The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: plumseverywhere on May 20, 2012, 12:07:42 pm
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Hello
I grew up with GSD's and then worked with a breeder for a few years as a teen (w/end and holiday job in boarding and breeding kennels!) but my first love is Border Collies. I've never owned one and wondered if you could give me some pointers as we are months/years away from actually having a dog of our own currently.
With the sad realisation that cats are not safe living in our home due to the road I want to think ahead. We still have Snowball, our siameseX so I wouldnt' want to drive her away by bringing in a new pet now and obviously want to be well informed so that any decisions we make will be good ones re: new dog.
We do have a small flock of sheep and yes it would be handy to have a dog that could work with them but that's not the main reason for my liking the collies. I have children too so that is a consideration and would quite possibly mean extra research into making sure we buy from the right breeding lines for temperament - am I right?
I have also been told that some dogs are quite good for helping with rat/mouse control?! with the lack of cats that we will have in the future, this would be useful! I didn't want to go with a terrier though in case a little dog could get through small gaps in hedges etc onto *that* horrible road.
Sorry this is a bit ofa muddled post, it is early days and with all things animal/smallholding I do trust the opinions from you all here as you are the voice of experience :) [size=78%] [/size]
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Compared with GSDs I find collies more sensitive, brighter and more 'obsessive-compulsive', having had both - I suppose more highly strung all round.
We've always had collies round kids, never had an issue. However, some collies can be snappy and a bit 'neurotic'. Plenty of exercise helps and they need something constructive to do. More exercise needed than a GSD despite the GSDs bigger size.
To be absolutely honest, much as I love my collies, if I was looking for a family pet I'd go for a gun dog, especially Labradors or retrievers. There's a reason they're as popular as they are. Not much good for working sheep though.
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if you want a good collie are you going to be a good trainer the dog is the environment that it is brought up with one reared in the house with all the noises and used to people and children will become a member of the family far more easily than one dragged out the kennel on viewing day
you are far to far away from us to get one from us all pups look cute resist that temptation to save them and give them a better home or lifestyle and dear ones are no better than cheaper ones
all dogs will bite when at the puppy nibbling stage just hold there mouth closed and say no hold them like this to they start to whinge they soon get the message my dog has never shown its teeth to us and it was trained this way
everybody says collies need exercise well ours are not exercised they get out to run about several times a day and none the worse for that
all dogs and any animal can go loopy at anytime sad to say that is the only thing that a buyer cant prevent the breeder can because they know the temperament of the animals they have but the cash register kicks in before there credibility :farmer:
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Thank you Jaykay and Robert. All interesting points which I have taken on board :)
we just took a wander around the local Dogs Trust - not for any reason other than I wanted to get a feel for how hubby and kids are feeling about a dog one day. TBH my husband is still not a 'dog person' and that was quite evident in the body language I could see in him all the way round - apart from when 4 small mastiff type pups all filed out into one run and he showed a glimmer of interest at the 'cute factor' but absolutely no sparks with the dogs I said anything about. I don't think we are going to be a dog owning family any time soon - it's almost like any dog living here would be resented by him, just my instinct there.
Having said that, he doesnt' really like goats or sheep either but will get involved if needed - then again, they live in the field and he doesn't have to share a home with them.
Shame you and I live so far apart Robert, would have been nice to have got a pup (if we were to) from someone on here who I've got to know over time.
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No harm in getting your thoughts in order, regardless of how things turn out with OH :)
The following points are my thoughts and experiences, I have one middle aged (working) collie and have had her nearly 18 months now. She's my first dog, but I do tend to read around a lot and "absorb" ideas from watching friends etc.
I'm incredibly lucky - she's so laid back I suspect she's "special" ;D this means she can be left at home without destroying anything, she travels pretty well, she's good with other dogs, her recall is 90-95% spot on, she is loving and cute...
Other collies are always on the go, can get obsessed very easily with a ball or a toy or other animals (sheep, livestock), or chasing cars, or chasing lights/shadows.
It's a fine line between genius and madness as they say.
Heaven for my dog would be trundling around at my heels all day, snuffling about in the field as I faff with a water trough etc, with some playtimes with other dogs.
I have used bite inhibition on friends' pups and it seemed to work - basically when the pup nips in play, you "yelp" then sulk - copying what a littermate would do. Takes a bit of time to sink in, but you're doing this while they're still babies.
My dog's very sensitive, so I am careful with my tone of voice, and I make sure not to stare her down. Any reprimand is a gruff "no", then a light and cheerful "come here then" / let's go do something fun. I'm not a bully, but I'm not a soft touch either. Gentle insistence on things like giving her pills or trimming her claws - a bit parental if you like.
Other dogs will cheerfully put up with you screaming blue murder while they eat a rotten fox corpse ::)
Obvious things I didn't necessarily think of:
Make sure you can carry and lift your dog, or have reliable help on hand. God forbid something happens to them and you need to get them off your field and to the vet, into the car, etc. Worth practising so they're not too wriggly.
Days out, visits to relatives etc - can you take the dog? Can you leave them safely in the car? Is it too hot/cold for that? Just needs some negotiation and planning. My girl is scared of strangers, so "babysitting" doesn't really work out.
Public transport - rules vary, and dog might be terrified (mine hid behind my knees - her default setting).
Poo - lovely thought! But at least one deposit a day, that's a lot of poo bags in landfill, or can you set up a dog poo wormery....think about fencing them out of your fruit/veg patch, but then they'll poo on your garden path just in time for the postman.... Bitches' urine kills grass too.
As a farmy-outdoorsy type you'll be used to mud, muck and hair, but it's worth repeating. I can take my boots off at the door, but no matter how long I shut her in the kitchen to dry off, she always finds something to smear along the hallway ::)
Hope that's a little helpful!
(I can't believe how short a time I've had her, but she's with me for good now)
EDIT - there are "bargains" out there. I got an incredible "deal" for a working dog because it was a gamble due to her shyness etc. Don't discount a dog with issues - they may not even *be* issues for you if you're a good match. Same applies to rescue dogs etc :)
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Having been A German Shepherd owner in the past and now we have Rascal the Border Collie. He is just over 9 months old, very clever but is a sensitive soul. Good with our grandchildren but very wary of strangers. He is ok with our other animals even the chickens. He is out with me most of the time I am working outside but that is about all the exercise he gets.
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Yesterday, David my farmer friend came to inject my lambs. I was outside with Rascal who is all bark and carry on when anyone drives up but brave he is not. No matter how hard David tried to coax him over Rascal was having none of it. You would have thought the devil himself had come to visit. David was very taken with him saying he was a top dog. I asked his advice on training telling him what I had done so far. Seems I am on the right track but he mentioned that getting a good DVD on working dogs would be the best way to go. David and his wife spent yesterday getting in his sheep to inject his own lambs. Took all afternoon, my 2 just followed the dog and myself because that is what they have been used to.When i am working outside I have him with me, picking up droppings in the paddocks, cleaning out the hens, moving the lambs or bringing in the ponies. he is very quick to work out where I am going and keeps a close eye on me all the time. I feel were are forming a close bond.he is like my shadow. ;D
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Sounds like it's not an imminent purchase, good for you giving yourself plenty of time to research and plan. :thumbsup:
I don't want to be a killjoy, but my standard response to anyone wanting a collie for other than work is, "They're not pets. They're working dogs and they need to work." There are much better choices, for you and for the dog, for pets. Especially in a house with cats, children, and a non-dog person.
Having said all of which, if your heart is set on a collie, then try to find one that can't or won't work, has a good temperament and is ok living indoors. (Not all take to it.) Only thing is, in order to know it won't work, it'll be more-or-less grown up, since although some start to show interest in sheep at a very early age, some really good workers show no interest until 6 months old or later.
Whether you get one that wants to work sheep or not, any collie needs a lot of mental stimulation as well as physical exercise (maybe just being around robert is enough stimulation for robert's collies ;) ) - good alternatives to sheep work include obedience, agility, flyball and so on. Collie OCD can make a collie hard to manage at exciting pastimes like agility, (many agility collies and one Cani-X collie I know bite their owners in their excitement) but if you can crack that then you usually have a really good performer and you both have a heck of a lot of fun. :D
You mention not wanting a terrier in case it can squeeze out of the house and get onto the road. Well, collies are notoriously good at jumping out of, squeezing through and under - many farmers tell of a collie they simply can't keep away from work; as soon as the quad bike starts up, Houdini collie will be there in its seat. :D Skip is getting on a bit and is less flexible now, but it used to be amazing to watch him pour himself up and over and through a galvanised gate to get to the sheep.
Surprisingly, and possibly uniquely for such a thread on this forum, no-one has yet mentioned Barbara Sykes' Understanding Your Border Collie, but I would say if you are still keen on the idea then get yourself a copy and read it through. Then in six months, read it again. ;)
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Have never owned a collie. My father trained gondogs so I grew up around these and have kept them as an adult. I can only say that chatting with my neighbour who trains collies to a high standard/competes in trials he echoes Sallyinthenorths words. Told me that he would never sell a collie into a pet home unless maybe it was a dog that he felt did not have the instinct to work. He said that in his opinion they were not suitable as pets and he would be too worried about potential problems to put his dogs into family homes.He also told me that he has to be very careful that they dont get out as their instinct is to find sheep .... anyones sheep .... to work. Guess you would need good fencing as well as your hedge.
Chatting to a mum at school football event at the weekend. She told me her collie had bitten her daughter near her eye in the week.She had rung the vet to discuss the matter and the vet had told her that the farmer who had sold her the collie had behaved irresponsibly and they should not be in family homes with young children as they needed to be working. She thought the dog had been alarmed at the childs actions when playing and had nipped as it might nip a sheep. She had never shown any aggression before but is highly strung/sensitive.
As I say I have never owned a collie and maybe if you buy from certain breeders/lines you are more likely to get a dog that fits happily into a home with children. Just thought I would share a couple of things that I have heard recently. Can recommend a labrador!!!! ;) ;D
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We have two collies and Dan's folks have a collie x huntaway. They're all 12 ish - in fact Tess is 12 today. Much as I love them, I don't think we'll have another. It will be a "pet" breed next time.
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I think most working breeds can be a bit of a handful be it gun dog, sheep or police. it all depends if you understand how their brain works. Rascal has learnt that I am busy for a bit outside then have a rest before going onto another job. he is quite happy to lie at my feet and have some quite time. If I am having a day not doing a lot he goes into the back garden which is a fair size and just for the dogs. he has things to play with and can see me inside so seems happy enough. he does hate being indoors all day. The first thing I did was buy the Barbara Sykes book which I have read over and over. My dogs have to fit in with me not the other way around and so far i have never had a problem.
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I wonder if a collieX might be an option? depending on what the collie was crossed with it could have a bit of everything I would like? still considering options...(not the fact that I fell in love with 'Ben' a collieX at the dogs trust - honest ;) )
Like I say, so long as Snowball the cat is still with us there will not be a dog. I wouldnt' want to bring in a dog that might spook her away, having lost our 3 cats on the road in the last 3 years. All just thinking and I am really pleased that I posted this question as I have learnt so much and it has given me a great deal to think on.
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I don't agree that border collies don't make good pets, they just need good owners! They are perhaps not as bomb proof as say the retriever types but they can still live with children and families quite safely as long as you have the right dog for that situation. Not all collies are the same!! I would agree with reading the Barbara Sykes book first, and if you were to think about getting a rescue dog make sure that the rescue is a responsible one and they have made sure that the dog is family and stock friendly. http://www.fostbc.org.uk/ (http://www.fostbc.org.uk/) run by the aforementioned Barbara Sykes is one of the best ones and worth travelling to even if you are not close by.
Good for you that you are not doing this on impulse and investigating things first :thumbsup:
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i am with shep on this :farmer:
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Fantastic website, thanks Shep. Have had a look on there and will study it more closely later on too. I noticed a little old lady collie on the rehoming section, current owner has arthritis so couldnt' cope. I wondered if taking on an older collie who needs gentle exercise might be a good introduction, especially if they are checked out by such an organisation and we are a good match?
Saw a lovely collie walking with his owner at school run this morning, nudged hubby and said "see, men look good with collies..." - he said "look, I've not ruled anything out have I?!"
Not a total write off then ;) Plenty of time for me to research, weigh up pro's and con's and meet some collie's and their owners in the flesh though.
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older collies might not have been used to kids but you don't know until you try spend a few hours with them at the centres with your children and just observe
dogs do have feelings as well our first collie her mate was killed by mad Mary speeding with her car Sheba did miss him even after she had her pups and we kept one (spot)the epitome of a family collie
also an old man and his wife bought one of our pups he walked a 7 mile circuit every day in his home town aftyer he got the dog everybody talked to him before they walked on by
but as everybody else is saying you are doing the sensible thing by not rushing into it and if you go for a pup let it pick you :farmer:
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Such a shame you are so far away Robert! I actually don't know any BC breeders near us, I know the sheep farmer across the road has a collie and my heart skips a bit watching him work the dog, rounding up all the sheep - I love watching sheep dog trials on TV too (maybe its something from a former life!!)
That is sad about Sheba missing her mate, our cat is currently going through a similar state of grief after Tomsk was killed outside our house last Thursday.
thanks again everyone :)
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I wrote - and then lost, damn this new post editor! >:( - a long post about the three rescue collie-x dogs I've had.
In brief, I loved them all but two of the three were very difficult dogs to own; one had to be pts as he could not be made reliable around children. One was never reliable near sheep or geese, and would escape to bin-raid whenever he could. The other was a wonderful dog, but even he took many months of patient work to get him to cope with being left in the house, even with our other dog for company.
And - be warned ... one of the rescues was a rehome via the RSPCA. No mention of his serious issues with children or yellow dogs. >:( From what I've seen of the Dogs' Trust, they are extremely careful. But a breed-specific rescue charity would probably be the best with this type of dog.
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had the same with a peacock his mate was killed by a fox either a 2 legged one or four legs no feathers left he jumped of a high wall in front of the bus and the number of cats that have been killed by cars we don't let them out now :farmer:
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Bit of a risk rehoming sometimes then Sally? It sounds like we are dependent on good honest assessment by the centre :-\ Hopefully Dogs Trust are good (they are our only local rehoming place) but then I've heard mixed reviews. I guess they can't get it 100% right all the time :-\
One of the reasons I am holding off of buying a new dog now (apart from the fact Snowball needs to be considered highly in this, the cat that is) my youngest is only 5. She's never had a dog in her life and currently hates going to the local pub where a small JR terrier runs out yapping soon as you walk into the beer garden, I actually have to lift Scarlett up as she shakes. We have some friends with a yorkie and the owner and I spent a little while gently encouraging, but not pushing, Scarlett to have a little stroke of the Yorkie. After that, they shared a room and Scarlett forgot she was in there which was good. So I need to get her used to dogs more as that could upset the whole apple cart on day 1!
Did your peacock commit suicide in front of the bus Robert?
I wish Tony would let me keep snowball in, we've bickered about it so much this last few days. I want to keep her in with a litter tray, having had 3 killed in 3 years here I hate to say it but it almost feels like "not if, but when..." now and he says I'm just being too negative and need to try and not be so down...thing is, our 4 small children watched their beloved 13 year old ginger cat knocked down and killed Thursday, as they sat eating breakfast right in front of their eyes. I can't let them go through that again!
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yes he committed suicide
5 is maybe a bit small to be getting a collie especially as she is cautious around dogs but depends on what like she is with dogs some children just wind a dog up then it is the dogs fault
many years ago we had a rescue collie it just hated children the night it came to us it chewed its way out a shed and disappeared next day it reapeared at the house door growling and snapping and would not let us in the house we then found out it liked following the tractor and would run for miles after the tractor
the original owners children were bitten by her and the second owners children were bitten we ended up with her because we had no children and no other dogs rip Pepi knew the good ones from the bad :farmer:
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We had 3 GSD's while I grew up. Kimber was a gorgeous boy that we rehomed. One day when I was about 7, we were on a walk when a man of African descent carrying a rolled up newspaper walked past, Kimber attacked him. My parents were devastated as up till now this was the dog that I used to rest my head on while I watched TV but they couldnt' take the risk. Transpired that he had been kept by a man fitting this ones description who used to beat him with a rolled up paper - no one had told mum and dad this. They had him collected same day but told me that the "nice man was just taking Kimber for a walk..." I remember sitting by the front door waiting for hours for the nice man to return him :'( 2 lessons there - find out the truth when you rehome a dog and don't lie to your children even if you think you are protecting them, it hurts like hell when they realise the truth.
Then there was Kleiner, another rehomed GSD - bit me on the 2nd night he lived with us. I was about 9, gone to the kitchen for a glass of water and he caught my hand, drew blood dad pulled him off. He had to go too as they didn't want to risk it.
Dog 3 was Minder (yep, named after THAT series!! it was the 1980's by now ;) ) much research by Dad, found a breeder some miles away, visited both mum and dad, visited the litter a few times. Dad let this little dog puppy choose us. He lived happily till he was in his teens and had to be PTS. Broke dad's heart [size=78%]that one did. I guess this is partly why I am takign the research so seriously![/size]
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An older one, that has been checked out by someone as knowledgeable as Barbara Sykes, would be a very good place to start I think. Especially if it's lived happily with kids before. It would be calmer round your little one, less scary than a bouncy youngster.
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Think you need to be very careful if you have such young children, Plums.
We considered a dog from a rescue but decided against it because we felt it was a less certain way of getting a dog that fitted into family life than getting a puppy. I am sure it can work but you would need to be really careful in your choice.
Again, sure collies can be kept in homes with young children but it maybe that some other breeds are more suitable - if it is a house dog/pet that you want. If you want a dog to work then that is a different matter. I suppose you need to work out which is more important to you and what fits in with your way of life. A nervous/highly strung/sensitive dog of whatever breed, is perhaps not a good idea around young children. These dogs may not behave in a very predictable manner when faced with the movements/noise and activity of young children. Of couse there are always exceptions and good selection, knowledge, understanding of the breed and training can all help. Some breeds will perhaps require more work/time and commitment than others.
I agree with Sabrina that many working breeds do require you to understand them and work with their natural instincts and some breeds of gundog are not easy. I have a Flat-coated Retriever and though I grew up with them , kept them as an adult and love them I wouldnt necessarily recommend them to people as they can be more difficult to control than other breeds and always on the go.
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Thanks In the Hills, I totally understand what you are saying :)
I'm wondering if a collie crossed with something like a lab for example (with a reputation for being calmer) from a puppy, might be the way forward.
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we had one of those dogs his previous owner was going to be a new dad and they were not wanting to take the chance of the dog getting jealous he was just a big softy pure black brainless and if he got away always looking for his Nat king Cole :farmer:
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I have 3 borders and all are different.
2 are from a pedigree show line and the third my youngest is from a working farm and boy can you tell the difference.
The oldest is now 8 and she was my first dog since i had left home,i had always wanted a border but my parents always had labs and said no! me and my oh were living in a rented house whilst looking for a smallholding he had 4 very young children 3,5,7 and 9 that stayed with us every weekend,we found a local ish breeder who was well known and recommended for her help and advice,when we first went to see the breeder she had no puppies at that time but had some due soon we had to wait a month before they were born,we went to see the pups at 2 weeks old and choose ours and then we went back every couple of weeks to see her until we brought her home,cassie lived in the house for the first year until we moved to our smallholding but there were rules she was only aloud in the kitchen and had a cage witch was her safe place if she wanted to be on her own,the children new never to go in to the cage to speak to her they were aloud to call her out and if she wanted to come out then fine but if she didnt then leave her alone,they were never aloud to feed her or go near her whilst she was having her dinner.
Once we moved cassie would not come in the house and has lived outdoors every since, when she had her pups i made her come in as it was winter every time the front door opened she jumped out the pen and shot out the front door,she just found it to hot inside,i kept 1 of the pups her daughter who is now 5,spangles is more like her dad completely different to her mum.
Then the 3rd well she was from a working farm and is a complete nutter so very different to the other 2,she has the working gene which showed up very early on,will herd anything that moves, geese , chickens,ducks she couldn't get to the sheep but as she got older now shes 18 months
she easily jumps any fence to get in with the sheep seen her clear 5ft no probs, latest trick is jumping through the 5 bar gate, as its there i now take her for sheep dog training once a fortnight and in August i will be getting some of the sheep we have been training with so i can do a bit each day with her to keep her stimulated.
The other 2 have no desire what so ever to herd luckily.
So what i was trying to say in my long winded post was if i was you i would think about a show line not guaranteed but you might find a pup that is less of a handful like mine and is less likely to herd.
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Dont know much about first crosses - know they are popular these days. Lady whos collie had bitten the little girl, also has a collie x springer spaniel. She said that dog was very friendly and more confident/outgoing than the collie. Very lively and busy though.
I love to watch my neighbour work his collies too, so know what you mean. He was showing me his Welsh Collie the other day. He was a lovely looking dog. Some of his collies appear quite friendly. I looked after one of his bitches with a litter of pups last year and she was super but others are not sociable and I wouldnt trust my children with them.He says they can be tempramental.
If you are not in a rush, could you visit some breeders of different pure breeds. Give you some ideas. When my sisters old lab. died she decided she would like to try a different breed. She had always liked Beagles but after visiting a person that exhibited and bred these she decided for various reasons not to go ahead. Think good breeders would be happy for you to do that.
Robert - would you have another? ;) ;D
Few people have fussed our lad and said they had owned one but found them too active and parted with them. Our lad is very clever and as soft as soft can be. As far as you can trust any dog I would trust him - a great friend for the children and always ready to play. Very boisterous though and a handful. ;D
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if it is the collie cross i would not have one near me lab x collie
we have three collies and a 4 week old pup and at present have my sons Alaskan malamute staying here
now colmutes would be interesting although my collie (spot )has a curly tail like the malamute and Zara the collie pup has a curly tail and all collie in the breeding :farmer:
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I hate to say it Lisa, but the only dogs who have ever bitten me (twice in my whole life) were Collies :-\ Once as a kid and one more recently. I would be tempted to go for something slightly less neurotic ;) and easier round the kids - Bedlington terriers are cute ;D but my GSD is just great with the kids and pigs (but, ahem, not chickens ::) )
Karen :wave:
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We got Molly and Meg from Robert and Lillian a year ago and they are great collies, friendly loving and intelligent. They did not really even nibble people as pups and though we do not have children living here have been great with kids even allowing kids to put them in doll's prams when little. they stay in the kitchen at night otherwise run round the garden by day - they never seem to chew when in the kitchen - you can leave slippers etc - though will snaffle a sandwich if they get a chance. But they do chew things in the garden if they get hold of them eg gloves left down. I think they might be good sheep workers and i cannot wait to try this out. I had not really tried it before but the chickens got into the garden yesterday and they were rounding up the chickens like old hands and working automatically as a 2 dog team - i was trying to get them used to the come by/away calls and I made Molly come to me then she did a lovely outrun on the away side. Great fun. I read Barbara Sykes' Understanding Border Collies before I got them and since, and it makes a lot of sense and is practically useful very often. If you could somehow organise it I would definitely recommend getting a dog from Robert and Lillian!
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Ah believe me, I've been working out the possible routes from Worcestershire to Scotland SImon! ;)
Oh Karen, that's made me think of Tony's reason for his reticence. Working for NFU mutual he obviously visits hundreds of farms, He's been nipped on the ankle a few times and because of being on a farm the most likely dog to be there is a collie, therefore in his mind now ALL collies bite so he's not going to be easy to disuade otherwise ;) I guess I'm in the opposite boat to you in that the only dogs I've been bitten by are GSD's and when I was working in boarding kennels I had a few nips from little terrier/chihaua sized pooches. To be fair, the owners were often highly strung at leaving their 'babies' and I'm sure this passes onto the dog! [size=78%] [/size]
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Mmmmm ... interesting.
Yeah, grew up with gundogs and my dad having other peoples dogs in to train. Only dog ever to bite me was a collie at an agility class where I took my Flattie for a while.Came from nowhere and bit through my jeans ..... hard enough to puncture skin.
A friend had a collie, living as a family pet and watched that growl and snarl at her as she tried to get it to leave the room. She wasnt worried by it but I wouldnt feel comfortable with a dog in the house that showed that type of aggression.
If you are really keen maybe look at some from show/pet backgrounds and visit them at home with your children. You can see by a dogs body language/eyes if they are comfortable in situations eg. around children. As HHippy says, I think that many collies have a slightly neurotic tendency, though of course there will be many exceptions. I see it in my neighbours collies. Perhaps you could speak to a local vet about suitability.
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well i have been bitten by collies GSD and small terriers the gsd i think have been breed for better temperament either that or i am not near them now yes collies are sneaky the males come to the frontfor a clap and a stroke while the bitches come round the back to nip and run of and when i was small i was bitten by my own pet collie a vicious bastard of a dog its father was also a vicious dog and should not have been breed from that was in the very early sixty's
we have maybe been lucky with our present choice of dogs and also that the kids have also been good to them Grahame was 5 when we got Sheba loved a football but one of the most gentle dogs you could wish for sorted the kids out when fighting and never a days illness right up to the end yes collies have there own ways but don't we all it is just a bit of give and take :farmer:
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Yes, I agree Robert that all breeds are different and can be problematic in different ways. My Flat-Coat gets carried away and can be very boisterous and I wouldnt recommend a male Flat-Coat to people unless they were prepared to put in a lot of obedience work, exercise and wanted a dog that was there, ready for fun all the time.Know what you mean about terriers and yes its that sneaky/neurotic/sensitive side that would worry me about some collies as family pets, though I am sure that some are just lovely in that capacity. Its about the breed overall or the odds if you like of getting a collie that would fit the bill as a family dog.
Maybe also about your expectations of a family dog. Did your family keep the collie that bit you? I know that no dog can be trusted 100 per cent but in my opinion if a dog is sharing a family home with children you need to get as close to that as possible. I want a dog in my home that the children of course respect but a dog that they can touch when its eating,sleeping, whatever. Having said that, of course some collies will be like this and some individuals from other breeds known more to be pets will turn out to have less desirable temperaments. I suppose its about lessening the odds.
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yes they kept it but as an outside dog my grandfather on my mothers side was a Sheppard and never allowed dogs in the house and did not approve of pet dogs and it was not until my mother was given Pepi that she came round to having a dog in the house and also as a pet it is most unfortunate i had to wait nearly 50 years to get a dog of my own first with uist a mans dog then with spot his daughter and mother of all the good pups but i still think that born and brought up in the house handled by children make better pets and companions :farmer:
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Yes, that must help. Also good understanding/handling of particular breeds ..... whatever they may be. ;D Good luck, Plums.
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.....So what i was trying to say in my long winded post was if i was you i would think about a show line not guaranteed but you might find a pup that is less of a handful like mine and is less likely to herd.
Is it me or is that a sad state of affairs? Dogs winning prizes for best of their breed who aren't inclined to the job they were intended for? Anyway - don't want to start a whole new discussion!! I know what you are saying Piggy and I agree - I know a lot of lovely show types with nice temperaments, but have also heard of not so well bred ones with temperament issues (and the same lines still being bred from ::) ). As you rightly say - no guarantees. I know lots of lovely working types with excellent temperaments and some which personally would have gone on a one way trip to the vets! All you can do is investigate the parents and breeder as much as you can.
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Sadly roads kill dogs too. Weve had two killed one infront of thethen young children. Weve had a dog of one sort or another (all rescue dogs) since before the children. The last one died (Not on the road) not long before we came over here. It was going to be the first animal we got when we arrived...but it never happened. The only thing I miss one for is long walks. My OH cant manage them and I dont always want to ride out....going alone just doesnt feel right when Ive always had someone with me!.