The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Buffy the eggs layer on March 11, 2012, 10:23:36 am
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Hi All,
as a result of all the enquiries that I recive about keeping poultry from new owners I decided to put together a booklet complete with photographic illustrations.
21 chapters and 10,000 words later a friend suggested that I publish is as a guide to understanding poultry behaviour for the novice / back yard keeper. A couple of pay to publish companies have had a look at it and are happy to produce it for a fee.
I havent approached a conventional publisher yet as I understand that I will need to have it edited and employ an agent as well as ensure that the manuscript is presented in a specific way. This will all cost money and Im not sure if the book is good enough or if there is a sufficiend demand for it.
Has anyone had any experience of publishing for the pet / animal care market?
Buffy
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there are at least 4 book writers on here and possibly more all in different fields to me it sounds like you have done all the work and others have to get a slice of the pie or is that just my Scottish upbringing :farmer:
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can you not publish it your self, it would be cheaper and you are the one in control, as Robert says, other do nothing and take a whack of the dosh, better in your pocket than in theirs, this is just my opinion, surely it cant cost that much for you to do a booklet, it may not look professional but it is the content that matters not how it looks.
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You need to ask yourself why you want to publish the book. If it's for the pure pleasure of it then go the self-publishing route, you'll learn a lot and might sell a few hundred copies. Lulu is a dead easy way to do it - http://www.lulu.com/uk (http://www.lulu.com/uk)
If you want to reach as wide a readership as possible, sell as many copies as possible, and perhaps establish yourself as a writer, then you really do need an editor and a literary (publishing) agent.
Yes, it's very easy to self-publish, and can be done for buttons, but to get the exposure you need through book shops, online, and in reviews, magazines and so on, you really need someone who knows the publishing business.
Alternatively contact one of the specialist publishers like the Good Life Press to see it they'd be interested - http://www.goodlifepress.co.uk/titlesubmissions (http://www.goodlifepress.co.uk/titlesubmissions)
HTH. :)
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I bought two excellent starter books from a cheap bookshop which I would thorougly recommend. Very well written and covering every aspect I could think of. Only breed missing I spotted was Crested Cream Legbars. Superb photos and the best section on coops and runs I've seen. They were only £3 each. The point I am making here Buffy is that the market is flooded to the extent that two very good books with rrp of £15 each were being sold at £3.
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markets are always flooded. if buffy came in at a new angle, ie the behavioural aspects of chicken management, then it might be worth a shot, id be interested in an analysis of breed behaviour. looking after chickens is hardly rocket science, understanding them is entirely different.
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Hi everyone,
thanks for the feedback. The book is really about chicken behavours and communication to help owners undertand their birds, how they communicate, social structure etc. I have included basics on housing, feeding, breeding etc. But the main aim was to help people to get more from their birds and learn to communicate with them.
The topics included in the book are all based on the things that new owners want to know and also reflect the questions that are posted on the forums that I contribute to.
An ebook could be an option if I didnt include the photographs. I do have a couple of pay to publish companies interested but I would have to pay for the book to be edited and produced and the bookshops that sell it would need to make a mark up on it so I might end up out of pocket or with a barn full of books that I cant sell.
I am in the process of writing another book which should have a wider mainstream apeal so perhaps I should just focus on getting that published.
Buffy
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Now that's an interesting subject little covered or even considered by many. We bought a CD called 'talking to chickens' when we first started and it set us on the right path immediately. Long before a hen is visibly ill it stops talking to us -that gives us a head start on things, but doesn't apply to cockerels unfortunately. Our chicken keeping has always focussed on communication and behaviour in an effort to understand them, rather than just keeping them. Problem is you do become very involved with the characters. Then there's the problem that different breeds speak slightly different languages but each seems to understand the others. We have a lot to learn from them.
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Buffy, go to your local book shop, look for the publisher of each chicken book, make a note of them and send a copy of your book to one. If they say no thanks, send it to the next. But don't get discouraged, it sounds a really interesting book and I'm sure it will do well. :) :) :thumbsup:
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I'd buy a copy of your book, It sound very good :thumbsup: :chook:
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Why don't you ebook it.
Grant B did and I bought a download online.
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I would certainly be interested in a copy if you do get it published.
i would rather a book than an ebook personally :chook:
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I'd have one, too, paper rather than e! :&>
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I thought about a chicken dictionary. Perhaps it's possible now that books are read on electronic tablets. Highlight the word and you get the sound played as well -or is this still science fiction?
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Hi everyone,
thanks for the feedback. And thanks Chris for taking the time to understand your birds I'm sure that they really appreciate it. Hens of different breeds do communicate at different levels. I find that the more confident and relaxed the breed then the more sophisticated or varied their behaviours.
I do cover the noises that chickens make and what they mean in the book as well as explaing body language and what these sounds and movements mean when combined. I have split them into chick, hen and cockerel behaviours and used my own photos to illustate but the idea of actually being able to hear the noise or see video footage of behaviour is even better. I will look into this as an added feature of the book. If I used an internet site to provide the illustrations then, I could produce the text in an ebook. Perhaps a paper copy for those who are not Kindle fans could work too.
The market for this book is small,
Chicken owner, who is interesed in behaviour rather than just eggs and meat, who is comfortable spending money on books.
From what I can gather from the publisher, so many poultry keepers are smallholders or backyard keepers who wouldnt be that interested in what their chickens think or are trying to tell them and if they were they wouldnt want to pay for that information.
So the market for this book is people who keep chickens for pleasure as much as productivity and who are enjoying their birds as part of a lifestyle choice rather than a true small holder who is scrimping and struggling to make ends meet.
Apparently this is an affluent market but a small one so the number of copies required would be low.
I am going to edit the manuscript and send it to the relevant publishers as suggested. I will let you know how I get on.
Buffy
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Good luck :thumbsup: The sort of folk who would buy your book are the sort of folk who buy poultry magazines and Goodness knows they sell well :)
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Go for it Buffy. I'll buy one. I always work on the basis that if the book tells me just one thing I don't know which will assist in welfare, productivity or economy, it has paid for itself.
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Let me know when it's out! As a behaviourist I'm always wanting to learn more about different species! I have yet to clicker train my birds but an looking forward to having a go- hopefully it will sharpen mento as a dog trainer! Many dog trainers work with chickens first.
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Hi funky fish,
I have done a bit of dog training myself, obedience, agility and man work. I have also trained horses, house rabbits and recently started with cats.
I don't use clickers as I prefer to use a more natural approach of voice, body language and contact. I am self taught but tend to take a "Whisperer" approach. Hens like dogs will respond quickly to training and are very bright so clicker training will be easy. Having said that I would recommend that you chose a smart but placid breed to begin with as I have found results vary dramatically.
The flight instinct is so prevalent in chickens and an anxious pupil struggles to learn. I have worked with Sussex, Wyandotte, Plymouth rock, Brahma, marans cross and my favorite Croad Langshan. The Croads are by far the most engaging, inquisitive and confiding which makes them great fun to train.
I don't train "tricks" but the croads often invent their own in order to get attention and their trusting and confident nature means that they are happy to spend time away from the flock learning new things. I find that their confidence allows them to stay calm and work things out rather than getting distressed easily and acting in panic.
Training chickens is a little like training horses as the drivers are similar as opposed to the drivers in dogs. I also find that training chickens is a thing that can continue throughout their lives however training cockerels requires a slightly different approach and is easier to continue if they do not have a harem. Having said that they have excellent memories and great spatial awareness so once they have learnt something its easy to pick it back up several months later and build on it.
The training advice in the book is kept simple and to the basics as I don't find that many people are even interested in training their dogs effectively let alone their chickens. Perhaps I need to rethink?
Great to get such positive feedback from those of you who are interested in training and learning from your birds.
Buffy
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I think the market for this book is perhaps much bigger than you think Buffy.
We did well with Frankie, Gold Laced Wyandotte Cockerel. Became very friendly. But then he met his girls !
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Hi Buffy the eggs layer
Please please please get your book out in print. I would love to know what's going on inside my chickens heads ???. At the moment they seem more like a group of misunderstood teenagers. ;D Example Why is it more fun to be in next doors garden (who don't mind, thank god) or crossing the road ( very quiet,but not the point) to spend the day on the beach playing in seaweed Rather than staying in the 6 acre field they have access to?
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Hi Buffy the eggs layer
Please please please get your book out in print. I would love to know what's going on inside my chickens heads ???. At the moment they seem more like a group of misunderstood teenagers. ;D Example Why is it more fun to be in next doors garden (who don't mind, thank god) or crossing the road ( very quiet,but not the point) to spend the day on the beach playing in seaweed Rather than staying in the 6 acre field they have access to?
EXACTLY - and why have mine after 2 1/2 years decided that the space they have occupied so far is no longer adequate??? :chook: :&>
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Buffy, I need your book - soon.
Please can you talk to the ex-batt :chook: who has just walked through the utility room, then kitchen, down the hall, climbed over two dogs in their beds, and jumped onto the 'in' tray in the office. I found her walking up and down the windowsill. Another has just flown over a 6ft fence and there is one on the top of my rotary washing line. ::) A madhouse. ;D
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Thanks for the advice! Just re read my post- wow there are some great autocorrect spellings! Damn phone hate it!
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Just re read my post- wow there are some great autocorrect spellings! Damn phone hate it!
I had the following in an email from a friend:
Hope all continues to go well with the lambing and calving (iPad keeps correcting this to carving, which is anticipating things rather!)
:D :D :D
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Goodness guys!
Its great to come across so many of you who are interested in the book. As a result I will do some more work on it and add more behavour / training information before I send it to a uk publisher.
Bert,
in answer to your question as chickens drivers are based on survival then their main motivators are nutrition and reproduction then lets start with these as the reason that your chickens stray. They usually seek new teratory in an attempt to find more food or a greater variety of food or to find a new breeding enviroment with a more suitable mate or less competition for them feed themselves or their young. In the wild they would branch off and form new groups and claim new teratories.
Other factors too are important to their health and safety such as shelter and the security of a social group. So a bird which is victimised by others or is prevented from accessing the coop or nest box will venture further a field.
They are also inteligent and inquisitive so if rumaging through seaweed is more entertaining and nutritionaly satisfying than staying at home then they will visit the beach. They have a keen sense of smell and a good memory so if the smell of rotting fish wafts their way they will remember where it came from and rush off to play on the sand.
Making their home as close to a natural enviroment as possible will go a long way to keeping them from straying. Shrubs, trees, dust baths, leaf litter, grass, insects, worms, shelter, shade, space, multiple feed stations, fresh water and new teratory are all important. The area that they occupy can become over grazed, soured by droppings and bug free. Keeping an area sectioned off and allowing them access every so often can help with this along with adding stimulating eliments to a stark or sterile enviroment.
Bramblecot,
again this inquisitive nature and a desire to find food and the best place to roost or lay will bring them indoors. I have heard of one who used to come in via the cat flap and lay her eggs in the dogs basket. And one who liked to sit on the worktop behind a portable tv and snooze.
The more scope they have, the more you get to see how much they take in and the choices that they make. I have a couple who like to sit under my chair and snooze. Not too bad when its the garden chair but when its in the kitchen it really confuses the cats! :cat: :chook: :cat:
Buffy
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Oh, I am looking forward to this book! :)
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Thanks Buffy :thumbsup:. :chook: :chook:
I would also like to second what sylvia said :thumbsup:
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Hi Guys,
I have had an idea. Why dont you let me know what chicken behaviours you would like to understand and I will aim to cover them in the book. Bert has asked about straying / escaping and Bramblecoot about exploring / venturing indoors which I will now devote a chapter to.
If any of you can think of other topics that owners would like info on then please let me know.
Buffy
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Hi Buffy. Why does our pet cockerel Bottom want so many cuddles? All he wants to do when he gets in is go to sleep under my wife's arm. When he is ready for a cuddle he either pecks lightly on your leg or starts looking frantically at the ceiling in different directions as if to say "I can't see the sun so it must be cuddle time".
Or perhaps pet cockerel behaviour is a bit 'off track' for your book.
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I've answered my own question Buffy. We have new chickens, another three cockerels who are all vociferous. Botty is just feeling insecure, hence needs the security and reassurance of a cuddle from mummy bird. He'll accept one from me as well but I am not his first choice.
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Hi Chris,
sorry I missed your post. Yes hes wanting to be brooded as you say. As broody hens seperate from their chicks at about 8 weeks of age by becoming very agressive with them until they get the message and leave her alone, this behaviour only seems to happen with chickens reared by humans. With hand reared chicks this seperation does not take place therefore some of the parent\chick behaviours remain.
the looking up as if looking for the sun is is probably him looking for a suitable position oppertunity to jump up and be cuddled. / brooded. Chicks often weave from left to right working out the best place tu burrow under their broody or encourage her to settle down and let them get underneath her.
I really do need to get that book published dont I.
Buffy
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Amazing really Buffy, he's 4 and a half, weighs 6 Kg and still behaves like a chick. He does look upwards and all over the ceiling when he is on the kitchen table and wants a cuddle, even though mummy bird is sitting down. I thought he was checking the sky to make sure it was bedtime, because at bedtime he has a long cuddle. So he has just drifted backwards to when he was a chick and is looking upwards to a phantom mummy hen?
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I'm a bit jealous ;D, wishing any of mine would be a bit more cuddly. The closest the youngest hen (born and raised here) comes to showing affection is that she pecks at my hands kind oif playfully ;D. I supose I should be happy that our boy does not never ever attack any of us ;D :chook:
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Some breeds are much more into people than others and within those breeds some have a more confiding nature than others. If you are lucky you get a very friendly one. Though sometimes their endeering little quirks can be a nusance if you are rather busy and trying to go about your business.
The hand reared croads really are the most endeering that I have owned. As a result I try my best to ensure that they go keepers who apreciate their desire to be with people .
I sold some of my hens to a lady recently who loves their friendly nature, though her husband finds that every time he gets the spade out to dig, the hens perch on it and he has to keep lifting them off before he can put his foot on it to dig. ;)
Chris,
you could be right that the lack of visible sky stimulates him to want to brood. The great thing about animals is that once you try to establish rules or patterns around their behavior there is always an exception. ;D
Thats what I love about nature, it does as it pleases!
Buffy
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We have a house hen as well Buffy, called Daffodil. She has started to put herself to bed now by walking out of the kitchen, down the hall and into her cage in the dining room. For the last few nights (been in here for months) she has started standing in the kitchen looking all round a phantom sky before walking out to her bed. It seems as though she is looking for a roost as she doesn't get cuddles at night (often), or she is looking at the sky to check the sun has gone. Anyway, after a minute of that she goes to bed. Pity I can't ask her what she's doing? I now favour the roost option. I have never noticed the hens in the Orchard doing it, they just slowly move back towards their coop.
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Have you watched them just before they go in to the coop though? The last thing my Faverolles do just before jumping in to the coop is tilt their heads up to the sky - I thought they were looking out for predators but perhaps it is to check the level of light left?
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Hi,
mine don't do the looking up wards thing before bed but they look into the coop before going in to see who is already in and where the available perches are. I think the instinct to fly up to a tree branch or perch is what makes them look up but working out what they do and why is great fun.
I have three Croads who are broody at the moment and as they all take a slightly different approach to it I realise that explaining broody behaviour to a novice owner requires lots of caveats and exceptions.
My Sussex broody Snowy did it by the book, all very typical behaviour and was a great model to photograph for my book.
Daisy however sits unconventionally and has her hocks poking up on each side and her breast on the eggs.If she goes out for a wee she gets easily distracted. She spends so much time shrieking and telling everyone that she is a broody that she forgets about sitting and has to be reminded about her nest.
Hatty is old school and creates the traditional broody shape and goes into suspended animation, glazing over and only responding to the offer of more eggs. She likes to make time each day to get out and about and ensure that no one is getting above themselves in her absence. Blossom on the other hand likes to chat and remains alert throughout her confinement. She particularly likes me to offer her refreshments while shes brooding and will take food and drink from me while remaining on her nest. She prefers to have everything on hand so she doesn't need to leave her coop.
Its great to watch them and learn about the way they approach different situations. As Hatty is the only one who has hatched chicks before it will be interesting to see how they all differ as mothers.
Buffy
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We found out why Dilly was looking all round upwards last night. She was eyeing up the kitchen worktops to roost. Did her looking all around the sky bit but then focused first on the cooker hob and then very intently on the worktop. I took her to her cage when she aligned herself, but before she attempted the jump!
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Ah!
there you go then ;D. little Dilly bore out my theory.
I once had a horse who was turned out into a field with a stream in it. When I turned him out there I would often stay and watch him for a while observing his patterns of behaviour and interaction with the other horses.
Some times he would look relaxed with his head downwards and would amble off to graze but occasionally he would carry his head higher, looking alert with his ears forward. On these occassions he would always wander down to the stream for a drink. I got so used to this expression as an indication of his thirst that I was able to notice when he needed a drink.
He moved paddocks, and had to temporarily share a field with some very dominant horses who would often guard the water trough and prevent him from drinking. When I turned him out into the paddock after a ride I would ask him if he wanted a drink and look and point in the direction of the water. If he did the drink face I would walk towards the trough and shoo the horses away. Once I had them at bay he would follow and drink in safety.
I shared 20 years of my life with that horse so you might say that we should have had that level of communication, trust and understanding. Though some people never seem to learn anything about what their animals are trying to say to them no matter how long they keep them.
Understanding chickens is much harder than horses but just as rewarding. :thumbsup:
Buffy
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Ah!
I shared 20 years of my life with that horse so you might say that we should have had that level of communication, trust and understanding. Though some people never seem to learn anything about what their animals are trying to say to them no matter how long they keep them.ding. :thumbsup:
That is so true Buffy. My two working spaniels were like that - we all knew what we wanted from each other and it makes for a happy co-existence.
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Hi Everyone! :wave:
I thought that those of you who were interested in a copy of my book on chicken behaviour and communication might like to know that it will be available in the new year. :excited:
Its called Talking Chickens and is full of information on what chickens do and why. Including the sounds that they make and what they mean. Each chapter is illustrated with colour photographs of my birds displaying everything from dustbathing to brooding. :chook: :chook: :chook:
The book will be available in paperback at £9.99 and in all e-book formats and is available to order direct from York Publishing limited.
If those of you who expessed an interest in would like to reserve a signed copy please pm me with your email adress and I will add you to my mailing list. :eyelashes:
Thanks again for all your positive encouragement and ideas.
Buffy
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Congratulations! I didn't see the original posts, but just spotted yours. Very pleased for you. Make sure to ask the publishers to send a copy to Country Smallholding magazine and feature it on my book reviews page.
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I still want a copy of your book when it comes out :thumbsup: :excited: :thumbsup: .
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Just noticed your personnal details. My sister-in-law (a horsey person of repute) has called me the 'chicken whisperer' for several years now. Would still like a copy of your book though please.
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Hi Chris,
from your previous posts I would agree that you certainly are a chicken whisperer and the more of us there are the merrier!
Thanks for visiting my Chicken wisperer blog . I plan to up load a few more articles this week and start a regular feature on training chickens next week. I plan to start breeding large croads next year and will be incubating the eggs in Jan. I was intruiged and inspired by your observations on your chicks forming into flocks and thought it might be interesting to record my chicks development.
I have just been sent the page layout designs to proof and a couple of front cover mock ups so everything is under way for a launch in Jan. I will hopefully be sending e-flyers out in Dec to all those who have expressed an interest in the book. I will contact you before I sign the personal copies to finalise details.
Do feel free to comment on my blogs as I would love to hear about your chicken observations.
Keep Whispering!
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Buffy, if you put your blog URL under your posts we can all visit! :&>
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Aw NorthFife,
you 're are such a clever little duckling! :eyelashes: the address is www.thechickenwisperer.co.uk (http://www.thechickenwisperer.co.uk) but I will stop writing blogs for a moment and update my profile as you suggest. ;)
I plan to add some more photos and blogs this week including a guide to dealing with broody hens and an update on Eileen the poorly hen so there should be more to read about over the coming days. I have almost finished the 10 secrets to training your chickens and will upload those about once every two or three weeks.
Rosemary has kindly offered to review the book when it comes out ( gulp! no pressure there then :-\ ) so I'm hoping that she gives it a thumbs up :thumbsup:
Thanks again to all of you for your support :hug:
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nice blog, BuffySue ;D . OH noticed that you are following us on his :wave: :&>
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Hi little Duckling,
I'm glad you enjoyed my blog. I really enjoyed your blog too. the books that you feature are so unusual and I love the photos of the sky and the clouds. My sister moved to Fife in August and I havent yet managed to get my act together and visit. Your photos make me feel a little more familier with a place I've never been.
Have you read Gavin Pretor- Pinneys book the cloud spotters guide? Might be a good stocking filler for OH?
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Great tip, will have a look! :&>