The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: P6te on May 27, 2012, 01:58:33 pm
-
Following on from my previous post (re http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=23757.0) our sow is NOT pregnant (that’s another story and something we are going to peruse). However, whilst we resolve that we now have a run taken up and I'm looking to move pigs around.
I am proposing to put Elsie (the not pregnant sow) who is 3 years old in a run with Shallot (11 month Gilt) - both are OSB's. They have been in adjacent runs separated by pig netting for 3 weeks. The question is, should we be ok to put them together or will they fight?
Many thanks
Pete
-
Sorry to hear about Elsie.
You should be fine to put them together. They will probably have a bit of an 'off', but will soon settle down.
Good luck, let us know how you get on.
-
Thank you Julie,
I was hoping and expecting that answer.
We are not at all happy with the people we purchased Elsie off, they are ignoring phone calls probably thinking it will 'go away' - but it won't! (they are not on TAS to my knowledge).
Pete
-
If you can put them together on neutral ground rather than one into the pen with the other. They will fight, it can be really nasty so be prepared, you can't and shouldn't try to stop them! If it doesn't settle after an hour or so or ones left out of the arc, let us know and I'll share some tips, you could throw a bucket of soapy water over each one just before they meet, if they smell the same it can help, good luck hopefully they'll be fine though. :pig:
-
Thank you for the advise ...
Unfortunately I don't have any neutral ground available.
I'll give them a few more days and put then together when I'll have more time to observe .. and probably mid morning (after morning feed and well before evening feed) - unless advised otherwise!
Pete
-
Hi Pete,
I usually move my pigs at feeding time. Feed in seperate trogs away from each other and it gives them something else to think about I very rarely get any fighting when swapping pens around.Good luck. :thumbsup:
-
miss out the previous feed then feed together there will be a skirmish but will settle down with them being adjacent to each other they may well be alright
not much you can do with the seller unless you have a written receipt :farmer:
-
not yet a pig keeper, but its good to have read how you have managed looking after this pig, so shes not pregnant, but she will be next time im sure, just wanted to say well done on a good example of pig keeper-ing.
-
As always, THANK YOU ALL for your replies. I'll let you know how we get on, probably towards the end of the week.
Regarding the 'not pregnant sow', we have the pedigree paperwork for her with the sellers details and we have their advertisement advertising 'Pregnant Pedigree Oxford Sand and Black Sow ...' with their name clearly displayed and we have emails from the owner or of the boar she was with in January so with any luck we have a strong case. Time will tell .... and I'll let you know once resolved. If not resolved amicably in the next couple of days we will get a vets report such that we can prove not only that she isn't pregnant but also that she wasn't pregnant and we'll go through the small claims court.
Any advice on any aspect always welcome ...
Pete
-
good luck with your claim you will need it
if pigs are ill they can reabsorb the foetus your pig was ill after you bought it a very difficult one to determine :farmer:
-
I agree move them at feeding time, also if one is more dominant than the other put her in with the less dominant, so it's not her territory. When was the sow due to farrow? Are you sure she's not Inpig? If so how? She may have not taken til 3 weeks later? You don't want to be mixing her with another if there's still a chance of piglets. Does she lie for a belly rub? It's a good time to check for piglets.
-
I agree with Robert - sometimes, pigs just abort and reabsorb. There's nothing to say she wasn't pregnant and something's happened. Our Berkshire was served by a (fully operational) Large Black boar, missed 2 seasons and bang, had a season 9 weeks post service :( She hadn't been ill, moved, stressed etc - so sometimes it can happen (nothing's certain with livestock ;) )
If you're CERTAIN she's not in-pig, I'd mix them at the evening feed (less time to fight you see ;) ) and give them both a spray of something strong smelling (body spray or TCP are my usual choices) the theory behind this is they'll both smell the same and be more likely to accept the other. You HAVE to give them plenty of space though, because the loser needs flight space - if she feels trapped, she'll keep fighting back or the other will persue her because she's not able to back off to a reasonable distance and it could get quite nasty :-\
HTH
Karen :wave:
-
What makes you certain she is not in pig. I would leave her for another 3 weeks atleast to see if she produces. You will learn that just because the boar was seen serving her it could have been her next season before he caught her but no one saw the deed being done. :thumbsup:
-
Good luck mixing your sows. As others have said, give as much space as possible (better to give neutral ground, but I understand that's not possible). I'd try and mix at late afternoon/evening feeding (whichever you do), so that darkness comes soon and hopefully calms the situation.
Plenty of food, widely spread, when you mix them. Inevitably, the newcomer will spend the evening outdoors, but they should be sorted by the next day - but still expect squabbling over food and spread widely to ensure both get their fair share.
One word of warning that you might not want to hear: I had my best sow (newly-weaned) killed by a heart attack brought on by an over-aggressive sow (later found she had polycystic ovaries). I used to accept initial sow squabbles as something that just happened, but would blow over. Now I stay with the sows until I'm absolutely sure they are settled. Good luck, Liz
-
Hi .... back on line ....
The information we were given was that Elsie was with the boar from Jan 12th till Feb 3rd and the deed was seen to have been done on Jan 27th.
The reason we do not think she is pregnant (other than the fact that she is a week late now) is that last weekend (when we believed due date was imminent) we observed her nether region more relaxed / swollen & pink than normal and we thought that was an indication that she was about to farrow (remember Elsie would have been the first pig we had farrowing) and at the same time a 20 week old OSB boar in the adjacent run was extremely 'interested' in her - and she in him!
Since then she has returned to 'normal' and we are now convinced that she was in season. Furthermore a friend who has a lifetime of farming knowledge / experience has looked at her and does not consider she looks pregnant. Their is absolutely no indication of her udder remotely looking as if milk is being produced and she does not 'look' pregnant.
Tomorrow I will take some photographs of her and post them for you all to see ....
Pete
-
Thanks Liz .... was writing whilst you posted your reply.
Pete
-
Here are photos of Elsie taken this morning ....
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/P6te/SouthDerbyshire-20120528-00248.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/P6te/SouthDerbyshire-20120528-00247.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/P6te/SouthDerbyshire-20120528-00246.jpg)
so ... pregnant or not pregnant??
-
Did you buy her as an in-pig gilt or sow ?
It looks (to me) like she's got the udder of a sow ?
I notice with mine that they get a definate diagonal line down the side of them (you might be able to see it in these photos - the pig in the background is the one who was pregnant (both sows)
3rd February would give you a date of Friday past, assuming 116 days - it's not impossible that she'll go 120 days ;) So I would hang off just a few days more before mixing, though I'd expect her vulva to be a bit more puffy if farrowing was imminent :-\
Do you have a vet or a local sheep farmer with a doppler probe, you can check using that to see if she is or not - or hang on just another week before mixing her........just to be on the safe side :thumbsup:
HTH
Karen
-
Thank you Karen .... we bought her as an in pig sow. She had her first litter (a litter of 6 we were informed) last year. I will certainly wait until the end of this week before mixing her.
Pete
-
Hi Pete,
agree with Karen about giving her a bit longer but must admit she doesn't look pregnant, difficult to tell in photos but she is certainly not round as you would expect.
It does sound like she came into season especially as the boar was taking an interest. At least you now know when her next season will be and you can put her in with the boar. :wave:
-
That's strange - my book says service on 3 February equates with farrowing on 29 May (this coming Tuesday, not last Friday). However this year the tables have to be adjusted by one day for a leap year, so I reckon the correct day should have been today, Monday 28 May - Tamsaddle
-
Hi Tamsaddle,
3rd of February is the date (we were told) she was take away from the boar, its the 27th January we were told the deed was done.
Pete
-
it does not look like anything has suckeled on her
i have my doubts as to it being 100% osb but that is just from the pics and pics only give an indication
some pigs are just not fertile and many a good boar has been dispached because the sow is not holding and it works the other way as well :farmer:
-
That's strange - my book says service on 3 February equates with farrowing on 29 May (this coming Tuesday, not last Friday). However this year the tables have to be adjusted by one day for a leap year, so I reckon the correct day should have been today, Monday 28 May - Tamsaddle
Duh, yes :-[
I counted 16 weeks from 3rd Feb - assumed Friday and added 4 days thinking that 16 weeks was exactly 116 days ::) It's not - it's 112 :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:
-
In the pics you show of her she doesn't look very pregnant to be due in a few days time. However i have a sow (big girl) who never really shows until the last fortnight when things start to drop. If she were due to drop this week i would have expected her back end to be more swollen and slackening off and for her undercarriage to be very visible drooping. I would be tempted to put her near to the boar not necessarily in with him and see if he comes sniffing.
HTh
mandy :pig:
-
No obvious signs to me either, but if the latest mating date was 3rd feb that would give a due date of 29 may, then allowing for a week late I'd rather be safe than sorry, and keep her alone for another week, then instead of putting her in with the sow put her in with the boar, as if it was a heat last week, then you'll be in time to catch her next one.
Agree with Liz, not all sows just cat fight and get over it, I've got 2 that literally hate each other, it never settles and I no longer attempt to put them together! But mostly once a pecking order is established the dust settles.
-
Thanks Dixie,
She will certainly be on her own for a bit longer at least but their really is absolutely no sign whatsoever of her being pregnant. She does (sometimes) lie for a belly rub but again no sign of piglets ... we really have written off any idea of her being pregnant now.
Regarding putting her in with the boar, our 'boar' is still only 19 weeks so we have quite a few months to wait until he is anything approaching big enough for Elsie!!
Our thinking at the moment is now we have her, and previous owner will not take her back, we will look to get her in better shape (loose a few pounds) and then try AI now DeerPark have OSB. We won't wait too long, if she really does not take then it would have to be a differnet course of action ....
Many thanks to EVERYONE who has replied to this ...
Pete
-
Following on from my previous post (re http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=23757.0) our sow is NOT pregnant (that’s another story and something we are going to peruse). However, whilst we resolve that we now have a run taken up and I'm looking to move pigs around.
I am proposing to put Elsie (the not pregnant sow) who is 3 years old in a run with Shallot (11 month Gilt) - both are OSB's. They have been in adjacent runs separated by pig netting for 3 weeks. The question is, should we be ok to put them together or will they fight?
Many thanks
Pete
If they weigh much the same and appear to be much the same size...... then yes. make sure you have some feed in the pen when you do it short of that a dose of Stresnil or some cans of beer will settle the nerves send them to sleep and they will wake the best of friends..
-
Thank you ... Elsie (right) is a bit bigger than Shallot, the photo was taken soon after they first 'met. Beer sounds a good idea ... one last thing I have thought of, would I be right in saying it is best not to introduce them when one is in / coming into season? (Shallot is due in a few days).
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/P6te/SouthDerbyshire-20120511-00226.jpg)
-
if shallot is due in season she might bring Elsie on too but they will fight as Elsie being bigger and older will want to be boss, be ready with the wound powder as there'll be skin hair and handbags for a few hours, best do it at feeding time and make sure big enuff area for shallot to get out of way will probably refuse to sleep together initially but hopefully will settle soon.
Mandy :pig:
ps saying that i have two sows who hate each other have done since they were gilts and under no circumstances will they go together.
-
Following on from my previous post (re http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=23757.0) our sow is NOT pregnant (that’s another story and something we are going to peruse). However, whilst we resolve that we now have a run taken up and I'm looking to move pigs around.
I am proposing to put Elsie (the not pregnant sow) who is 3 years old in a run with Shallot (11 month Gilt) - both are OSB's. They have been in adjacent runs separated by pig netting for 3 weeks. The question is, should we be ok to put them together or will they fight?
Many thanks
Pete
They will have a little bit of a spat......but if they are of similar size and weight then it will be minimal. Stresnil given to both will make then lay down for a sleep and they will be mates when they wake up Short of that dose their feed up with a few cans of beer as it has the same effect.