The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: Tree Farmer on April 30, 2012, 10:28:06 am
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My goats have arrived... Rufus the AOV goaling wether, and Emma & Eve the two little AN kids. They are all LOVELY. I will upload some pics later.
They all seem to be settling in nicely. Rufus was wide eyed with astonishment when he first met the girls - it was a big afternoon for him, first time in a stock trailer, a new shed, then the arrival of two shouty long eared things. By day two though he seems much more settled. He has tried to butt them a little bit (there is no way I would leave them together when I'm not there) but isn't overly concerned with them, is eating well, no scouring etc. He seems fine!
The girls meanwhile seem very happy - lots of bleating, leaping and sitting on my lap. They love their bottles (three times a day) and seem very fond of Rufus and me - they are very interested and affectionate. And very chewy!
I have a couple of questions:
1. Where do I send the white copy of my movement forms to? It says local authority - does that mean my local council offices etc?
2. How soon and how quickly to wean the girls? They are on three bottles a day but are already eating lots of hay and straw, I have been putting a little tray of mix (Dodson & Horral - sp?) down for them to help themselves to, as their breeder was doing. In the last three days there interest in this has escalated and they are now eating what is there quite quickly. How much should I let them have? When do I reduce the milk?
3. Regarding 'going out', I am taking Rufus for walks between rain showers but would like to let them all have access to some grassy scrub land asap. I know I have to build Rufus up to this and have no idea how soon the girls can go out / for how long... any advice?
Thanks.. and am very happy!
Charlotte
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White sheet goes to your local Trading Standards Office
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How old are the kids.... I would keep them on milk as long as possible..... you might be able to cut it down to twice a day depending on age. It is essential to keep their growth rate unchecked at this stage.... they grow quite fast untilat least 6 months old and then starts to slow a little but you are aiming for them to be about 75% grown by the time they are 12 -14 mths old.
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Re going out onto grass - make sure they have had at least a couple of hours in-between a milk feed and going onto grass, and only if it is dry (the grass). Wet grass and milk make for really fast diarrhea and/or they blow on it.
Also - if they have not been out on grass with their previous breeder, but your boy has, make sure you worm him BEFORE you let him out onto your (clean, free of worms) grass. Worm him with an ivermectin type wormer (vet will give you either a drench or an injcetion), then keep inside for a few days, do a worm/faeces count (to make sure he is not harbouring any resistant worms) and if clean, he is safe to go out again. If the grils have already been out, same for them too.
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Congratulations on their arrival - have fun!
Our movement licence goes to Animal Health dept, or environmental Health dept. local council.
I would just ring your local council and ask, I think it should be sent in within a very short time frame.
We also have to register animals with our local council, and Defra.
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How old are the kids.... I would keep them on milk as long as possible..... you might be able to cut it down to twice a day depending on age. It is essential to keep their growth rate unchecked at this stage.... they grow quite fast untilat least 6 months old and then starts to slow a little but you are aiming for them to be about 75% grown by the time they are 12 -14 mths old.
That's interesting. When I bought Cloud, I looked on the BGS website for information on how much I should feed her. The advice was to cut down to two feeds a day from 9 weeks and to stop giving milk from 3 months. This seemed a bit young to me judging by how long my others suckled, so I'm still giving her 3 bottles a day. She is certainly ready for it and guzzles the lot down in less than a minute and a half. 'She also has hay, concentrates and green stuff.
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Is cutting milk down/out also governed by the size of the animal too? Our ram lambs this year were bottled and they were HUGE very quickly! we started to see signs of bloat in one in particular after his evening milk so made the decision to follow the pack and wean fair quickly.
I know my twin boys (goats) suckled from mum for ages though (they were about 8 months when they completely stopped)
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Yes size is quite important, if the milk is "free" I would give it as long as the kid wants it, usually just two bottles a day though from about 3 months onwards. But last year I weaned my kids by mid-July, as I was selling most of them and felt it was safer for their health to not go onto milk replacer, and the one I kept (also off milk from then on) is huge now, well very long legged...
But my kids from the year before, suckled on their dam until 10weeks, then put onto bottle for a few more, then they refused the milk, are quite a bit smaller than their mum... so it all depends...
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I thought I would carry on with three bottle a day for another couple of weeks. She's ten weeks old today. She has approx 26oz per feed.
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You can't really go wrong, as long as they also eat good amounts of hay and some kind of goat mix/lamb creep/calf mix or similar they will be fine and "tell" you when they do not want milk any more.
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For the older kid I would gradually reduce the quantity of milk from approx 500ml down to 300ml per feed.
There is a good reason for this....... the fourth stomach where the suckled milk goes to, starts to shrink as dry feed intake increases.... this is absolutely normal. So you don't want to stop this process so reduce the milk gradually and you will be simulating nature in the right way. The fourth stomach can quite comfotably cope with 300ml per feed by the time they are 3months as the rumen is now filling all the time with dry food.
After all, by bottle feeding we are trying to feed as close to nature as possible and prevent growth checks.
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I get mine onto hard feed as soon as they will take it - the 10 day old kids are already tucking into hay as well as their milk. I find that by 6 weeks, they are happy with just a night time bottle, as they are eating hard feed and hay by then and water of course, and are not bothered for the bottle. Which suits me just fine, both in time and cost of milk!!!!
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The BGS said they should have 825mls per feed so that is what I am giving (roughly). She guzzles the lot down.
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Well the two girls are six and seven weeks old and both very keen on their milk - 500ml per kid, each feed, three times a day. I have a limited supply of frozen goat's milk from nearby farm and am very gradually replacing with powdered milk (Lamb Lac I think it's called), upping the powdered to fresh ratio a little every couple of days. Am only mixing the Lamb Lac to 2/3 the suggested strength - this is what their breeder told me to do. They seem fine and happy. I leave about a handful each of dried mix for them morning and night and they go straight for it and don't bleat when I leave as they are happily munching :)
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I was given 2 (ex)male toggs, told to feed 3 x 500ml per day. I also feed a slightly lower strength mix, at 8 wk they are now down to 3 x 400ml, with part goat millk when the girls let me take some, but they leave a lot of their concentrates. They seem happy and bouncy!
I use 'Shepherdess' milk replacer, It's the only one the feed merchant had, but I've read that it expensive, how much is Lamlac? and is it as good?
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From personal experience, be VERY VERY careful when feeding 500ml plus to a kid that is more than 6wks old.
By now, the fourth stomach... where the milk goes directly... will have shrunk from its original birth size to about
two thirds, so cannot take this amount of fluid easily. You need this shrinkage to continue as the rumen expands to accomodate the increasing intake of roughage.
It is possible for the fourth stomach to BURST.....just like an over expanded balloon..... if it receives an excess of liquid.
Don't be a slave to books.... if the kid is growing, eating plenty, then it is OK. Just keep up smaller amounts of milk at each feed... I never feed more than 400ml per feed at any time....it is better to keep on with more feeds than overfeed at any one time.
The thing to consider is.... we are trying to replicate nature with bottle feeding.... no kid takes 500ml in one slurping !!!!!!!
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The Lamlac I got was £25.99 for 10kg - that was from Countrywide so sure it's available cheaper. They didn't have it in our nice local independent one though (Pioneer in Ledbury).
Thanks Wytsend for the heads up about quantities of milk etc - that makes complete sense.
From today I am reducing their feed to 400ml a time, I'll keep that up for a few days then go down a bit more.
Quick question re concentrate though - I am so anxious about overfeeding after what happened a few weeks ago that I am only giving them a handful or so in a little tray which has always gone by the time I get back. Should I be leaving more out, so it's there whenever they want some?
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I feed coarse calf mix....never Goat Mix, doesn't contain the correct minerals..... and add some chaff/dried grass to make it more fibrous.
You need to get Premium Goat Feed Balancer....... small tub 5kg....... sprinkle some onto the kids feed. The adults benefit higely from it. There arelots of people on TAS who use this Balancer and speak highly of it.
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I'll cut her milk down. I did wonder if I should as she eats quite a lot of coarse mix/sugar beet, hay and vegetables.
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Thanks Wytsend, I'll keep the quantity for the boys down as well, but they don't seem to like the coarse lamb mix OH brought, not the one I wanted, no calf mix there either.
'Shepherdess' milk replacer was about £22 for 10kg, so looking on the 'net it doesn't seem too bad a price.