The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Frieslandfilly on February 09, 2012, 11:23:01 am
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I went out to the paddock this morning and one of the sheep is 'down' I have bought her in put her in a pen with plenty of straw and a heat lamp in case it is the cold, we have had sustained frozen ground for about a week now. They have regular hay and nuts at night, her temp is 38.9 and she is not in lamb. She wont eat or drink and cannot stand up even with help, have tried a warm bottle of lamb milk, not interested, what else can I do. Worm count was checked in the summer, count was negligable so not wormed.
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The first thing I would do is to give her a long-acting antibiotic suitable against pneumonia as this is a big risk in any sheep which is down. That doesn't help her immediate problem but prevents a further complication developing.
Is she thin? Feel along her spine and her hip bones.
What age is she? If old, check she has teeth.
She may be being bullied by the rest of the flock so she can't get to the food. With both these possibilities she will need some energy. A dose of Calciject from the vet may well help to kick start her, but that has to be followed with food, and digestive biscuits, pushed a tiny piece at a time onto her tongue, checking she crunches them, might help. If she can't do that, water with sugar or glucose dissolved in plus a tiny amount of salt will help - syringe it onto her tongue from the side and check that she swallows.
To stand her up, this might take two people to hold her (without putting any pressure on her abdomen), but she will need to stand to burp and pee and to keep her blood circulating and prevent pressure on nerves, every two hours.
As you don't know why she is down my overall advice is to consult the vet. You could phone for advice or you could load her into a vehicle and take her to the vets, but with whatever you do you need to act promptly.
Is there any chance this might be fluke? mention that to the vet too.
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Exactly what fleecewife said....and get vet advice asap! Are you completely 100% sure she is not in lamb? as if she is could be twin lamb disease.
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OK, she is 9 months old and one of only two so no problem with bullying, I have just managed to get her to take some sugar water which has shown the first bit of improvement for 4 hours she is trying to get up but only back legs working at the minute. Stools are normal and she has just weed! Read somewhere about calcium and snowcovered ground being a problem, she was in with a young ram (he was 6 months when he went to slaughter, it is possible he was fertile by then?? Although she does not look pregnant and there is no milk at the teats nor are they swollen in any way, am i looking for the right signs?
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I don't know much about sheep but if your ground is frozen chances are your drinkers are too (my neighbour says sheep don't need drinkers but i've seen them using the lower cow troughs) and it may be a mixture of dehydration and cold (you say they get nuts at night well too many nuts and not enough water can lead to salts building up(this happens with pigs), would persevere with hydrating her with sugar/salt solution and ask the vet to put out an anitbiotics jab for you/someonelse to collectand a pack of electrolyte mix both won't do her any harm and may do some good. Ringing and talking to the vet costs nowt so get on the phone.
Hope she's ok
Mandy :pig:
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she was in with a young ram (he was 6 months when he went to slaughter, it is possible he was fertile by then?? Although she does not look pregnant and there is no milk at the teats nor are they swollen in any way, am i looking for the right signs?
Very possible he was fertile. I would get some twin lamb drench into her ASAP, even if she is not in lamb it will still help. I think you need either a vet or an experienced sheep keeper to have a look at her.
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Ok thanks everyone, I will let you know how she gets on
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She could well be in lamb, and being so young with no special care this could be the cause of her collapse. Calciject injections need to be given promptly and if this is the problem her recovery will be within about 20 mins after injection. I haven't used twin lamb drench but it would also need to be given promptly.
What age was she when the ram lamb went for slaughter and when was that? She may well not show much extra size, especially if she is otherwise thin, and she would only show udder swelling a few days or up to a couple of weeks before lambing.
It is as well to assume that ram lambs are fertile from 4 months and to separate them out then.
Fingers crossed for her :sheep:
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My ewes have suddenly started drinking, with the frozen ground plus they now get lots of haylage, some concentrate and have a lick in, so I have to top up the water bucket twice a day (until the lick went in they never touched the water!).
If there is a possibility of this ewe lamb being in lamb, she will need drenching plus calcijecting ASAP. When did the tup lamb leave? If it is coming up for five months since he went she could be nearly lambing, and even if she only caries a single would struggle in the last few weeks with only a maintenance ration as opposed to a pre-lambing ration.
If you cannot separate ewe lambs from entire tup lambs by 4 months, it is safer to ring them early on.
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We have just had our supposedly "untupped" ewe hoggs scanned - they had ram fat lambs with them a little while longer than was ideal... 10 out of 13 are in lamb... ::)
So yes I would assume your girl could be pregnant. She needs treating for Staggers - my vet's Guide to Staggers is reproduced here:
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=12927.msg136877#msg136877 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=12927.msg136877#msg136877)
The signs of pregnancy you were looking for (milk at teats, swollen teats) are very late, nearly lambing, signs. They can go down with metabolic disturbances long before they have any udder development or other signs of being in lamb.
I have been advised that it's best not to move them if they go down with staggers but I hear what others are saying about burping and peeing - so I'd have to take veterinary advice on that one.
I'm late coming onto the forum today so I hope your wee lass is up and eating now.
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Sally, term staggers is associated with Magnesium deficiency which sheep get after lambing when lactating heavily on lush grass.
I am guessing you mean calcium deficiency - milk fever which they get before lambing.
If she is only nine months old I would say she is unlikely to be close enough to lambing to have a metabolic disorder associated with pregnancy such as calcium deficiency or twin lamb disease. I would be very surprised if such a young ewe would have taken the ram before December in which case she wouldn't be due to lamb until late April.
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Fluids are most important, if she hasn't been able to access water that would weaken her considerably. Apart from that, get the vet!
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There is some great advice here - but in all honesty I would have been to the vets already earlier today if I was you.
Baz
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Sally, term staggers is associated with Magnesium deficiency which sheep get after lambing when lactating heavily on lush grass.
I am guessing you mean calcium deficiency - milk fever which they get before lambing.
Strictly correct of course, but the farmers around here call all in-lamb or recently lambed ewe downs as Staggers, hence the vets do too. The beauty of our vet's advice is that you don't need to know which deficiency it is, you just follow the dosing regime for the stage of pregnancy / post partum she's at. Simples! ;) :D
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Hi all and thanks for the input, here is an update, I called the vet for advice who was next to useless compared to the advice I got on here. She was reluctant to come out from the information I had given her, as she said she probably wouldn't have much idea of what she was treating?? Given that they are about 2 hrs away and that snow was forcast plus she had been called down from upstairs to take the call so i assume they were busy, she probably thought it was not worth it!!
I will probably review my choice of vet, but there are not many farm vets around here, I called my daughter to get hold of the drench, in the meantime I gave her some sugar/salt water, sat with her and got her to stand every couple of hours, which was quite a task as she was unable to take her own weight. We gave her the drench at 4 and again at 10, this morning she is standing of her own accord and she has drunk water from the bucket although I did have to take it to her. So all in all an improvement although she is still stood with head hung so not out of the woods yet.
On the subject of the possibility of her being in lamb, i looked up at the key dates for someone to ponder over, the ram was born in middle of Feb and went to slaughter the second week of October, so around 8 months, clearly then old enough from what has been said! The ewe was born first week of April making her 6 months at the time he went, she was a small lamb which is why along with one other they did not go at the same time. Is this too young?
I realise I may have been incredibly stupid so constructive criticism only please ;D Along with a maurauding fox that has reduced my poultry numbers, a horse that has broken the bolt and got out of the stable, and a dog that has run away twice over that last couple of days, because someone left the gate open (not me) I was quite ready to jack it all in!! Today is another day though, and as the good times far outwiegh the bad I will stick with it :P plus of course I love it ;D
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Hi FF
That's all encouraging :thumbsup:
Did you give her the antibiotic injection?
Have you got some food into her?
A small 6 month old ewe lamb may well not have been old enough to take to the tup lamb, but the possibility is still there. Only time will tell, so meantime treat her as if she is in lamb.
Good Luck :hshoe:
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Aye, don't beat yourself up FF, we all have days/weeks when it all goes ****-up! ;)
I'd agree with FW, it's unlikely but possible she's in lamb so it would be best to treat her as a lamber, just in case. If the tup lamb went mid-Oct then she could lamb anytime up until mid-March.
And yes, getting her eating well now is the priority.
As soon as she is recovered from her immediate problems she should have Heptavac-P or Covexin-8 injections so that the immunity to clostridial diseases is passed onto the lamb. But she needs to be well herself before being vaccinated.
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Yes I would keep on with the drench as long as she is not eating really well. and then putting her onto a good lambing ration as she would be well into her last 6 weeks if in lamb. It won't do her any harm to eat more even if she is empty. I would have a bottle of Calciject and a prelambing lick for her too.
Def Heptavac booster asap, she would be due one anyway, and you can do your other sheep/lambs at the same time?
I am though horrified that your farm vet is 2 hours away - even if they were outstanding, if you can get anyone closer it must be better for you and your animals.
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Hi all, good news, she is bright eyed this morning, eating, drinking , baaaaing!!! I will indeed treat her as though she is in lamb, as you say if she is she should have lambed by the later part of March. If not she will go to slaughter as oringinally intended along with her 'sister'. Although i will find it a struggle after getting rather attached to her over the last couple of days. I could keep her back and change her tag but I am a bit worried that she would not be a good choice for a breeding ewe as she is quite small, besides I think I need to do some research and have good healthy stock for breeding purposes. If she does lamb and all goes well then she will obviously stay by default!
I have a couple of questions that occured to me during this, is Calciject available over the counter or is it prescription? Likewise with the antibiotics, I have only ever given them for any animal after a call out from the vet, forgive my ignorance but do you have a general antibiotic on standby at all times and can you just get it from the vet for no other reason than that or do they have to prescribe it first and then a continued prescription?
Thank you so much for all your advice, it really is like having friends on the end of the phone that you can turn to in times of need ;D
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I'm glad she's up and about today - great news :thumbsup: :sheep:
If you have only a couple of sheep it's not worth buying in a 50ml bottle of antibiotics as they quickly go out of date. The same with Calciject. It suits us to have them in stock although we throw out most of the contents once they reach their ubd. From experience, the time you need these meds is on a Saturday night when the vet is closed and will not be open again until Monday. If you don't carry them as stock items, then you will be less likely to use them, to the possible detriment of the sick animal. Reaching into the cupboard is so much easier than getting to the vets surgery. With sheep in particular, speed of treatment can make the difference between them surviving or dying.
With situations such as yours, where a sheep was found having been 'down' for an unknown period in the night, the very first thing it needs is an antibiotic injection to prevent pneumonia - downed sheep are VERY susceptible to this - I would say that you are lucky with yours if she didn't have the antiB.
If you need a single dose of any med from the vet, then you must get it for the specific incident so yes, you must speak to the vet direct. For buying a whole bottle, we get these when we are preparing for lambing and simply ask at the desk. Our vets used to rotate the antiB they used each year, so everyone in our area would be using the same one at any time, but they stopped doing that a few years ago. Some sheep keepers use a lot of antibiotic and others, like us, might only use 2 or 3 doses in a year - or more if we have problems. The downside of antibiotics is the development of resistance, so we must use them responsibly so if your vet doesn't know you he/she may prefer to prescribe as needed.
Calciject is also part of the lambing kit - just be sure you get one suitable for sheep, with the appropriate sheep dose marked on the bottle. When a ewe needs Calciject she needs it immediately so unless your vets is very close or you have a neighbour who carries this in his/her lambing kit and you can borrow some, it could be worth carrying it yourself.
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Thank you for that information Fleecewife :D When we had the vet out out another lamb last Spring she talked of a 'pool' for smallholders like me with only a couple of sheep but she found the logistics of it too complicated, we are very few and and between here being mostly surrounded by Arable farming, which is why we lost a farm vet practice that was only 8 miles away, you very rarely see sheep here, there are two large flocks I can think of about 4 miles away and the radius after that is probably a good 15 to 20 miles before any more!! Which probably tells me it is not a good area for sheep thinking about it!!!!!!!!! It is mostly, Cattle, Stud farms and Arable.
I will definitely have to get some equipment in for lambing, just in case. :sheep: ;D
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Very glad to hear she is rallying. Well done for all your care. :thumbsup: :-*
Which probably tells me it is not a good area for sheep thinking about it!!!!!!!!! It is mostly, Cattle, Stud farms and Arable.
Farmers will make more money growing crops if it's a good arable area, so wouldn't have sheep year round, if at all. It doesn't mean it's not suitable for sheep, only that there'll be more profit in arable.
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Glad to hear your little ewe has started to pick up! In my post - 'First Aid kit for Sheep' I've asked some similar questions to you about how to get an antibiotic. I hope your ewe continues to improve! Well done!