The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: lizto on May 28, 2012, 09:23:30 pm
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Newbie sheep keeper with very small flock (2 ewes!) here. Shearer coming a week today. Should I then use a product like clix as a preventative? And does anyone know how I can buy a suitably small quantity? Thanks.
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I use Crovect. Try a local farmer - I think it all comes in big packs.
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See this current thread - about three down from yours in the Sheep section
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=24278.0 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=24278.0)
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My local agri-store only stocked the big containers but ordered the smallest size available for me. Only took a couple of days.
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I think the smallest size of Crovect is about 0.8 l and last time I looked cost around £12 I think. Is that about right inthehills? You need to apply it several times in the year and it will last for at least 2 years, especially if you make sure you get one with a long sell-by date, so it is not as uneconomical as it at first seems. You might be able to find another smallholder who will share the pot with you, but I would find that too much of a nuisance - it would be bound to be at the other person's farm when I wanted to use it ;D It doesn't become ineffective on the precise sell-by date either.... :o
When you are choosing which product to buy you should consider various aspects, including the specific action of the product ie does it prevent maggots from hatching or does it kill them once they have hatched, or both, how frequently you have to apply it, the withdrawal time for meat, the effect on the environment and the possible effect on the operator.
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If you have the shearer coming soon, I consider it slight bad manners to douse em in clik, given how nasty it is. Try Clickzin or crovect.
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I've clik'd my 3 lambs who obviously aren't for shearing but our shearer is booked in for Friday so the adults are dagged and sitting it out till their haircut!
I was told that you don't need to clik/crovect etc for a few weeks after shearing as the risk of them succumming to strike is so greatly reduced? what's others views?
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I think it's more that a newly machine clipped sheep has no wool for the product to stick to ;D as well as being easier to check for signs of strike. But if you have one with a mucky backside then it can be struck however much fleece there is :sheep:
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I use Crovect. Try a local farmer - I think it all comes in big packs.
I'm not happy about the 'ask a local farmer' route. For one thing, it's annoying for said farmer to have smallholders pestering them for dribs and drabs of this and that medicine when they are trying to get on with their days work.
Then there is the fact that there are good farmers and also bad farmers, as far as medicines and storing them goes.
Then there are 'the rules' - this is the bit I'm not sure about, but because you have to record meds used in your record book, you need to know the batch number, supplier and expiry date of the product you are using. You could get that from your tame 'farmer', but you also have to keep all used and expired medicine bottles to be seen when you get an inspection. So if you've just cadged a bit you won't be able to keep your records accurately.
Then there is the responsibilty that a vet has as the supplier of meds to livestock keepers. They have their own records to keep and could be in trouble if stuff they have supplied to one person turns up being used by someone else.
The only time we have shared a product with someone, we did so with the vets knowledge and they could record that the bottle was split between two breeders.
Maybe I'm being picky here, or anally retentive or whatever, but I prefer to get my meds from the vet, with the backup and advice they provide, and along the way I help to keep them in business.
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I use Crovect. Try a local farmer - I think it all comes in big packs.
Then there is the fact that there are good farmers and also bad farmers, as far as medicines and storing them goes.
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Yep - last week I went to watch a hill farmer friend of my neighbour's dag and to see what meds he was dosing with and heard my neighbour (in welsh) questioning his use of one with 'isnt that for cattle?' reply - yes but it should be allright'.....
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Guys - remember there's more than one farmer on here, please!
In my experience, most farmers - not some, most - really care about the health of their livestock. Some of them also care about things like mental wellbeing, as I know that many smallholders do, but the majority take great pride in producing good quality, healthy stock.
Because of this, most farmers would much rather supply their neighbouring small-scale farm / smallholding with appropriate meds and even help in using them, rather than have said neighbour's stock suffer - and potentially pass on any ailments through the fences.
I know there are exceptions, and because most 'proper' farmers have a lot of livestock, the consequences of getting it wrong can be horrendous and are often newsworthy. There are also smallholders who fail to look after their stock appropriately, often through ignorance, sometimes because it's actually quite hard to get hold of small quantities of appropriate meds, and sometimes through negligence. There's even a thread on here right now about how it could be better policed.
FW is of course correct that it is always best to go through your vet - assuming that your vet has appropriate competence in the livestock in question, which is not always the case for smallholders and small farmers; sometimes there simply isn't an available agricultural vet nearby.
Yep - last week I went to watch a hill farmer friend of my neighbour's dag and to see what meds he was dosing with and heard my neighbour (in welsh) questioning his use of one with 'isnt that for cattle?' reply - yes but it should be allright'.....
Without hearing the hillfarmer's version of that story, we can't be sure that it wasn't the hillfarmer's vet that had told him it would be ok - goatkeepers on here will be well aware of there being many meds that are actually not licensed for goats but which the vet can be authorised to be used for goats. Similarly, our vet will advise us if we can use up any spare cattle meds on sheep, which could be what had happened here.
Please don't jump to conclusions that all farmers are likely to be bad. Most of us are genuine, care about our stock, our land - and our neighbours.
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Sorry Sally - and I am really glad there are proper and experienced farmers on here like you :bouquet: .. and I have made friends with some good farmers nearby who's opinion I value
- but I am imediately surrounded by real old rogues, who I cant help talking about as a cautionary tale in support of FW's advice! I am pretty sure that from the look on my experiened farmer neighbour's face that the remains in the old dirty bottle of cow mediaction was not OK! (And the fact that he declined to have his sheep dosed ;) ). I guess it boils down to listen to everyone, but then choose carefully. Thanks again for all your wisdom, and sorry again for any hurt caused, Fi xx
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Nicely put, FiB, no offence taken! :-*
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Yes, FW, that is the size of Crovect. Hubbie collected and paid for it at the same time as feeds so not sure of the price off the top of my head. Can I just ask ...... do you have to keep EMPTY/ OUT OF DATE medicine containers and bottles or have I misunderstood ??? Keep receipts/batch nos/dosage details but not bottles :o In fact I was wondering how to dispose of last years Crovect safely ??? .
When it comes to most medicines I have to agree with FW that our local vet is very good and will measure out exact dosage of wormers etc. for my small flock and cheaper doing it that way than buying big containers from the agri-store. Interesting though that when I went to buy Heptavac they said that the bottle contained more doses than I needed and could I get a bit off a local farmer. ;D
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Yes, FW, that is the size of Crovect. Hubbie collected and paid for it at the same time as feeds so not sure of the price off the top of my head. Can I just ask ...... do you have to keep EMPTY/ OUT OF DATE medicine containers and bottles or have I misunderstood ??? Keep receipts/batch nos/dosage details but not bottles :o In fact I was wondering how to dispose of last years Crovect safely ??? .
When it comes to most medicines I have to agree with FW that our local vet is very good and will measure out exact dosage of wormers etc. for my small flock and cheaper doing it that way than buying big containers from the agri-store. Interesting though that when I went to buy Heptavac they said that the bottle contained more doses than I needed and could I get a bit off a local farmer. ;D
I dont think you are expected to keep old meds/bottles. you just need to dispose of them properly or all our cupboards would be full of old med containers...
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As I understand it you are supposed to keep all empty bottles etc for a set period - two years? This is in case of disease presumably, or contaminated med batches, when the actual stuff can be tested. I think it is inviting disaster to have old and half used bottles hanging around so I am going to dispose of mine whenever they are replaced with new. No-one has ever asked to see my old bottles ::) Maybe I've got it wrong and I will be done for having old meds hanging around ;D
Hi Sally, please don't take offence when I mention that SOME farmers are bad at storing meds :bouquet: - I did say that some are good. As with people everywhere, some are bad, some are good; some smallholders are bad, some are good. Some farmers don't mind in the least being asked for medicines to treat their neighbours animals, for the reasons you give, but others find it can wear a bit thin treating someone else's animals when many meds cost a fair bit. Certainly if someone with just a few animals has a kindly neighbour who is happy to treat their stock in with their own, then they are lucky to have such a person. But to EXPECT 'a local farmer', whoever the lucky chap may be, to provide meds for you has to be wrong, or at least thoughtless. As for poor storage - well, maybe it's because I spent my working life nursing in hospitals but I have seen some sights on farms which have made my hair stand on end - and I include smallholdings in with 'farms' :o So for me, being independant where meds are concerned is a principle I stick by, and I wanted to put the alternative view to 'ask a local farmer'
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Hi Sally, please don't take offence
Never! :-* :wave:
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Hi Sally, please don't take offence
Never! :-* :wave:
8) :thumbsup: 8)
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The companys that make benches and stuff out of wrap do a collection for plastic worming containers etc,
I think theres alot of meds out there, and usually POMs at that, that do cross species, its not a bad thing, as long as you know what you are doing and are taught properly, even vets take a step beyond sometimes....
We keep our meds either in the fridge or in Bs big shed :)
I dont think your supposed to share meds are you?