The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: deepinthewoods on April 01, 2012, 09:32:35 pm
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so according to the news all day today, our government are about to pass a law that will mean they are legally allowed to track every call and text u make. by law, details of the phone number calling and the number called has to be stored by the phone operator. all web activity will also be stored, indeed it HAS to be stored by law. soooo theyll know where u are and know who your talking to, and have it all on record. to read or hear the content of those calls theyll need a warrant.
this is the biggest infringment of our human rights so far.
probably why galloway got in, a handy distraction, oh and a fuel 'crisis'
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OMG,is there no privacy at all,this really worries me,not that I have anything to hide but it is taking away more freedom-like are we not already jumping to their tunes anyway! >:(
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That's appalling. What is the purpose of it?
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anti terrorism laws is their given reason
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That's just disgraceful. If the records are there someone will look at them who shouldn't - the Leveson enquiry has only just happened!
What's wrong with getting a warrant to record if they have enough suspicion someone is doing things that are dangerous.
I don't think they'll pass it, so many of them are arranging dodgy deals, sleeping with their aides - they'd be a newspaper's dream!
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It's all a big ploy to make you write letters and buy overpriced stamps. greedy interfering basta.......rds. STORE THAT.
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They'd fall asleep listening in to my 'phone calls etc ::) Though I agree, Big Brother has you firmly by the short and curlies!!!!! Wouldn't this be an infringement of our human rights or something? Mind you it would save writing to the papers with complaints about the Government, you'd just have to 'phone your sister and tell her what a load of brainless pillocks they all are ;)
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There does come a point where the things we are asked to do to prevent terrorist desires to turn us into an unfree oppressive regime kind of make us into....oooh an unfree oppressive regime.....hmmmm kind of means they win without firing a shot!
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Its going to be a costly business, maybe we will each get a rating system like on here, stars for looking at nice things and sending E Mails that are too family and friends etc. I am very easy to follow indeed BUT, I stopped offering WI FI here as people were downloading too much and now matter how many signed agreements I had from t hem, if they were planning a mass raid on the net, it would show up as my server ::)
Years ago I was told there were trigger words that set off checks when you mentioned them on the phone.....well, if we do all start writting letters again they will also have a system of logging where they are going to and from!!!!
Nothing to hide either but some times things can go wrong...you never every know....I know some one who will be blowing a gasket........RUSTY!!!!!!!!
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Wouldn't this be an infringement of our human rights or something?
Unfortunately there is no right to privacy ::)
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the irony is, that all this is only possible because of the technology we all carry with us and use day to day. russ has got the right idea and i can see a time when ill be off grid too.
15 years ago hardly anyone had a mobile phone or pc, strangely, we all coped. in fact i think human interaction was more common and life felt more real.
something ive noticed is now everyone pays for stuff by chip and pin, people hardly talk to the shop staff they just look at the machine and tap in their pin. cash involved actually physically handing something to someone,
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it does not matter what political party are in power it is the security services that want it and they are there irrespective of what party is in power this was talked about when labour were in power just another thing to support the revolution
yes cash is the invisible power just to bad you can not use it for everything try buying a plane ticket with cash :farmer:
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My gasket blew a long time ago Sandy , almost nothing they do shocks me now .
Yep , the very reason that i am going off grid Dave , had enough of the insane clampdown on liberties , freedom and money , that are blamed on terrorism or the defecit , total crap !
The reign of the controling elite is near it's peak , where do they go from there ?
That crackpot Obuma just signed an executive order on march 16th , stating that he 'HE', can confiscate all food needed for human survival , plus any machinery needed to produce it , plus any land needed to grow it , plus any person fit enough can be consripted into the military or those not fit enough , used for any purpose deemed necessary by him or his executive secretaries !
The order in fact means he can do what he wants , when he wants , total tyranny .
He signed that eo directly after Camerom's 3 day visit ! , and now this over here !
The opening moves have been made .
So it begins !
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https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/stop-government-snooping?source=facebook-link#petition
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https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/stop-government-snooping?source=facebook-link#petition
Signed and shared on FB and twitter
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Ever watched the film the Matrix, we are getting more like that every day.
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Signed too.
It's ironic isn't it - by trying to stop terrorists, the Government are becoming even more repressive and controlling. The terrorists have therefore won, without lifting a finger, by getting our own Government to do their work for them ::)
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When will we learn - we have had anti terrorism laws for many years (remember Northern Irland) and they worked ok. most of this latest stuff is typical USA panic!!!
dont keep your media on --- get a group of your freinds as far away from you as possible ( I have someone in Hongkong and New Zealand ) to post your simcards to each other that will upset the powers
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Well what else are they going to waste all our taxes on if not mad arse ideas like this.
Terrorism is only a problem if you annoy people by killing thier friends and family.
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Did you lot not notice the date of the leaked info ;)
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that doesnt mean its not happening
heres the better petition
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32400
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If you are not doing anything wrong what is the problem? You all see a conspiracy around every corner.
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if your happy to have your kids grow up in a society that tracks and monitors every citizen then move to iran or china. me, i would like to hold onto a bit of freedom. evil only thrives when the good do nothing.
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Get real you are tracked and monitored all the time you have a mobile in your pocket and on many occasions that saves lives. These things get put in the press and blown up out of all proportion, most of what the papers print is fiction.
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BB, trouble is, a lot of people may do the odd thing on the net and therefore become criminals but those who are major players in the crime stakes are far too clever and will be posting letters in code ::) ::)
My hubby used to work next to a bomb factory in leics (whops now they will be looking at him so must not buy any suspect ingredients like custard powder or weed killer :o )He got on very well and chatted and went to the shop etc, nothing sinister but not hard to become suspisiouse.....Use the wrong terms and people think you mean something else..I worked in Drug advice and now not up to date with current trends in words used but I put something on FB and some one else I know in the drug field thought I meant illegal substances.....bit like saying you are going to buy grass seeds but you actualy mean the stuff you cut with a lawn mower!!!! I know my daughter worked as a chemist in a whole sale distribution and had to alert police if people ordered certain stuff!!!
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So, be extra careful next time, Womble ;) You are being watched ;) ;D
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so according to the news all day today, our government are about to pass a law that will mean they are legally allowed to track every call and text u make. by law, details of the phone number calling and the number called has to be stored by the phone operator. all web activity will also be stored, indeed it HAS to be stored by law. soooo theyll know where u are and know who your talking to, and have it all on record. to read or hear the content of those calls theyll need a warrant.
this is the biggest infringment of our human rights so far.
probably why galloway got in, a handy distraction, oh and a fuel 'crisis'
Didn't you know they can do all of that already if they suspect you are involved in criminal activity? The only difference is that the phone companies have to store the data now for a period of time. Its hardly news.
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Get real you are tracked and monitored all the time you have a mobile in your pocket and on many occasions that saves lives. These things get put in the press and blown up out of all proportion, most of what the papers print is fiction.
the issue i have is that this will be recorded and stored, as a legal requirement. how will what i did 6 months ago save a life? thats always the argument trundled out alongside terrorism.
this goes much deeper, maybe you should do your own research.
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so according to the news all day today, our government are about to pass a law that will mean they are legally allowed to track every call and text u make. by law, details of the phone number calling and the number called has to be stored by the phone operator. all web activity will also be stored, indeed it HAS to be stored by law. soooo theyll know where u are and know who your talking to, and have it all on record. to read or hear the content of those calls theyll need a warrant.
this is the biggest infringment of our human rights so far.
probably why galloway got in, a handy distraction, oh and a fuel 'crisis'
Didn't you know they can do all of that already if they suspect you are involved in criminal activity? The only difference is that the phone companies have to store the data now for a period of time. Its hardly news.
my point exactly. it becomes a presumption of guilt for the whole populace, ive no problem with criminals being watched, but not everyone!!
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Frankly, if you have nothing to hide it will not make any difference, no-one is going to go poking through your emails and phone calls unless they suspect something serious, like drug trafficking or terrorism. If someone is involved and that now means we can actually get enough evidence on file from historical records to put them away, i aint that bothered.
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I suspect a lot of the folk hit by the phone tapping in the Leveson inquiry didn't think they were of sufficient interest to warrant illegal phone-tapping either.
If records are kept, someone will abuse them.
At least as things stand now, someone has to have reasonable cause to suspect you're up to no good before they can invade your privacy in this way.
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Frankly, if you have nothing to hide it will not make any difference, no-one is going to go poking through your emails and phone calls unless they suspect something serious, like drug trafficking or terrorism. If someone is involved and that now means we can actually get enough evidence on file from historical records to put them away, i aint that bothered.
if your happy with it, fine, dont sign the petition!!! keep paying your taxes and be happy. :thumbsup:
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look, the difference is that everyone is to be monitored and recorded JUST in CASE they do something wrong. its an automatic presumption of guilt. our law says innocent until proven guilty
why are there only 3 countries in the world that have this law? china iran and the 3rd ive forgotten ::).
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Did you know that ISP scan e-mails. Essentially if they recognise a key word or phrase that matches you as a potential customer of ---- you will have an ad appear on your log on page. eg. " I Luv Cup cakes" - you get cup cake ads. I think it was Orange who spilled the beans but it happens.
Also - Your purchasing pattern is logged by your "loyalty card". True example - If Tesco sees that you stop buying ladies sanitary stuff and your age matches then they target you as a potential mum with "offers and vouchers" etc.
So yes we are already tracked but I agree if I am not asking " How can I make a bomb" then no problem. THIS IS A TEST - if I get raided by ant- terrorist police and you never hear from me again then you will know that France monitors internet chat. Bye - send cake and a file.
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look, the difference is that everyone is to be monitored and recorded JUST in CASE they do something wrong. its an automatic presumption of guilt. our law says innocent until proven guilty
why are there only 3 countries in the world that have this law? china iran and the 3rd ive forgotten ::).
But thats not right, no country possibly has the manpower to monitor everyone like that.
It is being recorded just in case...I dont really see the problem with that, I really dont. If you work in financial services then you will know everything has to be kept on file for 6 years after the customer closes their account for money laundering purposes, 'just in case'. But if you are not money laundering, who cares?
I can see that things are said and could be taken out of context and used agaainst a person as part of circumstantial evidence potentially - but thats what a lawyer is for really. There are currently massive problems for the police in convicting people that they know are planning terrorist activity here, I think we have to accept that this is the society we have created for ourselves and address it, not pretend or wish that this is not the case.
As has been said it is a bit late to worry about privacy now, every mobile phone can be tracked, all your shopping is tracked, all your emails can be monitored in real time and your web history accessed as computers keep all sorts of copies of things hidden away if you know how to unlock it all...
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im not sure which is worse, the bill or peoples ambivalence.
slowly, every human right you thought you had is being removed.
i hope that you at least question why.
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I think I know why, my uncle is old bill, it is for the reasons I have stated. I am NOT saying its a good thing, just that is how it is, as best I understand it. They cannot convict those plotting to blow up innocent members of the public atm (or very rarely) and thats why the Bill is going to Parliament. I am no expert and have not looked in detail, I shall do so before making any more comments :thumbsup:
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Dave have you watched 'zeightgeist?' If not, yell and I'll post it to you. you will either the copy it (no copyright, spread the word) and send it on to someone else, or spend the rest of your days rocking backwards and forwards under a table somewhere.
I watched, was horrified then researched and was even more horrified!
Let me know! I only have enough discs to make one copy, but if anyone else wants to watch perhaps we can round robin the set of discs?
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I think I know why, my uncle is old bill, it is for the reasons I have stated. I am NOT saying its a good thing, just that is how it is, as best I understand it. They cannot convict those plotting to blow up innocent members of the public atm (or very rarely) and thats why the Bill is going to Parliament. I am no expert and have not looked in detail, I shall do so before making any more comments :thumbsup:
good!! i see the need for protection for the queens jubilee (hurrah long live the queen) and the olympics, but that issue really is one of funding for proper surveillance and evidence gathering rather than one of a blanket law that affects the whole populace, its like saying that to stop a terrorist attack we need to lock everyone up!! a bit extreme i know but you see my point, i hope.
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Slave:
one who is the property of , and bound to obedience to annther ; one who is entirely under the influence , control of another person/government.
The true slave is not a person who has been shackled , beaten ,tortured , made to comply under threat of death , for as long as he/she has the spirit of rebellion against injustice and tyranny, and seeks freedom , he/she cannot be owned/imprisoned fully .
The true slave will in fact fight and even die to maintain the corrupt establishment that enslaves them , ( remember the Hitler youth ? ) .
The true slave will mock , ridicule and finally attack ! , 'any' , that stand against the system ( slavery !) , Hitler youth again .
The true slave will accept , justify , even fight for the currupt laws ? The powers that be impose in the name of , anti terrorism , or for the sačty of the people ( slaves/sheeple ) .
The true slave fears the free independent individual , who stands against the tyranny of tptb , as do tptb , because that free individual is beyond the control/slavery of tptb and is thus , just by being , a threat to their corrupt system .
I am one such free independent individual , and will always be so .
I will die rather than give my freedom to the corrupt rulers of my country , and to those that mock , ridicule and attack me for my freedom , i will meet you on the battlefield and fight to the death , soon !
Cheers Russ
( a free , independent individual , never a slave ! )
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Dave have you watched 'zeightgeist?' If not, yell and I'll post it to you. you will either the copy it (no copyright, spread the word) and send it on to someone else, or spend the rest of your days rocking backwards and forwards under a table somewhere.
I watched, was horrified then researched and was even more horrified!
Let me know! I only have enough discs to make one copy, but if anyone else wants to watch perhaps we can round robin the set of discs?
i havent seen that but have heard lots about it, theres so much illuminatid web conspiracy that i decided not to, much prefering to flag up the slide as it happens..... it gets easier the more obvious it gets!
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yay russ!!!!!
see im just a pussy wid yall :D
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If all our rights are being eroded what exactly can't you do today that you could do say 15 years ago. ???
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Just to add a discordant note I live near terror central, or Luton as it's otherwise known. There's a lot of bad stuff going on and I like the idea that someone's listening and trying to catch the b*ggers. A friend of mine helps the police do forensic analysis of paedophile computers. Thats an invasion of privacy, but it is necessary to prevent evil.
GCHQ has been listening to this stuff for years. Privacy has been an illusion for a long time: the number of CCTV cameras reading number plates and now running face recognition software is vast.
Better there's a proper process for snooping with some independent overseer than we leave it to Rupert Murdoch and his reptilian friends.
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I have never had a store loyalty card as I know they used the information as to what I buy and thats one way I stop some info being gained, but you do not have to be a psychic or cleravoiant to find out a lot about some people, info is all over the place, hate that when you buy something they ask your address. Letters are not always safe either, I remember having several letters they did not look like bills ripped in the same place to expose some of the details, at that time post also went missing, there was a postman found to be stealing stuff but this was seperate, I became very suspiciouse as my ex's then girl friend was a post women!!! I think they target social networks more as thats where meetings are organised, those spam E mails are getting clever as they can also use names that are familiar to you......one tip given to me was to spell my name slightly differently on some things, say add an E or middle name or add another middle name, that way you can trace who has passed your details on.. Like a lot have said, its gone on for years but now its going to be legal and we are going to know about it.....we ARE all going to be criminals......
I wonder if any action would be taken if you posted something like this on FB .....buy the way, nothing at all that I do!!
" I went through a red light this morning but as it was early I was doing 50 anyway in a 30 zone, I stopped and had my packed lunch and the wind blew all my rubbish over the road so I did not stop to pick it up, then went to work and could not be bothered to fill in some confidential forms last night and lock them away, I took them home with me instead along with a big wod of paper for the kids to draw on and some pens that there were loads of in the cupboard etc etc etc......
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Sandy, they are not looking for people speeding or throwing rubbish.
This is the trouble people read all the rubbish on the net from all the scaremongers and idiots and come to all sorts of conclusions. It is to monitor serious crime and if you all really thought about it that is a good thing.
Certain people want to get out of the woods more often they are getting paranoid. ;)
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im not paranoid, they really are out to get you :D
all this assumes you are happy with the way our government is run right now, tbh im quite happy with it myself, but what about in the future? if, in the future the government does something you are not happy with and you want to organize a justified peaceful protest, this legislation could be used to track your conversations and movements. that is what happens in iran. and that is what im not happy about. this legislation is being put in place while we are all quite happy, what happens when we are not.
i think im done here, you can either see it or you cant, im happy to have just flagged this one up and maybe got a few people to sign the petitions and think a bit about it. i was going to say something about the berk in berkshire, but thought better of it ;) :o ::)
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I've been called worse usually by my better half. :D
The pigs are Berkshires and I'm in Wales. ;)
I do see where you are coming from but the problem for the powers that be is when do you bring this sort of legislation in. No good doing it when the proverbial has hit the fan better pre armed surely.
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I understand they are having second thoughts about it anyway due to the backlash from various quarters! ;D
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I suppose one good thing if its passed, all the people who are actualy not commiting crimes will be able to back up thier alibies....I wonder if that would be the case? I very much doubt it..
I am not paranoid at all as its been going on for years its just easier to aquire info now, I know the police used to gather as much info on people in thier community as possible, thats good but now more info can be collected with ease, to me thats a worry, what they do with it, and although they are after the major criminals, the information about petty crimes will be found so some one has to make the decision not to act on what they find...for every big criminal there is a whole army of small ones......
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Is this true - that my local police force know all about me? i don't think so. Even the Community Bobby doesn't know my name! But the people in the Co-op, hairdresser, Council office, surgery, chemist, post office, and takeaways all know me as the lady with the ducks and chickens and dogs. ;D ;D ;D I'm not sure that there is that much petty crime - if there is I never see it. Mind you, you have a birds eye view of all goings on in Clackmannan. ;)
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Have you seen the film Enemy of the State, watch it and make up your own mind.
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::) not on about Clackmannan although you just have to see the headlines of the local paper about Alva?, lots of small and big criminals around here, one owns most of the rental market and shops in the area but also does a lot for charity!! Everywhere just about has small criminals, from selling illegal tabacco to stolen stuff and as for the police knowing your name, they would soon know your name if they needed to, I do know they collect as much info as possible on people but of course names of most people will not be remembered unless you are "KNOWN" to them ;)
Just added this link https://www.facebook.com/alloaadvertiser (https://www.facebook.com/alloaadvertiser)
Being in the village center means nothing, just see and hear the fights but I keep myself to myself and am not interested in others business just mine.....I like my privacy and do not like the government or others to be digging into it and passing info on either....however, it happens and will always happen unless you take yourself off the radar!!
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Gosh peeps do seem to be getting exceedingly hot under the collar about very little .
I understand that the legislation is to bring us into the 21 century to cover various new methods of communication being used by criminals and those who want to see us return to the 14 century .
It will still need a legal eagal to grant the survelance and it will actually be fully recorded as to what is being done and leave a paper trail or three.
I for one would be most happy for any one to find & check all my many thousands of friends and aquaintances there's bound to be the odd rotten egg in there somewhere.
What I'm happy for is that legislation is hoped to prevent some smarmy solicitor for the defence protesting that looking up on his clients & their pals is illegal and thus a guilty set of murders get off scott free because of a legal technicality and then they do it again and again whilst laughing at the UK citizens .
Getting legal access to the coms of known nasities and crooks should prove very good in clipping their wings .
Those that are using encripts and flash high speed packets are already on the radars , now it's the turn of the rank and file .
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Arguing against myself I don't think this is very little. Remember the loyal labour party member who was arrested under the terrorism stuff at their conference a few years back. Pass a law and some busybody will misuse it.
Don't see how my human rights can be infringed while real terrorists have theirs protected by the EU. This does bother me but I can't see a good solution
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What about a Christian not allowed to wear a Cross to work in-case it offends. it seems to be that our rights are slowly disappearing wither we like it or not.
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What about a Christian not allowed to wear a Cross to work in-case it offends. it seems to be that our rights are slowly disappearing wither we like it or not.
simple i work for me, crosses and all other christian symbolism are welcome in the work place... i even work on churches occasionally...
if it offends people they can *@!! off!!!
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Interesting that I watched a police search and peoples comments almost as it happend on my Facebook page, people get out of hand, Chinese whispers and can cause big problems...I followed some people when the riots were in London as I have a friend who could not get out her flat as their was a fire on the ground floor...problems with modern tec. is we can cause more problems instantly and blow things out of proportion!!
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Crosses and Christians ?
That is a difficult one - as a non christian but someone believing in g_d I do find that a large cross on an exposed chest rather "in my face" but then there are other religions in the UK that require heads to be covered or hair not to show- some even have to wear their dagger.
I don't think that you should or can restrict religious symbols, dress or custom unless there is a blanket ban for all. If we banned the cross then do we ban the nun's habit.
France banned the burqa and niqab on the basis that is was an affront to woman and was sexually discriminative. So now medical masks are worn - just like those worn by the Japanese when they have a cold. I think there are just a few court cases pending but the nationalist in France ( strong national front) attack woman who cover their face because they are "enforcing the law". Just like the muslims attack jews wearing a kippah.
If all religious symbols, clothing and behaviours were legally banned then imagine the licence extremists would have in attacking those people they have a fundamental hate for.Many have forsaken their religious "attire" because they feel that they stand out and will be the next victim of intolerance or hatered. Maybe then that is the solution - a few years of hell for everyone then all those with a faith may then stop wearing the cross,niqab,turban, wig or kippah. Simples.