The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: pedigree porker on January 28, 2012, 06:22:33 pm
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We have never had goats before, we have pigs, chickens and ducks. We are looking at getting a young Alpine female, any advice and tips appreciated ie can they be electric fence trained, dos and don'ts
Thanks
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They like company so you would need more than one. You need to check what you have growing in the area you are hoping on keeping you goats in as they can't eat certain things - eg. Yew, certain plants, certain shrivelled fruits etc. They aren't much for grazing but do love browsing in the tree's or bushes. Mine do respect the electric fence and I have 2 separate area's for goats and another fenced off for my sheep.
Are you planning on mating or having goats for milk? There are also the commitments of milking twice a day, worming, lambivac injections and fluke meds if you are in a fluke area. Dependent on age/milking and so on, you will need to feed concentrates (esp. in winter). they need ad lib access to hay.
They are bright, fun animals to have around - I love mine to bits!!
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also CAE testing, see the certificate before you buy!
And for milkers particuarly, get ones that are disbudded (de-horned) to reduce accidents.
|They are great, I too :love: mine!
They will need a secure place to shelter - not keen on windy or damp weather, and need access to hay & clean fresh water (much more particular than say pigs!)
read a few goat books, check put the goat society website & the dairy goat journal ... then ignore the more frightening bits & visit a few goat keepers, you can steal their best ideas to give yours the best housing, play area & feeding stations!
:goat:
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Although not any myself I love goats and have been around a few, my limited knowledge tells me that Alpines are beautiful creatures but are one of the more lively members of the goat fraternity and I would think elec fence to them would be a complete challenge to overcome, my friend Lesley has Saanens and Im afraid I do love them to bits they are quieter and more gentle although if you could have seen Lesley and I hoof trimming the other day with Pom then you would have thought they are very lively!! I think Golden Guernsey and Toggenburgs are quiet as well. Pls also get at least 2 - as I have learned when I get mine I will have at least 2 as they are herd animals and get very depressed on their own. Im very excited for plumseverywhere as I am going to see her new kids when they arrive - take note she knows a lot!!!
:wave:
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Couldn't have put it better myself, Paul. What you didn't mention is that Curry is half Alpine and I will never get one of mine mated with an Alpine again. Beautiful, yes. Escape artists, yes. Noisy, yes. Enjoy throwing empty buckets around, yes.
Don't know about electric fencing as I don't use it but a wooden fence would need to be six foot high to keep an Alpine female in season in (so I was informed by someone who keeps them).
I would agree with what the others say. Don't get only one - they are herd animals. Do check they are CAE tested - they will have a certificate if they are. Don't expect them to eat anything - they are fussy creatures. Do enjoy them - they are wonderful.
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Same as above, and depending on where you are in the country there may not be that many alpines around (males if you want to breed pure especially). If you don't know anyone locally with goats, see if you can get some contacts from the BGS, and yes - read Mackenzie. It is not new but gives you a good idea in particular about goat behaviours, his feed advice is fairly complicated.
Spend the best part of this year finding out about them before you get some!
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Our greatest escape artist Savannah is saanen crossed with....we believe alpine! every winter her white coat takes on very dark (almost black) markings. (http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af154/itsbaaathtime/savannahinsnow.jpg)
The Toggs on the other hand stay put pretty much - yes Reggie has his moments if the goat on the other side of the electric fence has a full hay bag and he doesn't (typical male, way to his heart being his stomach lol - sorry boys ;) ) but Puffin just mooches about being mellow ;D
Have a really good trawl through this section of TAS, read the happy posts and the more serious ones but don't let the bad stuff put you off neccessarily, just let it help you understand the lessons that some of us sadly learnt the hard way. I had a very difficult introduction to goat keeping - my 4 had never been wormed or given any vaccinations at the last owner and I was far too inexperienced and lacked the knowledge to ask/check/know. As a result we lost a male kid (of about 7 months old) within a week, quite likely heavy worm burden or coxxy or possibly a mouthful of something he shouldn't when he found his way into a neighbours garden (that's when we learnt about electric fencing!) within a few months my nanny had died too due to pneumonia.
Since then I've become a member of our local goat club, we meet monthly - no question is too silly and the information and support we recieve by going is outstanding. Not sure whereabouts you are but we are in Worcestershire and I know some people from neighbouring counties come along who don't have their own club.
Some of the members breed alpines - horsehay herd I believe they are called. they have a website, might be worth having a chat?
I agree totally with Anke - find out as much as you can first, spend some time with goat keepers (if you are local enough you are welcome here anytime!)
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If you rear pigs/weaners - goats milk is one of the best (and if produced on your own holding entirely legal) feed stuffs... mine this year went mad for their daily milk ration!
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Blimey Plums doesnt Savannah go dark?? think thats a bit of Alpine for sure lolol
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;D indeed! she's pure white at the moment though - soon as we get some snow she'll go dark, its very funny!
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Here is the Horsehay Alpine website - they are about 5 miles from me - Jade (Brian and Anns grand-daughter runs the website.
http://www.horsehaygoats.yolasite.com/ (http://www.horsehaygoats.yolasite.com/)
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Thank you for all the advice, its really helpful and will take a while to digest
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All this information has got us thinking we were going for Alpines as we wanted to keep to our black and white theme (we have Berkshire pigs, white runner ducks, light Sussex, Australorpe and Langshan chickens) we appreciate its not scientific but the colour scheme works for us.
So all this taken into consideration are there any other goats that may be easier for first timers?
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Toggenburgs ;D but I am biased ;) Mine are placid, hardy, good milkers, good mums, beautiful, clever.....
but I'm sure the others will come along with some ideas too!
(PS anglo nubians would have been my first choice but they escape A LOT!)
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Well you can get Black and white Anglo-Nubians, but I have no experience with them, other than the one AN x GG I had was quite a noisy girl...
If you get Toggenbergs or British Toggenbergs (btw does anybody know if it is ToggenbErgs or ToggenbUrgs, I never know...), you can always say they bleached a bit in the wash...
(They are very placid, there a are quite a few of them, including good males, the milk yields are good.. I really like mine)
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There's a U in the spelling for the british toggenburg society. But you know how my spelling fluctuates come this time of the evening (Wine O clock) so I'm sure I use an E sometimes!!
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Try Saanans and a tin of black paint -nooooooooooooooooo only kidding!! oh pardon the pun !!!
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Ignore Paul. ;D
The Horsehay herd is where my girl went forher honeymoon and curry was the result. Simon (the male) fatehr mostly females last year and the only males where one of a twin or triplet except with my goat - one male.
AS to what breed, Sanaans are white so would fit in better that togs. Of course, I may be a tad biased but they are a lovely breed: friendly, intelligent, relatively well-behaved and don't try to escape wxcept when they are in season.
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I had an British Alpine years ago, I remember her as a big rangey goat, and STRONG! when she set off i couldn't stop her. they seem smaller now. she got lockjaw before we had any kids off her.
My love is the pure Toggenburgs, friendly, placid, love giving kisses ;D (I was blowing raspberries against her nose once, and she tried licking me, her tongue went in my mouth - YUK! LOL
- only point I'm not sure about is they are a pain to milk, that long hair gets in the way, might try trimming round their udders this year, to avoid pulling hair when milking :o.
I got them by chance, now think they are the best. Their markings give them more character somehow (as if they haven't enough)
Nubians I found too noisy. (no doubt I'll be put in my place for that remark :) )
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I do like togs and did have half share in one once but I wouldn't go as far as to snog one. Yuk!
Just re-read my earlier post and cannot believe my mistakes. It wasn't even that late either and I hadn't been drinking.
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No exerience of alpines - have Golden Guernsey, Boer and Boer X Sanaan and Boer X Toggenburg. Type of goat depends what you want from it - we dont milk and want meat hence Boer and X's. GG girl lovely but not as hardy as Boers or crosses - if you I think best of both worls would be a Boer x - ours really have plenty of milk so could rear their young and give some for milk too. But for personality and ease of keeping - I will stick to my 100% Boers - not overly flightly, dont jump, respect electric fencing and they taste good!
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Just going to put a plug in here for Old English goats. It depends why you want to keep goats.
OEs are smaller than the breeds being discussed here but bigger than dwarves and pygmies. They don't give as much milk - I get 2 pints off one milking a day, so it would be more if twice a day but not 8pints. But that suits me, I'm not swimming in milk then. OEs are hardy, real characters, very friendly, don't eat as much as the big dairy breeds and don't demand tepid water to drink, mine drink from the beck.
I've entered pics in the wether and kid bit of the goat show if you want to see some - actually I entered one in the doe class too but the pic doesnt show and since I've bugged Dan about it twice now (once to upload them in the first place and once to say she was a doe not a buck) I don't want to again :-[ but the wether will give of an idea of what they look like.
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All this information has got us thinking we were going for Alpines as we wanted to keep to our black and white theme (we have Berkshire pigs, white runner ducks, light Sussex, Australorpe and Langshan chickens) we appreciate its not scientific but the colour scheme works for us.
I LOVE the idea of having colour-coordinated animals ;D ;D ;D
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WoW what a lot of information and good suggestions.
We want the goats for several reasons including milk and meat,we did originally think of Boer, and these have been suggested, as have Boer cross.
Next question, is there anybody out there local to us who we can visit to have a look and chat about Boer/Boer cross or toggs? we are on Notts/Lincs boarder 2 mins from A1.
Thanks
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There is a British Boer Goats Society (BBGS), sure they will have contact details for someone to ask about local breeders to you.
For dairy goats you could contact the BGS?
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Hi,
I have sent you a message
:wave:
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I do like togs and did have half share in one once but I wouldn't go as far as to snog one. Yuk!
I said she loves giving kisses - I didn't say I returned them ;D. when we had that little incident I ran in to wash my mouth real quick LOL.(and been more careful since) . But some people let dogs lick their faces - after it's been 'cleaning' itself.
last years 2 kids are Togg x BS, next year I'm hoping to find a boer male, I like the sound of them but I believe the first cross can still have the dairy goat shape.
But that plan seems a long way off yet, how come some things (like tax return dates) come round so quick, when things you want seem to take forever to come round. ???
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(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af154/itsbaaathtime/millikissvanna.jpg)
Its OK - we vaccinated the goats to protect them from child diseases ;) ;D
In the words of Katy Perry - " I kissed a goat and I liked it, I hope that Reggie don't mind it..."
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I have two nice 100% boer male kids for sale if anyone is interested - pm me for more details - will be registered etc.
My experience of first crosses is that GG X Boer produce a very nice goat, Sanaan X Boers looks very much like a Sanaan but a little heavier and BT X Boer produce a very nice cross too.
I have attached some photos of each of these F1 crosses below
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I'm tempted to cross my sannan with a boer next time in case it's another male. Curry doesn't look as if he has much meat on him - too much like an alpine in shape. Anybody know any males in Shropshire?
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Lesley
If you go on the Boer Goat Members website there are contacts in
Knighton
Welshpool
Kidderminster
Bridgnorth
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Hi, we are on the Lincs/Notts border near Dunham bridge and we breed 100% registered Boers + one 85% boer, please get in touch if you would like any info or just a visit & a chat.
Regards Ann
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All this Alpine knocking has to stop ;D My mum kept British Alpines throughout my childhood and she regularly showed them ( every weekend in the summer, I was dragged along) and entered them in milking comps. When she eventually gave up just after the foot and mouth outbreak, her girls were of a really high standard. Mum preferred the Alpines over all the other breeds because of their so called faults. However maybe they aren't the breed for a novice to start with. I do remember having to help mum show the goats and even the kids were able to drag me around the show-ring :o If I were to keep dairy goats then I would go for Alpines as they are full of character.
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Curry has a bit too much character for my liking. Just as well - it'll make it easier to eat him when the time comes. He is white like mum but with alpine body which is not a meat goat.