The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: doganjo on April 19, 2012, 12:58:11 pm
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At the risk of being called a 'holier than thou' again, I have these questions for anyone wishing to breed with their bitch.
- Have you done all the health tests recommended for your breed/or combination of breed in the case of cross breeds or mongrels?
Has she been wormed?
Do you have people definitely wanting puppies from you?
Have you considered matching your bitch's pedigree to any intended mate for her (so that you have an idea what the pups inherited traits might be)?
Are your bitch and the sire registered with the Kennel Club or any other recognised body?
Have you taken into account that your bitch may need vet treatment if she has problems having the pups?
If you have thought of all these points then I wish you good luck in selling your pups.
I am sick and tired of having to repeat the fact that dogs are being destroyed - yes destroyed - unnecessarily because there are too many dogs in the country that nobody wants because they don't have the money to feed them or take them to the vet. Dogs are being tied up to fences in the countryside and left to die!
Some people are breeding a litter 'because I have a good working, nice tempered, pretty/handsome bitch/dog' Mongrels are being bred, puppy farms abound, back yard breeders think it 'would be good for the bitch' or might 'make some money for our holidays/repair the garage/paint the lounge.
I am NOT getting at anyone in particular but there are a lot of dogs out there being put down even though they are healthy - we just rescued a Brittany from a Council dog pound - they only keep them a week in England! Then they are destroyed, so why breed them fro that to happen! Really not getting at anyone specifically, believe me, I just feel extremely strongly about the poor souls that are being brought into this world on a whim just to be killed because they're no longer wanted!
Apologies to anyone offended by my rant, but I won't apologise for my own principles.
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I cant see how any right minded person who has been to a council rescue pound could possibly be offended by what you say..... :thumbsup:
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If you were not directing your views and opinions at anyome in particular, why reply to a specific post by starting another thread (which you informed us you had started in reply to an orignal post) standing on your soap box and preaching your views in such an agressive manner?
Correct me if I am wrong, but this is not the first time you have ranted and raved about this subject and received adverse feedback on it.
I have no doubt that you do indeed hold a wealth of knowledge, given your vast experiences with dog, however, that does not make it acceptable to preach to me about what is right and what is wrong regarding the breeding of dogs.
I would like to point out to you that I am a very conciencious dog owner, who's last two dogs have come from Rescue. FYI - I have recently been in touch with Rescue coordinators from various organisations asking them about breeding as I have been asked about my dog being used for stud in the past.
The original member simply asked for advise relating to his Springer Spaniel, who comes from working lines. I simply replied that my dog is a cracker, which he is BTW and yes , he is KC registered....
I have no issue with your comments, but I do have an issue with the way you put them across, capital letters and bold font etc.
My opinion is that people may be reluctant to ask for your well qualified advice given the manner in which you reply.
Your tone and style of writing only serves to alienate people and I for one would raise my eyebrow's and think " Here we go again"
I wouldn't expect you to apologies for your principles, tact is a trait what you may consider.......
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Yes, you are right. When I see an emaciated dog that has been left to die tied up to a gate post in the middle of the countryside, and my next door neighbour's son takes home a 5 week old pup on Boxing night that has been rescued from a snow drift, both of which bred on what I call a whim, I DO forget to have any tact. My apologies for my lack of tact. I'm a wysiwyg - no grey in my life only black and white.
I was not referring specifically to the forum member with the springer bitch, it just triggered my anger at irresponsible breeders so I also apologise if he/she took it that way - it was not so intended.
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You are indeed right to exercise your right to an opinion....maybe not fair to tar future potential breeders in the same boat as the irresponsible ones, however your life experiences will cause you to form certain opinions on certain subjects..
.I am well aware of, as are most users of this forum of your views on dog breeding and the issues you feel strongly about.
All I would say, is that it may detract from the joy some folks have of breeding their dogs, when your opinions get thrown at them, whether they ask for them or not........on another note, my grammer / spelling was shocking on that last post, and for this I apologise :thumbsup:
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Criticism is something one can avoid easily:
by saying nothing
doing nothing
and being nothing.
Aristotle
I don't live my life avoiding criticism either. And if people believe something strongly, as Annie does here, they should say it. Strongly. People can take it or leave it. But it's to be hoped that they consider it.
When you hear a view you don't immediately agree with there are two ways of thinking about it. 1. This person is an idiot - and dismiss the view 2. This person is sensible so there may well be a good reason for them believing what they do, I wonder what that reason is. And do I need to have a re-think. You (one) might decide you do, you might not, but either way you'll have thought - and that's never a bad thing.
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No problem re grammar etc - when I get incensed I forget about that too :thumbsup:
I'll try to restrain myself next time, or better still, not post at all on the dog forum at all, since everyone already knows my views ;D
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Ahhh, but then our world would be a little darker.... ;)
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Ahhh, but then our world would be a little darker.... ;)
??? ??? ;)
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Yep I've got people who've specifically asked me for puppies from my bitch
Yes she's KC registered
A mongrel is unlikely to be much use on a shoot or as a sheep dog
Your rant Doganjo was far less helpful than any advice you may have put forward
I do take exception to being lumped with people I could name who breed dogs purely as a business.
In my opinion if anyone has done harm to dogs it's those breeders for breeding faults in.
I won't be as keen to use the forum in future I can assure you.
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the thorny subject of breeding and it is not just dogs pigs can be lumped into this debate as well
getting buyers before you start to breed they disappear quicker than snow of a dyke in June just who is going to wait till somebody gets a breeding programme together the breeder will have buttons up the back of there head if they are depending on nature being predictable soooooo much can go wrong even before a pup or piglet is born and to weaning stage
vetting potential customers with the cost of fuel you would be cheaper not to breed in the first place and who says breeders are qualified as physcoligists it is only an opinion based on a snapshot of circumstances and location at the time of viewing
it surprises me the amount of people that expect and demand then take the hump when the wrong reply in there view is printed it would not do if we all thought the same and had the same desires
i am not a number i am a free man :o :farmer:
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It is not surprising that this subject raises passions.
I don't read Doganjo's post as being aggressive but I do read it as being about a topic that she cares about passionately.
And I share her views. Just under a year ago a friend bred his working lab. Hip scores done, sire carefully selected, FT champions galore on both sides, bitch with a good working reputation. Two pups didn't sell and a third was effectively dumped back on him after a marriage breakdown with the promise the dog would be collected within two weeks (three months ago). So out of a litter of eight four remain with him as he had retained a bitch for himself in any event and indeed that was part of the point of the litter in the first place, a young bitch to come on as a replacement for one of the older working dogs. To me that is a measure of the commitment required and an indication of what needs to be considered when breeding.
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I think Doganjo's subject applies to all animals.
Too many people end up breeding for the sake of it and it applies to pets and farm animals countrywide. So often i have to sort out sheep breeders who have bred their animals then can't get rid of the stock, or just look at the horse world, how often do we see an absolute basket case of a mare then the owner goes and puts it in foal!!!
I think thought should always be applied before breeding anything. ;)
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I dont think any dog breeding peeps on here should take offence at the OP's post.
It isnt specifically about anyone on here, other that being triggered by the topic of breeding coming up again, it is more a 'broadcast post' to everyone/others who read this forum, reads on here about people breeding dogs on here and then leap to the conclusion that its something they could or should do with their mutt.
Really I think anyone who breeds dogs should be able to tick all of the boxes and so shouldnt feel theres any sort of personal attack involved.
The only people who should be made uncomfortable or cross by it should be the casual and unthinking breeder who allows unplanned or planned litters to appear without having homes for the pups first.
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Just caught up with this post, ( and I apologise to Goldcraig for capitals!) but Doganjo you are VERY RIGHT TO SHOUT!!! and shout we must. The dog world in Britain is in absolute crisis. Hundreds of thousands (and that is NOT an exageration) of dogs are put down in the UK every year just because they are not wanted. Most of them will be quite lovely dogs with no issues - just not wanted. The recession has hit people hard and those moving into rented accommodation have had to hand their dogs into the pound, marriage breakups often lead to dogs handed or just thrown out, the cases go on. The rescues are ALL FULL!! Previously they would be able to take in dogs from homes who were to given up for whatever reason, but now they are just taking those whose time is up at the pound as their need is more urgent. (and they can only take a very small percentage of those :-( )
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One of the reason I did not breed my lovely German Shepherd Fallon but choose to have both her and Tanya spayed was not due to the fact that she was not a first class bitch but at that time when she was off breeding age our local P&J was full of pups. The local dog homes where out the door with unwanted puppies and adult dogs.Another reason was I knew in my heart that there would be people who may have wanted one of her pups that I would not like or trust to give it a good home. Fallon was a wonderful dog and there is not a day that goes by that we miss her. Tanya as most of you will know came to us as a rescue age 6 months a complete screwball. Could I live with that happening to anything I bred, no. The country is full of unwanted animals, why had to the list if you do not need to.
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In my view passion is different to aggression, people will not post if they receive such aggressive responses, I would rather people post and others give their views and suggest, as I am sure most people know how cruel it is to have unwanted animals of any sort, only a non animal loving person would breed without some thought previously. Know one learns by being shouted out, they just switch off and dig their feet in!!!! AND, there are also many owners of dogs, both pedigree and non pedigree that are indeed passionate about dogs, some even show them but have been publicly found to be very cruel to them!!! Agression just make people mad not change!
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This is so true Sandy.
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In my view passion is different to aggression, people will not post if they receive such aggressive responses, I would rather people post and others give their views and suggest, as I am sure most people know how cruel it is to have unwanted animals of any sort, only a non animal loving person would breed without some thought previously. Know one learns by being shouted out, they just switch off and dig their feet in!!!! AND, there are also many owners of dogs, both pedigree and non pedigree that are indeed passionate about dogs, some even show them but have been publicly found to be very cruel to them!!! Agression just make people mad not change!
"only a non animal loving person would breed without some thought previously" - I'm sorry to contradict again, but this is just not true, Sandy, as you well know. I am not agressive, I am passionate about the hundreds of dogs that are needlessly born and needlessly destroyed! That perhaps makes me seem aggressive to those who do not see things as I do.
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And I have no doubt that Sandy was thankful for the great advice you provided given that everyone has to start somewhere, and where better to start that accepting help from someone as who has your wealth of experience, so to me, your last post is a little condescending...BUT...we appear to be detracting from my original reply
it was not the content I had an issue with, rather the way you bulldozed in assuming that folks would not have given any thought to welfare or future consequences.
I now draw your attention to your "helpful" reply on the other post and ask you to look at the different feedback received, when your advice is exactly what the member is looking for, and not littered with your views and assumptions. Even read back and see how the Member replied to your post on this thread......
On the other hand, this is a public forum and as such we are all wide open to other opinions...for me....I don't like being talked "at" as opposed "to"....keep up the good work :(
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Sorry doganjo, I do not like my private life exhibited on a forum..thanks for your help and leave it at that.
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Trust me.....I'm a Chef !!
Trust me I am an accredited breeder
Sandy
I hardly think that was part of your personal life but let's just leave it at that. You have wrongly accused me of disclosing information to others before, it is just NOT true, and I do not like that any more than you like my straight talking.
and you know perfectly well my name is Anne.
You all know who I am, what I am, what I believe in, how I say things. No need for further insults or discussion. I am locking this topic.