The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: plt102 on March 16, 2012, 01:29:45 pm
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Hi there,
We were expecting our first lamb to appear in about 6 weeks as we had been watching our ram carefully and counting the days. We must have miscalculated or he must have been very busy when we weren't watching.
Anyway, honest mistake to make for a begineer but now I am in need of some advice.
We were due to do the 2nd booster vaccination of our ewes next week (4 weeks before lambs were due). I guess we now should not do this but rather wait until all the lambs are all out and a few weeks old and then vaccinate everyone from scratch. Advice on this would be very welcome.
Also, I have a ewe who has a healthy looking lamb but she is a greyfaced dartmoor and very long wooled. The lamb has managed to latch on with some help from me but I don't think her milk is flowing. I tried to milk her a little with no success. Any tips on this would be good to try to get her flowing. It looks like she has another littleun on the way so I have left her quiet in the barn for a bit and perhaps I'll try again then. I gave the lamb a couple of ounces of replacement milk with a bottle to make sure he is Ok and I have colostrum at the ready depending on your advice. I have iodined its belly and it is warm and nearly dry.
If she has a second on the way (showing all the signs), how long should I wait before trying to help her. Should I give her a few hours? She is about 18months old and these are her first lambs so I know it can take a little longer.
I have read all the books but must say panic is brimming up now so any help would be gratefully received. Thanks. P
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Hi plt102, not responding as an expert by any means....
I wouldn't worry about vaccinating, I didn't get mine done as I thought mine would come earlier than they did (I bought them in lamb) and I had missed the 4 week date. Not everyone vaccinates anyway and best to use the bottle up in one go if you can (postings elsewhere on here about keeping hepvac in fridge, clean draw off etc).
Can't help on the ewe as I have only done 2 and they did it all by themselves. Is she showing signs of straining yet? I would keep an eye on her rear end to see if anything is coming through. The worst is head only which needs a quick response otherwise you have time to think and breathe... Do you have a friendly neighbour who can come over and look at her?
Re lamb - it really does need to get colustrum, so I would tube it - no harm in giving it. Also have you removed the wax plugs - i couldn't get any milk either and thought it was my technique. Neighbour unplugged the teats for me and then flow was good. You will need to upend her to get into unplug them. Also if GfD's you need to dag away to remove wool so lambs can get good access to teats. As someone said on here they are pretty dim and go too high, so they need a bit of steering.
Hope it all goes well.
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Thanks alot, I'm going to go out and check on her now. There wasn't anything showing but she was panting a bit and pawing the ground so I thought I'd give her some time. If nothing is showing now, I'll take a pair of scissors and clear the way a little. I don't want to stress her with the shears as we only have electrics.
I'll check her teats again and see if I can remove the blockage and if not, I have colostrum ready. As the little one has already taken a little from the bottle, I might put it in that as time is running short and I have not tube fed. It seemed happy to suck from the bottle last time and still went back to the teat so I think I'll be OK.
I'll update later.
P
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If the ewe is pawing the ground and panting it sounds as though she is getting ready for the next arrival.
Try and give her a bit of space to get on and do what she nees to do, i.e. don't start to intervene unless you think there is a problem. Normally the second one will come fairly soon afterwards but I have had GFDs where it has taken up to a couple of hours. Certainly don't start trimming away at this stage - there will be plenty of time for that after the lambs have bonded with Mum.
If the first lamb isn't suckling make sure you get colostrum (not milk) into it. Ideally within the first hour. At least it looks as though the lamb is trying to do the right thing. GFD lambs can be pretty gormless and having a shearling as a Mum can sometimes add to the fun and games. Once Mum has had her second lamb and has bonded with both lambs you can spend time trying to get the lambs latched on.
Once you have cleared the waxy plugs, make sure the colostrum is coming through OK.
Regarding the Heptavac P - you mention a 'second' booster - have you already given the ewes a booster this year? Other than the first year when the lambs get 2 doses, in subsequent years they only need one dose.
Let us know how you get on. Good luck!! :sheep:
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Thats great - so the ewes are ok for their heptovac then. I will keep the new bottle for when the lambs need it. Mum and baby are quiet now so leaving them for a bit as I don't want to disturb mum too much but have the colustrum ready for my next visit out there. Babys ears are same temp as mum and he is curled up in the straw fairly close to her so I guess that looks good. Mum was pawing about an hour ago and is now lying down quietly. Checked her back end and she is red and looking puffy so maybe there is a little one on its way but it has been 4 hours now since I took her into the barn with the little one. Any idea what is the longest I should wait for a second or is it best to leave well alone and give her time? I'll give her a little while longer then call my helpful sheep friend to see if she can come over and check.
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PS no joy on clearing away the waxy plugs yet. I'll try again on my next visit.
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Four hours is a long time. Has she had any more contractions since the first one was born?
Do you know it is definitely twins? Also, have you noticed whether the placenta has been delivered (sometimes it can be quite tricky to see this in the straw). If the placenta is there she's done.
If you have anyone you know nearby that knows about lambing I would maybe see if they can come and check to see what is happening. Sometimes if the lamb isn't positioned correctly the ewe might give up with pushing.
If you really think there is another lamb and have no-one else to ask then you may want to think about calling in the vet.
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OK, she did get rid of a long stringy thing which I assumed was the rest of the bag that the lamb was born in but I'll go and have a closer look. If it looks like she is all done. I'll get on with Colostrum and see if I can get her on her feet to let baby have a feed, then I can give her a trim as well.
I'll call my sheepy friend to see if she can come have a look. The good thing is she still looks quite content and not looking distressed so maybe she is all done.
Thanks a lot - Off to mix colostrum now.
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The lamb certainly needs colostrum ASAP and if it doesn't get the hang of feeding it will need further top ups.
Those waxy bits can be a bit stubborn but they should come out with a bit of massaging.
Let us know how you get on..
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I gave some fake colostrum - the lamb took about 40 ml out of the 80 in the bottle so I'll try again later with some more. If no success I'll get someone to help me tube feed it.
I checked inside mum and no obvious sign of a lamb so I'll leave them for a few hours now and go and give baby some more colostrum and maybe some milk later.
So nerve racking. Hope its not like this for every one. I think we will be trimming all the other mums to be so that babies can find their teats as this is my biggest worry.
Thanks for all the tips
p
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I find if you can get someone to hold the ewe for you and literally get down on your knees and literally milk the ewe it will remove the waxy plugs, it is far easier than upending the ewe and you will feel when the milk is flowing freely.
The afterbirth is litrerally a long stringy thing, with what looks like knobbly bits. I liken it in some cases to seaweed and it is very often covered up with the straw where the ewe moves around.
Best of luck with your lambs and don't be afraid to ask for help and if you are in real trouble call the vet. :thumbsup:
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Good idea to trim your other ewes. Now your ewe has passed her afterbirth the hormones should get her milk going. Once the waxy plugs are out the colostrum may be very thick and ooze from the teats rather than squirt like milk, but it will become milky in time. I have a ewe whose milk never comes until 3 - 4 hours after lambing, so I keep some frozen colostrum from other ewes to give her lambs initially. Greyface Dartmoors are time consuming at lambing, but well worth it!
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Hi there all from Hazlewood flock. Are you the guys based in the Southwest where we got Bernard??
If yes, he has obviously done well! If not, then your picture looks very like Jasper!
We are all going to get together tomorrow (there are a few of us who look after the sheep) and will try to get the other mums trimmed and we will also be checking them all for signs of labour as we were caught on the hop today. Have brought over fresh straw for some more pens and have the lambing stuff ready now so hopefully will be Ok if anything happens over the weekend. Just about to see if lamb has latched on in a short while. If not, a bit of steering and if no success a bit more bottle. Then up again in a few hours to try again. Will trim her well in the morning so lamby can find her way a bit better. It is a little girl which is cool. No need for castration for the time being (not looking forward to that bit)
Lamb took most of the packet of colostrum today so hoping that is OK and a little formula milk. Will keep checking and have hot water bottles at the ready if needed.
Will update tomorrow on progress.
p
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Am I right in thinking Bernard came from the Greenhoughs (coombe flock)? I am further east in Dorset, but see them at shows and breed council meetings!
My profile pic is my home bred ram Hazelwood Finnigan, he's a real sweetie and sire of half this year's lamb crop.
When you trim out the ewes, make sure you trim up the insides of the back legs and in front of the udder, can also be of benefit to trim some away from where the lamb goes in to suckle...sort of 'wheel arches'!
Good luck!
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Hi plt102 :wave:
...Hope lambie is doing well this morning.
-just a little cautionary note -when you trim the heavy in lamb ewes handle them gently ,I definitely would not be turning them over -do them standing up.
look forward to seeing some pictures
Tilly
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Interesting how everyone differs in their handling...I trim mine with hand shears a week before they are due and I do sit them up to do it - you can't see what to trim otherwise! You must handle them gently, I hold on to their 'beard' in my left hand and reach under for the further back leg with my right hand pulling it towards me at the same time as pushing the ewe's front end up with my left hand. I find they just roll gently onto their bum and are quite happy to be trimmed this way, I then roll them back on to their feet none the worse for the experience :), maybe I have a knack with it but I've never had any problems.
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maybe just me but i also will tip a ewe that is pregnant ( carefully) if needed I do think having an understanding with your sheep helps and my ewes are all handled in a manner to promote a stress free experience I find that over time the ewes come to "know" me and remain more relaxed. this definately transmits to the youngsters who in their turn learn and adopt the same stress free manner. If at any time I can "see" an increased heart rate then I've failed in my handling.
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Hi there, lamby doing well. I keep having to remind it to feed as both mum and lamb are very quiet and every time I go in there they seem to be asleep or resting. If I wake baby up, it goes to mum and is very hungry. Still having to show it where to go a bit, even though mum is now trimmed quite a lot but it is catching on. Got to band its tail later and might let them out for a bit today if the fog clears as I guess they should be well bonded by now and mum will probably like some grass. No sign of any more activity just yet. Fingers crossed for the other ewes. Chicks starting to hatch today as well so going to be a very busy day!
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Great news! :thumbsup:
When the lamb wakes up, does it stretch in a luxuriant kind of way? if it has a good stretch on getting to it's feet then it's feeding well!
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Hi Hazlewood, yes you are right, Bernard came from Greenhoughs. I had to check. Your ram looks stunning. Ours all look a little bedraggled and shabby as they keep getting everything stuck in their fleeces. Can't wait to get them sheared and start again.
Lamb spends a lot of time asleep but when she wakes up she wanders around for a bit then goes looking for mum. Seems to be finding the teat most times on her own now so I'm trying to leave it be as much as possible. Keep checking that its ears are warmish and that it still looks Ok but mum seems to have got the hang of it. It tried to run a little bit this morning, so funny and cute to see their long gangly legs. I've let them out into a small area outside the stable today to let mum have some fresh air. If lamb stays with her, I'll let them out for a little while this afternoon to see how they get on. A bit worried about foxes though so might coax them back in overnight,
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First lamb happy and healthy and second ewe has just lambed. Just checking if it is a twin as second ewe was massive! Thank you so much for all the advice! Only 9 more to go :-)
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Ok a frustrating week or so. 2 lambs early and now a very long wait for any more. I read that the warm weather might be delaying them so the turn in weather might chivvy them along. They look fit to pop but showing no signs yet. Tick tock...