The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Smallholding => Equipment => Topic started by: MAK on April 05, 2012, 11:24:42 pm

Title: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: MAK on April 05, 2012, 11:24:42 pm
I took an Oregan 14" 32 cc chainsaw back to a large chain of DIY stores (in France). I think that the retaining bracket on the flywheel that holds the rip cord was not screwed on - fell off and mashed up the metal fly wheel - sheared a wire that would not let me turn the machine off as usual ( I choked it). DANGEROUS
Anyway 
They insisted I left the front of the shop and talk to the Service Dept out back.
The chap asked how much I paid for it and what did I expect buying the cheapest chain saw to be used ??! What !
He insisted that I was using it too much to fell trees and that "yes - it was a problem for the large chain saw if he did his job and just gave me a replacement saw".
Realising I could not win or calm him down with my praying motions I asked for his help and advice.

It worked - we shook hands - he will replace the broken fly wheel, provide a new guarantee  and he will help me choose a good saw if I ever decide to buy a forrest and cut it down.

Maybe check all screws under the fly wheel cover to ensure bits of metal don't fly around.



Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Bert on April 06, 2012, 07:35:05 am
Sorry I don't know much about chain saws. Other half is just starting to give me a few lessons on how to use it and maintain it ( after 5+ years of asking!). He is however always on this web sit arbtalk.co.uk/forum/ (http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/) They may be able to help you. Good luck with it :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: robert waddell on April 06, 2012, 11:44:30 am
do they not have the sale of goods act in France
a lot of these chainsaws are Chinese copy's of proper saws  but they are getting better
i clicked on Bert's forum  very interesting especially the old chainsaws   i have a mcculloch saw from the 70s 100cc and a 30 inch bar and still works :farmer:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Womble on April 06, 2012, 02:36:07 pm
A friend of mine bought a cheapo chinese copy from Ebay recently - £80 including two bars / chains, case, etc.  It's 59cc, and pretty light.

What I will say though, is that it seems to run at a much lower chain speed than my Husqvarna, and though mine is only 46cc, I'd say mine has quite a bit more power too. Oh, and a few bits have fallen off his already, which is a bit scary!  So, whilst I paid a fortune in comparison to get the real deal, I'm very happy that it was money well spent.

That said, Oregon are a well known maker of quality chainsaw kit. Was it actually an Oregon saw though, or just one of their bars on a cheaper saw? (come to think of it, do Oregon even sell saws?  I'm not sure I've ever seen one!?).
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: bloomer on April 06, 2012, 02:45:07 pm
as far as i know oregon do chains and bars...

i have a cheap chinese saw and its does all my grubby trimming and light felling work where i'm likely to trash kit, i have had no problems with it apart from a tendency to trash the chain easily as it needs a better lock nut to hold the bar in place, the engine is fine though.
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: MAK on April 06, 2012, 07:02:51 pm
Sale of good act - you must be joking ! We took a strimmer back because I could not unlock the cord spool - "but you have used it" "it's not our problem" - on that occasion the OH had to put me in the car as I was all for waiting for the bloke in the carpark. As the godfather said " I am not a violent man BUT...."

The chain saw was sold as an Oregan and the chap did say that the arm and chain are very high quality but the motor not up to it. Maybe the motor is a Chinese copy.
lesson learnt - not to be so mean and go for the quality ones mentioned above - they will last.

the other half has had terrible trouble with her new Axminster Fretsaw - it seems Axminster buy everything in from China now and their staff seem fully aware of the problems and mechanical failures. It is difficult to identify or establish where some "familiar" brands are actually made.
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Simple Simon on April 06, 2012, 11:48:43 pm
Got a 20" Stihl 045 I bought in the 70's. Tough as nails.

Saws can kill or maim. With the chain moving at upto 20m/s why risk a chinese ripoff death trap?
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Womble on April 07, 2012, 08:16:55 am
'Tis true. The interweb is full of stories of cheap chinese copies having poor adjustment, bits breaking off, chain catchers that don't work (a key piece of safety gear that 'catches' the chain if it snaps), etc etc.  That said MAK, if you bought it from a proper shop, it probably just means yours is cheap, not unsafe. Hopefully you just got a dud, the last time and the new one will serve you well.

Have you got all the safety gear to go with?
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: robert waddell on April 07, 2012, 10:15:43 am
safety gear   if when a tree falls on you the only advantage that safety gear is going to be is locating you by the bright colour
i have had chains break on 30 inch bars  that is almost 6 ft of chain an it is the pulling side that breaks so throws the chain to the point of the bar
you have to be very aware that chainsaws are dangerous and not have people fudding about when you are working with them and keep your eye on the saw at all times never ever  saw above chest height
safety equipment is a mater of choice  i think it impares vision and movement both of which is essential when working with saws
if you click on the site that Bert has highlighted go to vintage saws there are videos of Forrester's working with no safety gear and using saws with no chain brake
and i have two vintage saws both McCullouch one is 100cc and was originally fitted with a 30 inch bar now fitted with a more realistic 24 inch bar still works no chain brake never had one in there day they were referred to as dollar a day saws  well i have had my moneys worth out of that saw
incidental with the Chinese saws most of the reputable service centres wont touch them :farmer:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: bloomer on April 07, 2012, 12:00:14 pm
thats the problem with a lot of the diy 2 stroke kit

all of ryobi stuff and homelite (all made by the same people) you try getting them repaired when they don't want to work!!!

i have 2 ryobi strimmers that were used heavily then died and i can't get them repaired so when i find i need one again i'll spend the money and buy honda or stihl so i can get the thing repaired in the future!!!
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: robert waddell on April 07, 2012, 12:44:42 pm
homelite used to be a good make as was McCullouch :farmer:
if you are wanting to use anything in a professional or semi professional environment it has to be a quality name  :farmer:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: MAK on April 07, 2012, 12:54:14 pm
I checked that the Oregan is not Chinese but just cheap ( 89 Euros). It has a chain catcher and compared well to the more expensive brands above. I'm not cutting down trees but am working on a few fallen bits and branches - so it is a bit safer. The ground is very irregular and I am carefull to adopt a good position and foothold before I start. I too feel safety bits impair agility and could hinder movement.
I was told the bar and chain are very good quality but now you have me thinking of "What if the chain breaks". Robert - are you saying that it should fly off forward or get caught up on the "chain catcher" underneath on its return towards the user.
I heard of an anesthetist who lifted his chain saw up and caught his son's neck. He could not save him. I think of that every time I use it and I am afraid that their tragedy has made me very carefull - especially as I am all alone here ( I take a mobile just in case).
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: robert waddell on April 07, 2012, 01:36:55 pm
if it is proper Oregon chain that is the best       my chain was a bigger pitch for a bigger saw and it had been used cutting silage in a pit   to give a clean face    even with the oil-er turned up the chain still wore down and broke at the rivets (weekest point)
to get the best from a saw it has to be in tip top condition chain a snug fit on the bar when the the chain is hanging like tits out a bra  that is when the chain flys off still driven by the sprocket and can take you hand or leg of
it is good that you are constantly aware of the dangers it is when you  get complacent or distracted that accidents happen
the top handle saws are only meant for licenced tree fellers as they are worked with just one hand yet they are for sale secondhand on e blag for anybody to buy that is just mental
when you think of the two man crosscut chain saws with just a little guard on the tip of the bar for safety the guy on the pointy end must    have been shitting himself
with the safety equipment and safety additions to the saws they were brought in because more idiots were buying power saws  and just not thinking
there is videos on u tube of v8 powered saws doing speed cutting :farmer:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Womble on April 08, 2012, 12:33:49 am
safety gear   if when a tree falls on you the only advantage that safety gear is going to be is locating you by the bright colour

Sorry mate, I disagree, even if you were being tongue-in-cheek!

http://youtu.be/KJk8abLqE84 (http://youtu.be/KJk8abLqE84)

But yes, obviously if you drop a tree on yourself, you're still going to get badly squished!

Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Simple Simon on April 08, 2012, 01:24:27 am
Working on fallen bits and branches is more dangerous than felling.  You're far more likely to be tempted to use the tip of the saw or accidentally touch the ground  When taking branches off a fallen tree look for those in tension and keep the trunk between you and the saw if poss. 

I've been using saws for 35 years and I wear safety gear because of the scar I have from 33 years ago when I got tired and careless. Chains make a messy injury that doesnt heal well.  And even if the chain brake works a helmet and visor stops the saw kicking into your face.

I've never had a chain break or seen one. Then again I never sawed silage or roots.  A chain is perfect and sweet cutting or garbage, nowhere in between.   Nice big chips of wood is good, sawdust is the chain waiting to kill you.

Robert's saw used chain with big fast cutters they don't sell to Jo public any more.  Anti kickback chain has a riser in between the links to make it safer, but slower.  That and chain brakes make the new saws safer but if you have a slack chain it will came off and if you hit a big enough lump of metal the chain will explode sending bits along the line of the bar.  That's why you hold it slightly offset.  Chain catchers and wrap-round handles limit the scope but stupidity always finds new ways of hurting.

Respect the tool, learn about it and be safe.
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: robert waddell on April 08, 2012, 10:09:04 am
difference of opinion here yes the vid shows what happens  when things go wrong  but how do you guard a scythe a saw bench or a log splitter or come to thing of it anything that rotates(there was a farmers wife killed with a turbo mower blade that came of and the trajectory and her position in the field hit her on the head )you have to be focused alert and very knowledgeable on the saw and chain the amount of plonkers that kill a saw because they omitted oil from the petrol mix
the chain in question is a Carlton b2 Oregon did make an equivalent you used to get an ice chain that was meant for cutting silage  Atkinson made a silage spade electrically driven    but these methods are long gone superceded by shear grabs
you have to be constantly vigilant all aspects of timber harvesting is potentially dangerous :farmer:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Simple Simon on April 08, 2012, 12:16:44 pm
I don't think we're disagreeing on much. 

You have to consider other people's safety, particularly those with Darwinian inclinations. Using a scythe is not a spectator sport.  I've seen a lot of near accidents in my time, the ones that make you shiver when you remember them like the man who approached a trees feller from behind and tapped him on the shoulder while he was cutting and 100% focused.  He swung round, saw in hand, and missed the idiot by about nothing.   I suppose these days youd get in trouble for not having cordoned off the area and put signs up.

I bought a lighter modern husqvarna last year.  It handles nicely but is far harder to start than my old stihl.   And for felling a tree I'll always use the stihl with its power, big spikes and less safe but faster chain.

Wat happened to Danarm?
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Simple Simon on April 08, 2012, 12:44:37 pm
From oregon. http://www.oregonchain.co.uk/en/support/safety-tips/harvester-chain-shot.html (http://www.oregonchain.co.uk/en/support/safety-tips/harvester-chain-shot.html)

Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: robert waddell on April 08, 2012, 01:15:34 pm
yes simple Simon that is why mechanical harvesters  have bullet proof glass in the cabs
the forking idiot that came up the back of the tree feller  had it been me he would have been laid out
to make the area safety compliant you would need to secure it with heraz fencing tape or rope is not an effective barrier just an acknowledgement from the person doing the work that there is a situation that you may be able to get compensation  :farmer:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Mel Rice on April 10, 2012, 10:57:16 am
It is difficult to decide to do the right thing when a new cheapo chain saw is alot less than a service/repair on a "Husky"
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: robert waddell on April 10, 2012, 11:11:22 am
i once priced a tractor by buying from the spare parts list  it was 3 times the price and you still had to assemble it
just wait to all these electronic control ed cars come of age to get air bags changed etc  the breaker yards will be full of decent vehicles that cost more to run than buy :farmer:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Simple Simon on April 10, 2012, 12:55:04 pm
You are right.  They've just made a sneaky change to the MOT standards so that if a dashboard warning light is illuminated it's an automatic fail.   Most of the taxis round here have a least one light showing.
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: robert waddell on April 10, 2012, 01:09:14 pm
just take the bulb out i did that years ago with a range rover and it was an enthusiast that was very strict doing the test as well :farmer:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Womble on April 10, 2012, 03:54:30 pm
It is difficult to decide to do the right thing when a new cheapo chain saw is alot less than a service/repair on a "Husky"

Yes, I thought that too. However, have a look online to see how many folks you can find who've regretted buying a Stihl or Husky...... then try the reverse  ;).
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: chrismahon on April 10, 2012, 07:49:47 pm
Better warn everyone there are some 'Chinese' Stihl copies out there at the moment. Look identical at first glance. But then you can see where they have saved money with inferior quality. £150 doesn't buy a Stihl so that's the first giveaway. Friend bought one and hasn't dare start it -that dangerous!

Can order Stihl parts from a distributor here in Burton upon Trent called Chainsdirect and they will ship to France MAK as they do regularly for many others. Also do safety clothing, wedges and Silky tree surgeon saws if you are serious about felling stuff.
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: Simple Simon on April 10, 2012, 11:52:32 pm
just take the bulb out i did that years ago with a range rover and it was an enthusiast that was very strict doing the test as well :farmer:

Trouble is the modern warning displays are all LEDs and you can't get near them without dismantling half the car.   

I gather that the electrical components on modern cars are coded into that car and won't work on another model of the same car.  Makes thievery more difficult but guarantees super profit margins for the dealers..
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: arwelcoed on April 26, 2012, 07:04:03 pm
Safety gear for chainsaw use is a must! I have been a full time tree surgeon for 15 years and have seen more bad injuries than I care to list here, and even more near misses!!
Best bit of advise I can give to anyone who just need to cut logs, bit of fencing or nothing else to demanding is buy one of the smaller sthil chainsaw about £200 quid and buy the new Oregon power sharp chain and bar for it (about £50) as a sharp chain is safer and it makes your engine last longer due to not getting abused.
Plus 12-24 months down the road stick the original sthil bar and chain back on and sell it on EBay for about £150! No service, no cheap replica problems to deal with.
If you have a large tree or trees to deal with then get a quote from a professional, you would be surprised at the amount of work you can get done for the cost of a big saw. Safe cutting everyone!!  :wave:
Title: Re: Broken Chain saw - 4 days old!
Post by: smudger on April 27, 2012, 10:11:09 am
I'd also really recommend doing a training course - husband did a Lantra one organised by DASH. Not cheap, but neither is his life!