The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Remy on March 27, 2012, 09:39:43 pm
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I have a little Gotland ram who was born last year. He is quite tame but maybe a little too much - he's very handy with his head! I can go in the paddock with him and he's usually okay but if food is involved he just starts butting everything in sight, including me. He's a nice looking ram who I hope to put to my Gotland ewes this year, but is this behaviour unacceptable in a ram I plan to keep as a sire for a while? I'm wondering what he's going to be like once put in with ewes! What's the best deterrent, apart from a whack on the nose (which doesn't actually work!)?! My other two rams (Ryeland and Zwartbles) are more amenable.
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Our Castlemilk ram lamb is going the same way so we will love to listen to advice on this one - at present I walk backwards from himtill he gets bored!!
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I don't know what the general consensus is with my methods on here, but I either tip the buggers up and hold them down for a bit or throw a damp towel over their heads so they can't see. If that doesn't work the freezer is 100% foolproof ;D
I take no chances with them now, 3 fused vertebrae from a ram attack was enough to make me ruthless with rams :sheep:
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Mmmmm. Don't get them tame, don't fuss them, don't feed them tidbits. Sadly, they need to be a bit scared of you or else they decide they're the boss and you're part of their flock. I don't think there's really a way to be friends with a tup, it's just how they are.
To remedy the existing situation, you're going to have make him wary of you. Dogs, noise (ladle on metal dustbin lid, lots of shouting), arm waving, empty bucket clattered on head (more noise and indignity than hurt) and probably more than once.
Or yes, tipping them in their bums regularly would reinforce that they're smaller than you!
It's a pain isn't it. My Shetland tup would like to make friends but he was also thinking of butting and after a nasty experience with a Rough tup, I've really backed off my Shetland and save fussing and stuff for the girls.
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Never hit them on the head...or nose...its a challenge like another ram would make....
Take a bit of blue plastic water pipe and swing it a front legs like a golf club....you have to mean it and they must lose their balance.
After that just waving it or tapping it menacingly on your wellie every time you go in the field will work ....but never turn your back....
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I agree - never turn your back - ever.
Funnily enough a way which works with multihorned sheep (may work with others too) is to hold a big stick above your head. I think it must say 'my horns are very much bigger than yours, so back off'.
If you are female, don't go into a tups field when you are menstruating........
But as others have said, avoid getting tups too friendly in the first place and definitely let them know you are boss.
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It's a bit of a quandary, I know you shouldn't make a 'friend' of a ram but it makes for a darn sight easier handling if they're not flighty when you need to do sheep maintenance. He is halter trained but I need to be able to get near him to get the halter on in the first place, which he is quite amenable to. I do know not to hit them on top of the head as they see this as a challenge, but didn't realise the nose was in the same category ... :sheep:
No I never turn my back on any of them - even my lovely tempered Ryeland, as one year I was walking across his field when I heard the thundering of hooves and turned round to see Jasper running at me full tilt with his head down! Strangely he was only ever like that for one particular year, he's never done it again ???.
I will try the blue plastic pipe on the legs and if that doesn't work he's small enough to tip at the moment, and I have five dogs :D
I don't have to worry about the menstruating bit! ;D
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Walk into the field with one arm straight out in front of you and never, never lose your nerve and turn and run :o They may follow you but will respect your huge "horns" Please don't hit them, they don't deserve that, they don't know what's expected of them. If they are truly dangerous then, I agree, the best place for them is the deep freeze :)
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I don't lose my nerve and run, and I don't willingly hit any animal - but if I'm about to have seven bells butted out of me I reserve the right to defend myself! ;D
Believe me this little ram would not take any notice of an oustretched arm, he would think I was offering him food :D (and no I haven't ever hand fed him).
I'll have to size this one up as he grows .. hopefully he'll be manageable
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Sylvia...rams can be very very dangerous.....but if its a top class pedigree ram the freezer is not the place! I also reserve the right to defend myself having nearly been badly injured by a horned ram weighing in excess of 90kg!
All the rams I have currently are good boys ( I breed for temperament) but I still take a stick and never turn my back on them!
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Our castlemilk ram (lambish) tried to but me yesterday so I got the better of him and gave him a 1min shout to tell him off - it's going to be a battle of wills and like Remy I don't want him so scared I can't get hold of him to do feet etc. I think ours is just growing up and testing the boundaries - like the blue pipe idea and the big horns trick will definitely give those a go
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I held up my finger at my tup and shouted 'no' very loudly at him - seems to have worked so far :D he'll come near but not butt me now.
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We have some very large hampshire down rams and we find after the show season they are very quiet which can become a pain, especially when feeding them. I also had a ram who was very protective of his girls, and in the old days i used to smack on the nose if they became butty, now i use water.
A water pistol or large syringe filled with water usually does the trick. They hate it if squirted in the face . Your timing has to right and get them when they are putting their heads low to get a butt in, give them a squirt and if you can, aim at the nose.
Has worked for me every time, ram doesn't know where it comes from just that when he goes to butt he gets wet and they hate water up their nose.
Did have one very bad boy who i had to actually tip a bucket of water over his head to get him to respect me, now he stands back and lets me through.
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The bucket of water works with fighting dogs too :dog: :pug: 8)
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I'll add the water trick to my arsenal - although I have to say it didn't work with my dogs - when my GSD look a dislike to my elderly collie - ended up with 2 wet dogs, wet kitchen floor and bite through my hand - I did what your always told not to do and paid the price but I had to get my young GSD off my old collie. After that they never met again and with a strict routine Tess the collie lived happily for a further 6 years
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My first Wiltshire ram we bought as a lamb and for the first year he was fine. Second year was a different story. He was dangerous. He knocked my mum down and did the same to me a couple of weeks later. I had to grab hold of him and drag him to a shed and shut him in as he was going to go for me again. Needless to say he went soon after. The current ram is last years lamb and so far is ok. However he does "look" at you in the same way as the old one did. I shake my stick at him and scare him off. The same will happen to him if he becomes nasty.
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I'm just thinking that there may be an alternative market for those antler hats you see in the shops around Christmas time :reindeer: :reindeer:
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I'm just thinking that there may be an alternative market for those antler hats you see in the shops around Christmas time :reindeer: :reindeer:
;D ;D ;D
I have a permanent and often painful lump on my back from being knocked headlong - twice - by a lovely Blue-faced Leicester tup who just wanted what was in the bucket I was carrying.
I spent a very scary hour getting myself back from a mile out on the moorland in the darkening time one cold and wet night with what I thought was a broken leg - Swaledale tup with sawn-off horns, my own fault this time.
Our Charollais tup arrived as a very over-friendly and greedy ram lamb. Shouting and leaning over him showing him how much bigger than him you are seems to have worked - plus he's been tipped up a few times to have his feet seen to.
I never ever ever turn my back on any of our tups now.
I may invest in a water pistol - I like the sound of that one! :D
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i'm reading this as i have a butty billy - and his horns are positioned exactly to go into an artery in the leg!
I'll try the water pistol - I don't want to be aggressive as they can sense that and do it right back.
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Brucklay used the ' waving here stick at his feet' technique tonight and it worked
a treat...Mortimers ego hurt so he went back to demolishing his Dome shelter. ;D
It worked - she didn't touch him once... :thumbsup:
cheers woollyval
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Well coincidentally I had a perfect length of blue plastic piping that has been sitting on my yard for several months after a friend had replaced some hosing - now I had the perfect use for it!
I went into the rams' field this afternoon with my pipe and Buster (the butty ram) started his usual tricks despite me not having food or anything remotely interesting for him. He came towards me head down and I whacked him on the knees with said pipe - wow, amazing transformation, he backed right off and I only had to smack the pipe on my leg for him to keep away.
RESULT!! ;D ;D thanks woolleyval :thumbsup:
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Our Soay ram has been on loan to us and should have been with us until June but his owner is kindly taking him back early ...... tomorrow. He has become a bit of a handful. Was worried that we had done something wrong but sounds as though some rams are just difficult. He is just very pushy and bolshy ...... waves leg, scrapes ground, always waiting for you at the gate, running up close behind you and on a couple of occasions giving OH a good butt when feeding. Someone mentioned dogs .....well keep my big retriever safely out of the rams way. He has butted him a couple of times really hard .... its dog worrying here and not sheep worrying! Have started to carry a stick for self protection in case he decided to follow through with one of his charges. Must admit have waved it at him and shouted in an attempt to deter him but it just causes more confrontation. OH has turned him over and this has probably been most effective but not stopped his behaviour.
Are some rams easier than this or is this normal and something that just has to be managed?
Investing in the blue piping for next year. ;D ;D ;D
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Soay tups are a bit different. In their natural habitat ie living on an island without human supervision, numbers of males to females are roughly equal. Tups have a rut like deer and fight to defend their harem of females. So fighting and defending territory is a natural and essential part of a successful tups life. Soays have not lived in a domestic environment for many generations so their behaviour has not been much modified. Most other breeds have been domesticated for many generations, even centuries, being given a harem they don't have to fight for or defend, so they are less aggressive than Soays.
Small though they are, Soay tups don't seem to realise they are the smallest chaps around and they are completely fearless in a fight - usually started by them.
Presumably as part of their environment, a Soay tup will see you as something else to beat up. We have had some ok Soay tups and some aggressive wee devils over the years, but mostly they have restricted their aggression to other tups.
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I kept Friesland milking sheep for many years and found that the outsretched arm, with the hand in a fist kept even the most aggresive ram at bay(makes your arm ache though ;D) I do stand my opinion that a truly dangerous ram should not be kept. Anyone can trip and fall when walking backwards as happened to a lady on Dartmoor years ago. She was killed!
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I guarantee Sylvia that if I did this to my little ram he would butt my fist ;D. We were putting up a sheep shelter in their paddock, and had leant a spade up against the shelter - he started butting that!
I will see how he gets on, he is a nice looking ram and if he respects the pipe, no problem! ;)
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My first Wiltshire ram we bought as a lamb and for the first year he was fine. Second year was a different story. He was dangerous. He knocked my mum down and did the same to me a couple of weeks later. I had to grab hold of him and drag him to a shed and shut him in as he was going to go for me again. Needless to say he went soon after. The current ram is last years lamb and so far is ok. However he does "look" at you in the same way as the old one did. I shake my stick at him and scare him off. The same will happen to him if he becomes nasty.
Wilts tups need to fear you. Mine will come to a bucket, but he knows I'm 'scary'. I find the presence of a dog puts em off too.
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I find the presence of a dog puts em off too.
Just a word of caution... both tups and ewes (especially ewes with lambs at foot) may butt at the dog and fail to notice that you are between them and the dog...
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a nice long length of alkathene piping should solve your problems:)
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On the same line as people have mentioned though, last year i had a blue leicester manage to put me through a gate when he escaped, i have a young collie bitch who is fearless, he got halfway down the road and attempted to butt her a few times, she gave him a good few grips and snaps and he wasnt long running back to where he come from with her snapping at his arse! -- while i tried to gain some composure with a face covered in blue tup marker!!