The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: lee.arron on March 27, 2012, 12:13:44 pm
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with the warm weather around and slight scouring from the richness of the grass my sheep are on i am dreading if im unfortunate enough to encounter fly strike. will be my first summer keeping sheep and im starting to stress already . After treating for scab using dectomax i was told this can also prevent fly strike, does any one else use this? .
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And now the more im reading about it and seeing extreme images on google the more i worry. prevention is obviously the best cure
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Watching this thread with interest - I'm in the same boat. I also treated with dectomax, but before christmas. I'm sure we will get lots of good experienced shared here - this site has been my main mentor through my first 12 months...thanks and long may it continue and hope I am able to put back some useful tips soon!
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If they've had their lambs you could dag them.
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I will be treating my little flock this year. The co-operative sheep that grazed last summer were not treated preventatively - seeing a young ram lamb go down with flystrike was unneccessary and quite horrific. he recovered but I do believe prevention is better than cure.
Am also liaising with the 'singing shearer' from on here to come and give them a nice hair cut!!
will be interested to hear when is best to treat though from those with experience :)
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I thought Dectomax treated scab. I've never used it against fly strike. You are right that prevention is better than cure. Although it is hot at the moment I have heard no reports of the kind of fly which causes strike being around - not that that means much as I could have missed it. Up here in Scotland we are usually ok until May for flies, although we have midges, mozzies and so on well before that.
To prevent fly strike:
1) - treat the scours ie check worming and any other possible cause before assuming it's caused by new grass - it may well be the grass, of course.
2) Dag thoroughly, and wash the bums with soapy water if very poopy
3) if you think that blowflies are around, treat with Crovect or your chosen product (once bums have dried), remembering that these products will contaminate the fleece for three months after application, so should not be used on fleece intended for craft work, for processing, or on a sheep to be judged at a show. I would far rather go ahead and treat to prevent strike, then discard the fleece and not show the sheep than risk the horrors of fly strike.
After treatment, repeat as necessary - with Crovect it's every six weeks, with Clik I think it might be 4 months, so check the information which comes with the product, then make a note in your farm diary.
As with all such things, treatment is not a 100% guarantee of avoidance, so still watch out for signs of strike.
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I'm interested to learn more about the pro's and con's of Crovect Vs Clik? I can see an obvious advantage in the longer time between treatments. Does it work out financially the same do you know? Is one better in other ways that the other?
I like the idea of not having to round up the animals too often in the hot weather and being able to get a few things done all at the same time.
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I'm interested to learn more about the pro's and con's of Crovect Vs Clik? I can see an obvious advantage in the longer time between treatments. Does it work out financially the same do you know? Is one better in other ways that the other?
I like the idea of not having to round up the animals too often in the hot weather and being able to get a few things done all at the same time.
...and also whether either of them work better or are not advised straight after shearing.... I used spot on 4 weeks ago (on Vet advice) and it hasnt worked at all (for biting lice), wondered if fly strike prentatives had a similar action (ie work better with less fleece)?? So many questions!!! Mad weather - frost on fields in morning, panting sheep huddled in the shade by lunchtime!
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I have just found a product over here in France called Vital Repuls, I have been told that it is a non toxic treatment which is based on essential oils.
So I purchased some today to try, I will let you know how we get on as the flies here are up and about already
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Spot on is a synthetic pyrethroid....kills but dosent prevent! Make sure you use a good 5ml plus a bit more if sheep v big and put between shoulder blades.
Crovect can treat AND prevent and has a shorter withdrawl for meat so better used on lambs.
Clik is a larval stage inhibitor and so will prevent BUT if your sheep has microscopic hatched maggots already it will not kill.
Clik has a long meat withdrawl period so use on ewes and lambs being retained for breeding.
All have serious health handling issues and I am of the opinion that good dagging ...really good, goes a long way to preventing bum strikes but early shearing, but not too early prevents shoulder strikes.....Then a good application of crovect or Clik....making sure correct amount for weight of animal after shearing and treating all lambs at same time works well
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DECTOMAX is used to treat scab and worms . SPOT-ON is not affected by length or thickness of fleece as you part the fleece and apply directly onto the skin, it can take up to 6 weeks for a full lice kill , after applying you need 2hr's of dry conditions . CROVECT kills lice and maggots,ticks , prevents strike but only on the areas covered by spray, for lice it is affected by a heavy thick fleece and you may need to repeat, for strike as said you must repeat, after applying you need 4hr's dry conditions . DYSECT and ZERMASECT are similar but claim 8week protection. CLIK is only for blowfly protection lasts 16 wk's ,needs only 2hr's dry is unaffected by fleece thickness , can be applied at shearing. IF you dag while protected by a pour-on you must re apply to the clipped areas :farmer: :wave:
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Wow shep thanks - what a comprehensive answer!!! I shall cut paste and keep that. Reasuring that the spot on may yet work, but worrying that the vet got it wrong (re spot on and fleece length - we did part the wool and apply directly onto the skin on shoulder midline, so hope that was right at least!). MANY thanks from this novice.
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I thought the dose with Crovect was slightly different for lice, ticks and flies and so was the application - I've used the thin line from shoulder to tail tip and the spray for different things - this may clarify
http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Crovect-Pour-On-for-Sheep/productinfo/CROVECT/ (http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Crovect-Pour-On-for-Sheep/productinfo/CROVECT/) - then click dosage and administration
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Ahhhh...... I was just about to post when Brucklays reply appeared. We used Crovect but applied a thin line down the centre of their backs ..... preventative to fly strike. It was a pour on. Is that what we should have done? Now I am confused.
New to sheep and thought of fly strike fills me with horror. When do most people treat as a preventative? My sheep mentor tells me to wait until May up here.
I know this is probably a silly question but what are the early signs of a sheep having fly strike? How long have you got before it is too late? I know that a similar thing in rabbits kills them pretty quickly. Sorry for my ignorance!
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According to the instructions - ticks - thin line - lice also a thin line - Headflies the t-bar end and Blowflies the fan spray.
So far I've treated a few weeks after shearing so they have a bit of grown back as I believe this stuff is pretty powerful and so far we are lucky enough not to have has any cases but I think excessive scratching, loosing wool is the first sign - I'm sure you get a better answer than mine.
I hate the thoughts of strike too and just try and keep an eye on everyone and their habits I think that can help
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I've had loads of experience with flystrike but not with the various treatments - I only use Crovect as it both prevents and kills maggots once they have taken hold, I can vouch for it's effectiveness. It's the most awful thing and without a doubt can kill - I lost a well grown lamb to it. If the fleeces are thick you can often clip and treat an area only to miss another, which is what happened to my ram one year - I had to treat him three times! Dagging will help keep the flies away from the rump area but they very often strike on the neck and shoulders. I have at one time used diluted Jeyes fluid, this was because I didn't have any Crovect to hand and I was desperate, it was amazingly effective! Probably not to be recommended but it certainly did cure this ewe.
Signs of strike are the sheep keeping looking at it's rump or trying to bite at an area it can't reach - this can be a sign of other conditions too but I know precisely when any of mine have strike now. If the maggots have taken hold they will lie down a lot and seem depressed. The areas of fleece that are affected are soggy and wet, you often can't see this from looking so if you suspect something is wrong then feel the fleece all over, especially if the sheep have a thick fleece.
Last year I even had a pony succumb to it, the maggots ate his entire dock (tail) and I have never seen so many maggots in one place, it was horrendous! :o I had to clip off all his tail hair, and even then the vile things managed to crawl up inside his sheath :P. Thankfully said pony recovered well although he is still missing his lovely tail :-\ .
You can't be too vigilant with flystrike and it's definitely easier to manage once they are shorn. I used to have them done around end of May but this year may shear earlier.
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I hate the thoughts of strike too and just try and keep an eye on everyone and their habits I think that can help
Actually Brucklay standing watching your sheep and their habits and behaviour is a vital tool against most things.....and strike happens so fast its incredible! As soon as you see anything unusual check and check!
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I know this is probably a silly question but what are the early signs of a sheep having fly strike? How long have you got before it is too late? I know that a similar thing in rabbits kills them pretty quickly. Sorry for my ignorance!
It's far from a silly question - a huge part of shepherding is based on observation, so obviously you need to know what you are looking for.
One of the first signs is that the sheep are 'bothered' so they stamp, flick themselves, suddenly leap away then lie flat on the ground, leap up again, scuttle forwards, stamp and so on. They may be found hiding in the shade somewhere, with a small cloud of flies around them, or scratching their backsides against the fence. At this stage they may or not have been struck ie the eggs may have been laid but the maggots haven't hatched and started chomping.
Once the maggots hatch, you may notice a damp patch in the wool, over the rump or shoulder but this is not necessarily visible in coloured sheep. Once the maggots grow big the sheep will go down, there will be a dark patch, a typical smell and if you are really lucky you can hear the rustle of them feeding. Truly disgusting.
Urgent treatment is essential - trim off the fleece over the affected area, close down to the skin, and for a margin beyond (the maggots will make off at a rate through the wool). Check between the hind legs as this part is a favourite but not visible from above. Apply Crovect to the affected area unless the skin is broken. If it is broken, the sheep needs an injection of long-acting antibiotic pronto, a topical healing cream applied to the skin, and the Crovect applied to the surrounding area but not to the broken skin.
Good observation will pick out most cases of strike before they become lethal. The only time I have seen a sheep dead from strike was when my neighbour didn't bother to care for his animals. Legally all sheep should be checked at least daily and you have a couple of days before hatched maggots can cause death. However, I know that sometimes for one reason or another a struck sheep doesn't show the usual signs and may be missed and die. I think that the maggots give off a toxin (someone correct me if I'm wrong) which can kill, and a downed sheep can easily succumb to pneumonia as well as to infection entering through the broken skin, so the antibiotic jab is doubly essential. A sheep which has had a bad case of strike will need careful nursing care until it recovers.
One small point to note is that a product such as Crovect doesn't prevent blowfly eggs from being laid, so you may see them on your sheep, but if the product is working the eggs will not develop into maggots.
Once an animal has had one batch of fly eggs laid, the smell given off attracts every other fly in the neighbourhood, and this overwhelming infestation will kill far more quickly than a single batch.
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Although without a doubt flystrike is one of the more serious and troublesome things a sheep can get, it's not always as bad as it looks if treated. I had a little cade lamb who had been unfortunate enough to get more than his fair share of sheep ailments in his young life - first he got a bad eye infection, then orfe which stopped him from eating properly and as a result he lost loads of weight and couldn't baa! I fully expected to lose him but he rallied although was half the size of his twin brother.
Then we went away on holiday for a week and leaving the farm in care of a relation, and on our return I found this little lamb looking like a walking skeleton and collapsed in the corner of a paddock. When I checked him over he had been struck and completely eaten away between both his back legs, right down to the bone in places! It was horrendous. I immediately treated him with Crovect but expected him to die any moment.
Well the next day he was still there, the wounds although huge had already started to heal over, and over the weeks he completely recovered. He is now one of the largest sheep I have, has never had another day's illness (oops better not tempt fate) although he still has the funniest croaking baa!
As others have said with strike it's the speed at which it can take hold, which means you should always be vigilant. Fingers crossed with preventative care you may not experience it!
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Totally agree Woollyval - as relatively new to sheep I watch mine more than most and get up close twice a day so have managed to attend to little sheep niggles quickly. I'll do my best to keep on the side of preventative care.
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Some really good points here .... so helpful.
Fleecewife- those pointers are great. I hope I would notice a change in behaviour but so good to see what I might be looking for. I am always worried that I might miss something simple but important.Like to have the details as it were so that I can hopefully spot things quickly.It is so difficult when you have no first hand experience .........thank goodness for this site!
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It's a great excuse to spend time watching your flock - that way you learn their normal behaviour so can spot something different straight away.
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CLIK IS BY FAR THE BEST TREATMENT in my opinion, it's expensive but you only have to spray down the back and rear and your animal is protected for 4 months - not just where the spray touches, but everywhere. The flies may still lay eggs, but click prevents the larvae from hatching out. It's the only thing that gives complete peace of mind. I find with the warm springs we're having, I treat in April to cover till shearing and then I treat after shearing to cover till end October (I've had strike in October and seen maggots around in early November). This isn't a cheap option, but once you've experienced trying to treat a struck animal you never want to go through it again. Crovect can be sprayed directly onto a struck area of fleece, but if the strike is really bad and gone deep it's often too late (although I've saved some pretty bad cases in the past, before I discovered the wonders of Clik). I do sometimes use Crovect if I've run out of clik as a preventative, in which case you need to cover as much of the fleece as possible and be aware it only lasts 8 weeks. I keep both products in just in case. If using Crovect you need to keep a closer eye on them - very occasionally they can get strike in the hoof or in an obscure place. Bear in mind that if you treat with any of these products, once you've sheared the product is ineffective, so you need to treat again. Don't believe that shearing alone prevents strike - I've had a few animals struck after shearing if you don't treat them, especially if they've got open wounds from the shearing cutters. Look out for the shiny "greenbottle" flies - they are the culprits. I detest them! You can use clik on lambs, but only when they get to a certain weight.
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Thanks for that I think I may invest in some, as you say it's not the cheapest option (neither is Crovect!) but may give more peace of mind if it lasts so long.
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How soon can you reapply Clik if you have given a treatment and then have the shearer here say 2 months later? thanks
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With Clik you MUST NOT shear for three months according to the instructions. The reason that it's so effective is that it's very poisonous.
We use Clik and Crovect and Dectomax because they do different things in different circumstances. We used Crovect with success in January on some sheep that were shedding wool by rubbing themselves, probably from midges. But that was after we thought it might be sheep scab (deeply disturbing to see) because of the amount of wool being spread around.
As has been said basic hygiene is the first line of defence followed by the mark one eyeball. The flies go for open wounds and dirty areas and you will see them circling around affected sheep when you check them every day.
In the soft and dry south east we don't expect fly problems in the spring. Before shearing we'd use Crovect if we saw fly activity because the amimals can still be handled safely and shorn, and the meat withhold is only 8 days. Some weeks after shearing we will Clik them bearing in mind the 40 day meat withhold on any boys expected to go down the road for a career change.
We had no blowfly trouble last year: one ewe looked in trouble but turned out to have a cut which was attracting the flies but the Clik was still protecting her. If you do get a strike Crovect is an instant treatment - Clik doesn't kill, it interferes with the reproductive cycle.
So that's why we keep both. Different functions, results and toxicity. No substitute for RTFM really.
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As we care about what we eat and about the environment, we have never had Clik on the place. We used to use Vetrazin which is the gentlest of them all, but when our neighbour allowed his sheep to suffer horribly from fly strike we had to use a more failsafe product to protect ours. Crovect has been excellent - never had strike on a protected sheep (so far :thumbsup:). As others have said, Clik is highly poisonous - a product applied to the wool but with a meat withdrawal time of 40 days scares me :o
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This is probably a bit airy fairy of me but......
If there is a meat withold time of 40 days and the stuff is so bad you have to use mask and gloves, how can it be safe to pour on sheep? I can't do them much goo surely if we musn't get it on our skin :-\
I know flystrike is hideous and I know we must protect our flocks, but honestly these chemicals terrify me :o
Is there anything out there that isn't toxic that also works?
I have used citronella before, but having never had a fly struck sheep even when I didn't use it I don't know if it is effective?
I am hoping that with twice or more daily checks and keeping bums clean I can avoid it again this year, but I do lose sleep worrying :-[
No offence intended by the way as I know each have their own methods, but OCD must be obeyed in my head so I have to ask or explode with the mental arguments ;D
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It's one of those things which depends totally on ones situation. With not too many sheep, a milder product works fine, but for large flocks, especially when out on the hill, something like Clik is lifesaving for thousands of sheep. It doesn't need to be reapplied over the summer ( each time means a huge gather to bring in the flock) , and it's pretty much fail safe. In an ideal world, all our flocks would still be close-shepherded and observed all the time, but it doesn't happen except in the most unusual cases.
Citronella might keep the occasional passing fly away, and you should avoid flystrike with frequent observation of a smallish flock, physically handling them and keeping them clean. But if there is any chance of missing an attack, then my personal view is that fly strike is too awful to risk. I use the mildest product that works in my situation and I hope never to have to resort to Clik.
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Having had 2 small cases of fly strike last year in October, :-[I am now obsessed with being on top of the problem this year. So thank you for all the helpful comments and explaining what each treatment is used for - both our local stores could only offer 'they are all much the same'! :o
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It's one of those things which depends totally on ones situation. With not too many sheep, a milder product works fine, but for large flocks, especially when out on the hill, something like Clik is lifesaving for thousands of sheep. It doesn't need to be reapplied over the summer ( each time means a huge gather to bring in the flock) , and it's pretty much fail safe. In an ideal world, all our flocks would still be close-shepherded and observed all the time, but it doesn't happen except in the most unusual cases.
Citronella might keep the occasional passing fly away, and you should avoid flystrike with frequent observation of a smallish flock, physically handling them and keeping them clean. But if there is any chance of missing an attack, then my personal view is that fly strike is too awful to risk. I use the mildest product that works in my situation and I hope never to have to resort to Clik.
Thanks Fleecewife!
I do tend to worry overly, so it is interesting and reassuring to hear others views. I also forget that not everyone has it as easy as me with a few pet sheep and no farm to run! I would die of worry if I had hundreds of the little buggers ;D :sheep:
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It's interesting to read of peoples' different experiences of different products. If you can't shear for three months with Clik, I will stick to Crovect which has always cured all cases of flystrike except the one lamb I lost which was too far gone. I wouldn't want to not shear my sheep before the hot weather (not that we get much!).
Re. citronella, it has never been very effective for me - it is the main ingredient in many horse fly products but I just see the buggers settle back on them the moment I've sprayed! ::) Having had the cases I've had with my sheep, there is no way citronella would have done anything - and I don't have a large flock (this year is the most I've ever had!).
In my experience the flies can strike whether or not your sheep is dirty - most of the cases I had the sheep were not scouring and had clean fleeces.
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Thanks Remy, thats interesting.
I wonder then if in fact some breeds are less likely to get struck, or are able to clean themselves or flick flies away or something?
Mine have always been shetlands of shetland crosses and like I said as yet not one case?
The citronella I used was home mixed form a bottle of essentail oil, but I haven't alwways used it and I don't want to rely on luck forever :-\
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I too, like vetrazin.
But I believe they have stopped making it, so I shall have to look at other products this year.
With Wilts, preventing strike is relatively easy - ignore people who say they 'don't' get struck, they do, it just doesn't happen very often. Like all horned sheep they have glands at the base of their horns, so a teeny squirt there and a little bit around the back end (not a full arc like the instructions say) works. They are only really likely to get struck in warm autumns, the fleece really is too short when it has just been shed.
My wilts halfbreds are also less prone, and I tend only to shear a stripe down their backs. they still get a whack of vetrazin though.
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Theres another one from Novartis called Clikzin which came out a year or so ago and is slightly less toxic for handlers and has a 7 day meat withdrawal period. But it's effective for only 8 weeks not 16.
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice cos there's no easy answers.
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Thanks everybody I found this an interesting thread
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crovect worked for me in a day after 1 bad case so will stick with it for the duration
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Have you read the other thread on this though?