The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Muc on April 17, 2012, 10:01:06 am

Title: Transporting weaners
Post by: Muc on April 17, 2012, 10:01:06 am
Anyone know what distance is too far for transporting weaners (8 weeks approx). It seems that the better deals are proportionately more distant from me. Is a two-hour journey too much?
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Berkshire Boy on April 17, 2012, 10:07:06 am
No 2 hours is fine, they will snuggle up in the straw and sleep most of the way. Just check them occasionally for water I tend not to give them food as I've had some car sick.
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Fowgill Farm on April 17, 2012, 10:54:14 am
Agree with BB, we've brought weaners up from essex to yorkshire which is over 3hrs, if you're putting them in a trailer partition part of it off if you can so they don't rattle round too much, plenty of straw. Try to collect in the morning if you can as then it gives them the rest of the day to recover when you get back. Stop halfway and just check they're ok, as BB says most just sleep most of the way though they do tend to poo a bit! If you're transporting in an estate or 4x4 provide shade as even on a cold day sun thro glass can be very hot (same as transporting dogs really) all common sense.
Hope all goes well
best Mandy  :pig:
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Muc on April 17, 2012, 11:22:25 am
Thanks for that guys. I'm making a crate to put in the trailer and will stop to give them a rest and a drink halfway - might have a cup of tea myself.
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Bionic on April 17, 2012, 11:24:55 am
Muc,
I am picking up 2 weaners on 5th May.  They are about an hour from home and I intend to use a dog crate with some straw and a tarp underneath to catch the smellies  ;D

Sally
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Muc on April 17, 2012, 11:31:06 am
A friend has offered to collect them in the back of his LandRover. He doesn't mind the smell, he says, but I'd be the one with the head out the window all the way.
 I think I'll stick with the trailer with the box inside.
 Just a thought. Would a barrel on its side, half filled with straw be too small?
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: princesspiggy on April 17, 2012, 12:20:09 pm
we travelled 4.5 hrs no problem, and they slept. they werent smelly either. if u want smelly, try turkeys  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: ZacB on April 18, 2012, 07:13:29 am
As this sounds a greater distance than 65km, Type 1 transporter authorisation required  ??? ??? ???

http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb12544d-pigs-080711.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb12544d-pigs-080711.pdf)
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Derby_menagerie on April 18, 2012, 08:15:36 am
Are the cheaper prices really worth it when you factor in diesel costs? It is worth considering really, I'm in Derby got one set weaners from Lincoln (about 2 hours) adds about a tenner a pig! Got the next lot from the farm down the road, he dropped them off, no diesel used! Getting a set of 'weaners' (actually 3 months old) next week ,different farm, about 3 miles away, diesel cost will be nothing as it is on the way back from the abattoir. The other thing to think about is most people will knock a bit of cash off if you are taking more than 2, so if you have the space that's worth considering. In my opinion the 65km will probably not apply under the 1 person 1 animal if 2 in the car rule!   
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: oaklandspigs on April 18, 2012, 08:20:01 am
As this sounds a greater distance than 65km, Type 1 transporter authorisation required  ??? ??? ???

http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb12544d-pigs-080711.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb12544d-pigs-080711.pdf)

There is a useful exemption from Defra in their general guidance

http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13550-wato-guidance.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13550-wato-guidance.pdf)

See section 1.5 and 1.6 these state :

1.5 In May 2007, we made a decision to ‘exclude’ from the scope of the Regulation journeys in which an individual animal is transported with its owner/ keeper from the rules set out in the Regulation. This ‘single animal exemption’ is carried over from the previous legislation and is not reflected in the current EU legislation. However, the European Commission is aware that we have asked local authorities and Animal Health to retain this ‘exemption’ in practice.
1.6 Historically, the ‘exemption’ has also been taken as applying to journeys where two animals are accompanied by two people, up to a limit of four animals/four people. This was to accommodate those who are transporting carriage horses for driving competitions or shows. We have asked local authorities and Animal Health to continue to apply the ‘exemption’ in this way.

Trading Standards should be aware of this (and these are the only people that will query this), but suggest you print the regs and take them with you.  By the by this is interpreted as adults, so you can't stuff the car with three screaming kids and 4 weaners.

Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Muc on April 18, 2012, 08:56:48 am
The DEFRA regs are only common sense and I could see nothing that would prevent the transport of two weaners in a  box in a Land Rover other than that the ramp must be at an angle of 38.5% but as no ramp is involved that is irrelevant.

There is a requirement to hold a "Type 1 transporter authorisation" and to ensure that drivers and attendants are in possession of a certificate of competence. It is not explained what these documents are and how they are obtained.
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: suziequeue on April 18, 2012, 09:00:30 am
We use a dog crate with plenty of straw. I brought our weaners back in my VW Polo this time. No smell. They slept snuggled all the way. We've got a trailer but the extra petrol needed to drag a big trailer all that way just for two little weaners didn't justify the extra expense for me. I'm a tight wad when it comes to petrol. :D :D
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Billy Rhomboid on April 18, 2012, 10:13:50 am


There is a requirement to hold a "Type 1 transporter authorisation" and to ensure that drivers and attendants are in possession of a certificate of competence. It is not explained what these documents are and how they are obtained.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/forms/2011/03/30/wit1-uk-animaltransport/ (http://www.defra.gov.uk/forms/2011/03/30/wit1-uk-animaltransport/)

Nothing too onerous in there. Good job i read this link though as I have some sheep to fetch and was unaware of the 65m limit. Application printed off.
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: oaklandspigs on April 18, 2012, 11:25:13 am


There is a requirement to hold a "Type 1 transporter authorisation" and to ensure that drivers and attendants are in possession of a certificate of competence. It is not explained what these documents are and how they are obtained.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/forms/2011/03/30/wit1-uk-animaltransport/ (http://www.defra.gov.uk/forms/2011/03/30/wit1-uk-animaltransport/)

Nothing too onerous in there. Good job i read this link though as I have some sheep to fetch and was unaware of the 65m limit. Application printed off.

The type 1 transporter is just a piece of paper you need to get.

The certificate of competance is a whole different matter.  You need to sit an exam - species specific so one for pigs, one for sheep, one for cattle, one for birds etc.

27 pointless multiple choice questions that you will pass unless you have problems with computers (yes you sit at a PC and click the answers) or have probelms with reading, both of which of course many professional hauliers do!

And of course it costs (mine was £65 five years ago).

http://www.nptc.org.uk/latest-news/detail.asp?dsid=182 (http://www.nptc.org.uk/latest-news/detail.asp?dsid=182)

Map of centres

http://www.nptc.org.uk/assessment-centres/default.asp?county=none (http://www.nptc.org.uk/assessment-centres/default.asp?county=none)


Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Muc on April 18, 2012, 12:38:43 pm
I see that it is only required by those transporting animals 'as an economic activity'.
There's nothing economic about my activities. :(
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: oaklandspigs on April 18, 2012, 12:57:39 pm
I see that it is only required by those transporting animals 'as an economic activity'.
There's nothing economic about my activities. :(

They take nearly three pages to describe what is an economic activity, and production of food is generally counted as economic if you sell meat. However whether you would ever be done for this is debateable, esp. as Trading Standards have better things to do.
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Bionic on April 18, 2012, 01:40:47 pm
I sent an email to Animal Health, Carmarthenshire on 4th April asking them to clarify what was classed as economic activity.  They haven't yet responded. Presumably still making up their mind  ;D

When/if I do get a response I will post it here.

Sally
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: suziequeue on April 18, 2012, 01:42:39 pm
Ah yes - this has been debated on this forum before and I seen to remember that the issue of "economic activity" was never really sorted out satisfactorally  :)
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: oaklandspigs on April 18, 2012, 06:08:55 pm
Suspect yuu'll get the usual Defra response (AH is part of defra), that only the courts can qualify what the term means.
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Bionic on April 18, 2012, 07:54:39 pm
I have sent them another email reminding them that I am waiting for a reply.  Lets see what happens
Sally
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: harry on April 18, 2012, 09:09:32 pm
2-3-4-and 5hrs away towing a trailer.. deisal nearly £1.50 a ltr  ??? ??? ???... they must be dam expensive locally.
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: robert waddell on April 18, 2012, 09:51:46 pm
maybe they want quality ;) :farmer:
Title: Re: Transporting weaners
Post by: Tiva Diva on April 20, 2012, 11:07:50 pm
The guidence I got here in Scotland specifically mentioned hobby breeders and smallholders. Basically it's economic activity if you're running pig-keeping as a business (though it doesn't have to be a profitable one!), but if you're mainly raising a couple of pigs for you and your family it doesn't count, even if you sell some of the pork to friends. I sat the exam: it's 60% common sense and the rest can be learned in half an hour or so. It cost £80 all told, so quite a bit of money, but we do sell most of our pork and are a business so are engaged in economic activity, though not neccessarily a profitable one ;)
The regs say anything up to 8 hours is ok for weaners over 10kg. The longest I've done was about 5 hours (for weaners for breeding) in the back of the car. The car stank, but they were fine!