The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: HappyHippy on January 23, 2012, 02:36:46 pm
-
Posting for info folks - here's the link to the article in Farmers Guardian
http://www.farmersguardian.com/breaking-schmallenberg-virus-detected-in-eastern-england/44343.article#.Tx1BPs_nElU.twitter (http://www.farmersguardian.com/breaking-schmallenberg-virus-detected-in-eastern-england/44343.article#.Tx1BPs_nElU.twitter)
Karen
-
thank you for posting the link i'm just begining to wonder if my odd problem with a ewe earlier in the year may have been connected to this hope not :( just got a feeling something is very wrong with her pregnancy
-
NSA have posted a warning too :sheep:
-
Oh bloody hell, more trouble!
So what can we do about this one?
-
It's not currently notifiable, so could be more widespread and confused with other conditions?
-
As if sheep haven't got enough to cope with! just being a sheep and staying alive is a challenge for them ;D
-
Isn't it just ::) :D
-
A vet friend of mine alerted me to this problem -- nothing we can do though just hope and cross fingers.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla/2012/01/12/schmallenberg-virus/ (http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla/2012/01/12/schmallenberg-virus/)
-
We live in Germany, so this is a real issue for us. The sheep on our fields have given birth to deformed lambs, just like the Schmallenberg descriptions. Luckily for me they just live here. However, our sheep live here too so I have to assume that they may have also been bitten by the same mosquitoes. We had planned to have more lambs next year 2013, but are now less sure. Does anyone know...
1. The virus damages the umborn lambs, but does it only do it if the ewe gets it while she is pregnant, or would it do the same if she gets pregnant next year too?
2. Are the lambs now 'carriers' and therefore not suitable to be bred from in the future?
Any knowledge would help with our planning.
Thanks,
Laurieston
-
all good questions although from what I udnerstand there is nothing that anyone has to go on this is a novel ( new) virus strain and as such its development and likely outcome for affected sheep ( and owners) is as yet unknown.
It has now been confrmed in france too.
I know that with the BTV which we had here even vacciantion has not prevented there being continued problems in affected flocks and I would have concerns that it may be that there are longer term effects such as reduced fertility if nothing else.
-
I Looked up a link for viruses related to the new outbreak. it makes grim reading for any ewes affected during this outbreak who are not able to develop an immunity either shortly before conception or during pregnancy however longer term its looks to be self limiting by acquired immunity and only sporadically breaking out when immunity wanes. I hope no one is affected by this but I fear it will get worse looking at the damage it is already produings within the rest of the EU :(
http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/akabane.pdf (http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/akabane.pdf)
Lauriston I really hope your lambing goes OK
-
(http://www.web-agri.fr/ulf/data/Redaction/schmallenberg/carte-640-18depart.JPG)
-
lets hope this virus doesn't morph too much or we could have trouble for many years to come
-
it was only announced in France for the first time around the 20th of Jan and that map is still out of date published the 14th there have been more cases and more departments affected since! scary!!
comming soon to a farm near you :( :(
-
comming soon to a farm near you :( :(
It's already here. Interviewed in this video is a friend of mine, on a local farm less than 15 miles away. I am dreading lambing this year, we start in six weeks.
http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/02/02/2012/131253/First-video-of-suspected-Schmallenberg-cases-in-UK.htm (http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/02/02/2012/131253/First-video-of-suspected-Schmallenberg-cases-in-UK.htm)
-
I am hoping this cold weather has slowed any spread although that doesn't help if ewes were affected some while ago. I read somewhere that the type of problem and deformities seen can determine to a degree when during the pregnancy the ewe was affected. I will by treating my pregnant ewes with fly repellant until they lamb it may not make a difference but who knows......
-
We had 4 sets of prem lambs this year which is unusual for us, but our ewes go to ram a lot earlier than most. The lambs were mostly ok and not deformed so hopefully not this virus.
But we are worried about this year because we are on the South Coast and in a very fly heavy area with lots of marsh and ponds
-
Worrying.
My ewes aren't pregnant this year, but as I'm hoping to re-locate from suffolk to west wales in the near future I'm wondering if I should move the sheep ASAP (before the mozzies) or get a friend to keep them here 'til the Welsh lambing season is over. as at least one of the new (Welsh) neighbours has sheep they might not appreciate my sheep coming over (possibly?) carrying this virus.
I guess I should talk to Defra before the move anyway, and see what they say.
mab
-
Kanisha, my understanding was the the midges will have struck in late summer / early pregnancy, so fly repellent now might not do anything for an already-deformed lamb?
???
-
Hi Yorkshire lass yes I completely agree it might well be far to late to do anything but on the off chance I will continue to provide some ? protection to my ewes if at all possible whilst they are pregnant on the other hand once they have lambed I am hopeful they will gain immunity before they get pregnant again.
I under stand the most likely period to have problems is at around 40 days gestation and those affected early tend to abort later on whilst those afftected in later pregnancy produce deformed lambs;
Unlike BTV I am hopeful that this will be a relatively easy problem for my ewes to cope with its the pregnancy that poses a problem.
-
My ewes aren't pregnant this year, but as I'm hoping to re-locate from suffolk to west wales in the near future I'm wondering if I should move the sheep ASAP (before the mozzies) or get a friend to keep them here 'til the Welsh lambing season is over. as at least one of the new (Welsh) neighbours has sheep they might not appreciate my sheep coming over (possibly?) carrying this virus.
mab, if more sheep- and cattle-keepers were as considerate as you, we would have less disease all round. Bless you. :-*
-
[
But we are worried about this year because we are on the South Coast and in a very fly heavy area with lots of marsh and ponds
[/quote]
Also on South Coast (Dorset), and concerned. Last year we had one ewe lamb born with shortened tendons on front legs and she 'walked' on her knees - the vet thought it was just being cramped in the womb by her twin - but could it be this? What type of deformities occur?
-
Its hard to know from what you describe if it was schmallenberg but i would think it unlikely. lambs are born every year with the type of problems that you describe. It would probably take an unusual number of these types of deformities to raise suspicion that you were seeing something out of the ordinary.
http://www.stackyard.com/news/2012/01/veterinary/01_rs_scmallenberg_virus.html (http://www.stackyard.com/news/2012/01/veterinary/01_rs_scmallenberg_virus.html)
I also found this on testing for the protection of midges using pour ons. I found midges flying last week in their usual spot after an extended period of cold ( subzero weather. ) my sheep are now treated!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19015877 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19015877)
-
http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla/news (http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla/news)
The Defra site on the matter
-
Thanks SallyIN ;D though I still don't know what I should do yet - I've not talked to Defra or the friend yet.
mab
-
now found in cornwall, just on the tv news.
-
Aweful. :'( Fingers crossed for all your lambings.
-
Hi everyone :wave:
This new virus has been playing heavy on my mind :-\, and being on the frontline (Norfolk) on marsh's where we have lots of flies etc. I did brace myself for a hard time :-\ this year
............ but we have nearly finished lambing now, and the single Black Ewe in the flock, which I class as lucky (i`m a bit superstitious) ,has done her job!.
In the main we have had a very good lambing with lots of bouncy healthy lambs :D Lincoln Longwools Leicester Longwools Shropshire's Greyface dartmoors and a small flock of commercial sheep.
WE HAVE HAD 5 LAMBS BORN which I would not class as" deformed" but term as " abnormal", and as I have never seen such symptoms before in 20 years lambing I assume this is the new virus -- rigid fused legs and fused twisted back head. We also had a few aborted lambs in first group of ewes to lamb , but not sure if that was connected or not.
I can only say what has happened on our farm but have heard some neighbouring farms have been hit hard with many losses.
The ewes here that have had the affected lambs have all had to have assistance lambing- 3 out of the 5 lambs (all singles), were backwards and I assume that because of the fact both legs locked solid in a bent down position and also neck twisted back with head locked back could not turn properly into the correct lambing position and as the legs were solid caused the lamb to get stuck inside.
I do not wish to appear pessimistic as I say out of our 70 or so ewes which have lambed already only a VERY small number have contracted this virus.
Best of luck to you all and your :sheep: Tilly :wave:....(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae26/thomsett_bucket/P1286348.jpg)
-
Sorry for your losses Tilly, but thank you for describing exactly what happened. Now at least I can be prepared and I don't think my problems last year were inherited faults. Were any breeds affected more than others and were they served all around the same time? In your first group (the ones that aborted), when were they served please? I am already planning for next year; I think I may revert to late lambing. Lovely photo! Thanks.
-
It was good that you are able to be so positive Tilly. But I think it brings home how rampant and indescriminate this all seems to be. sorry that you have had to go through this and thank you for posting your expereiences. I am trying to imagine how it is even possible to lamb lambs with their heads fused back and front legs as you describe.
-
Sorry for your losses :(
Gosh, I didn't cotton on to the difficulties in actually lambing the deformed lambs.
Mind you, I gather that current opinion is NOT to cull the affected ewes as they think they'll now be immune?
This page seems full of info http://warmwell.com/schmallenbergall.html (http://warmwell.com/schmallenbergall.html)
-
Tilly sorry to hear about your lost ones. Glad it didn't affect too many for you.
I am also in Norfolk and so far no bad news for our flock. However a local farmer was badly affected she passed on 3 of her lambs to us. One of them we sadly put to sleep as he was struggling to drink. Out of the 2 we have left one of them has a slightly deformed leg, we are hoping this will improve with age, the other is fine. Otherwise they are both very bouncy, full of life and happy little lambs!
I have my fingers crossed that no more are affected for us and everyone on here too. Hopefully you will all enjoy lots of healthy happy lambs like we are!
-
21 February 2012 – Schmallenberg virus: further update on GB testing results
DEFRA/AHVLA
"Schmallenberg virus (SBV) has now been identified in samples submitted from 58 farms across the counties of Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Kent, East Sussex, West Sussex, Hertfordshire, Surrey, Hampshire, Cornwall and Wiltshire.
Due to the increase in reports of SBV identified in France, the areas at comparatively higher risk in the UK have been revised in line with the plume modeling data from the summer which models areas at risk of midge incursion from northern Europe.
These areas include Dorset, Devon, Cornwall, Somerset, Gloucestershire and Wiltshire and therefore an increase in risk for South Wales. The timing of the most dense plumes would have been in late October for this south west region.
This is therefore in line with the appearance of deformities in lambs being born now, assuming the highest risk period for lambs is if the mother is infected at approximately one month into gestation. The majority of the GB cases of SBV infection have been diagnosed in sheep to date.
Figures correct as of 21 February 2012
See totals at DEFRA/AHVLA
Flutrackers has a useful map showing infection areas of Europe.
from http://warmwell.com/schmallenbergall.html (http://warmwell.com/schmallenbergall.html)
-
In a way this is good news for us because our ewes go to tup in late July so they are probably a lot further on gestation wise before being infected, if they have been exposed they should now have some immunity but will that pass onto the lambs or could they get infected when they go to ram?
-
I believe the thinking is that ewes should go to the ram later than usual ie more like december to gain maximum immunity and also hopefully when midges are not flying.
-
Hi
just thought it would be usefull for everyone to see this thread on another forum I visit.
http://farmingforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=73113 (http://farmingforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=73113).
looks like its still doing the rounds. If its hitting cattle its going to be hitting sheep as well. Not a problem now unless you have just tupped your ewes. could be good if they get it now and have imunity before most of us put our tups to the ewes in the next month or two.
food for thought!
-
Well we had a good dose of this earlier this year, so i'm rather hoping all my girls are now bitten and self vaccinated but wont really know until we start lambing. I think it's going to be more of an issue for farmers up country this year, although i've seen in the Farmers Guardian talk of a vaccine soon.
-
OK so it's definitely circulating the SW then.
I tried to comment on one post over there but apparently my account, though activated, is still waiting in a moderation queue - since 26th August! ::)
There's a dairy farmer saying "annoying as it will be a few dead calves won't be the end of the world" - I presume the disease can cause the same deformities in cattle foestuses as they do in sheep? And presumeably that would mean caesarians?
-
And there was me just about to Crovect my girls as the midges are annoying them like mad. I'm wondering whether I should hold off a few weeks now and let them get bitten. Crovecting at tupping isn't good for the ram though is it?
(South Wales)
-
Crovecting at tupping isn't good for the ram though is it?
Blimey, you don't want him getting it on the end of his wizzle, that's for sure! :o
-
Right yes, indeed!! They will have to stay Crovect-less then until after tupping. (I only use it for lice prevention usually anyway).
-
My lot have all been tupped bar one shearling, so i'm also hoping the sheep have exposed themselves and been self vaccinated....
-
Oops! just read that back and mean hope the sheep have been exposed! what a mental image of ewes exposing themselves!! :o
-
;D ;D ;D Just what kind of sheep are breeding Hazelwood! brazen husseys? I'm hoping all my girls are exposing themselves or i'm in for a very quiet winter, though judging by the raddle marks my boys have been working hard
-
I notice that there is a case reported in Leicestershire - so its coming northwards, and still a few weeks of midgy season to go. I wonder if we should delay tupping this year?
-
I notice that there is a case reported in Leicestershire - so its coming northwards, and still a few weeks of midgy season to go. I wonder if we should delay tupping this year?
All things being equal, it'd be better to let the midgie season finish, or be sure your sheep have had their dose of SMV, before tupping, I agree.
-
Now found in Wales ...
http://www.farmersguardian.com/home/livestock/schmallenberg-discovered-in-wales/49945.article (http://www.farmersguardian.com/home/livestock/schmallenberg-discovered-in-wales/49945.article)
-
I've been hearing stories about its being far more widespread earlier this year than was reported; farmers initially unsure about deformities and strange lambs, and then, once they realised what they had, deciding to keep mum...
If we'd had a better summer you could have felt confident all your sheep would have been infected and become immune by now. As it is... :-\
And I still worry enormously about cattle - the dairy fellas are saying 'oh well, a few dead calves, not the end of the world', but not realising that it could be far worse than just a dead calf getting dropped normally...
-
Yeah I agree. I bet deformed lambs were found in Wales this spring and folks have kept mum.
Midges are out in force here in south wales, and have been for several weeks now, at least when it's not raining anyway :).
-
newbie sounding dumb here, but what is a dose of smv
-
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-diseases/a-z/schmallenberg-virus/ (http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-diseases/a-z/schmallenberg-virus/)
virus first spotted in German town of the same name and carried by midges. Came across autumn 2011 but nobody knew what it was and neither sheep nor cattle saw any actual illness until lambs with deformities started popping up first in places like fenland where the midges crossed. Then appeared in lots of other counties with those affected losing up to 15%. Most lambs could not be born naturally. I think none survived.
No known cure or treatment yet, I think, but someone will correct me.
I'm tupping late, real late in case
-
from the NSA
Schmallenberg found in Northern Ireland and Ireland.
[/size]A malformed calf born in County Down, Northern Ireland, was confirmed yesterday (1stNovember) as the first Schmallenberg case in Northern Ireland, just a day after confirmation of the virus in County Cork in the Republic of Ireland. This confirms very wide distribution of the disease-carrying midges, but the small number of clinical cases and birth deformities means Defra, Welsh Government, Scottish Government and DARD all still consider SBV to be a ‘low impact’ disease. We sincerely hope this lambing season continues to prove that to be the case, and in the meantime the advice continues to be to contact your vet if you have any concerns.[/color]
-
How are the vets taking this I wonder?
Most people I have talked to tell me that when they queried odd lambs etc the vet said over the 'phone that is wasn't SBV??
I had a stillborn goat kid, ENORMOUS with long twisted teeth and my vet simply said it wasn't that (on the 'phone).
I would have prefered to have paid for a test to be sure. ???
-
I would be interested to know what they are testing for when they test? active virus? antibodies? Presumably if the foetus was infected in utero at an early stage of pregnancy then there is no active virus and the antibody level could be the same whether the foetus was affected or not? Ie is there a presumption that if antibodies are found this is indicative of SBV irrespective of any other finding?
Having had SBV declared late last spring in this region what would testing achieve?
-
For me, If I could be sure that my guys were hit last breeding season then I would not need to worry this year as i have been led to believe once they have had it they are immune.
As it stands I am waiting to put the tup in and send the nannies away till the midgies have gone.
-
hmmm I had one aborted foetus ( deformed) tested last year - the second with the same deformity the test result was negative all my vet said was depends what they were testing for...... I am none the wiser as to whether my flock has developed protection or not
-
??? ??? ??? oh thats horrible, I hate not knowing
That scuppers my idea then though if they cannot tell, if only there was a 100% reliable test.
But having said that, I would only find something else to worry over :-[
-
We on the south east went through this last year, I have dug out my notes from the sessions we attended then. We went to a further update for the South East a couple of months ago, and essdentially all that had changed was that they said that a ewe getting the viruis during the first half of pregnancy could risk her lambs being funny.
Otherwise this is last January's update in the South East:
"Key points from the meeting I went to run by Westpoint Vets with ADAS and the NFU
In the audience of 100 or so, of the 6 farmers that had started lambing 5 had deformed lambs. Rate was 5-15%.
There is a large amount of re-absorbsion from data from those that scanned – singles coming up empty, and twins only having singles – anything up to 10%
Lambs born can be stillborn, can be deformed with locked joints making it very hard for the sheep to lamb – one person said she was regularly breaking lamb legs inside the sheep to get out dead deformed lambs so as to save the sheep.
There are also what are called “silly lambs” – born live but with little brain development, so die quite quickly.
All you can do for this year’s lamb crop is cope.
As for future, all the following needs a big caveat – this is an early disease, with little history, however bluetongue spread (also by midges) gives us good data from past, and some of Europe is months ahead of us in lamb cycles so have been through it. There is also excellent cross European co-operation and information sharing.
However the following is best guestimates from informed sources. So likely to be true, but not guaranteed!
For sheep, once infected they show no signs of illness, but have it for a couple of weeks. They then have developed strong immunity to it (potentially life long!). So once a sheep has had it, it should be ok.
For cattle, they show lots of symptoms that are common with other diseases, but similarly they then have developed strong immunity to it, and should the be ok.
The issue is IF they get infected or have the virus during the first trimester of pregnancy [now the first half]. Before mating or after the first trimester [now half] and the offspring is not affected. (don’t know whether the young inherit the immunity, but if meat doesn’t matter, and for future breeding as long as they get it before mating, then they’ll be ok.
Midges are the likely source of infection, and this is borne out by Defra’s modelling of midge vs. Wind and temperature that shows most danger area is where we are seeing the virus. Midges are active only at certain temperatures, and the likely period when they can affect is march to October, although that doesn’t mean you can relax on November the 1st!! [wording for south east]
Parasite control of the flock/herd may reduce spread, but standard fly protection products don’t do midges, you need spot-on. However you are too late to help this year and see below may positively want to welcome it now, so consider this before using spot-on. If you use spot-on on a sheep, then it will kill the midge that bites it, but not before it has infected the sheep, and probably not before it has infected several others of your flock – the poison takes up to a hour or so to work, so at best you might reduce, but would not protect.
A vaccine is 1-2 years away, and probably won’t be needed as by the time it gets here, all sheep and cattle should have got it (and got over it).
If you are in the south then your strategy is that for this seasons lambing, you will have what you have got now, so cannot do anything about it. If it proves that once infected you get a long period of immunity, and for sheep there are no side effects, then maybe you should hope that all your sheep get infected during this summer, and then they’ll have protection and next year you’ll be ok, as protected sheep don’t produce deformed/stillborn/silly lambs.
For cattle in the south, the same strategy might apply, hope that they get it, that you don;t get too bad symptoms (eg milk reduction) which only lasts for two weeks in any case, and they get immunity for next year.
Those in the south will also need to consider whether they should buy in stock from the north, that will be naive to the disease (not have had it), and whether to do this earlier so that they might/should get the disease before going to ram/bull or AI.
For those outside the immediate area infected this year, it will depend on how quickly midges spread up north from infected south. If slowly, then you might get several years of uncertainty (there is no live test at the moment to see if stock has had it) as to whether your particular area has got it/your farm has got it. I did ask about deliberately infecting stock so that they get it and get over it – and this might be a possibility if vaccine doesn’t get here soon.
So that’s what I learnt. In a way you should hope that all the UK gets it this summer, and then with a long immunity the worry will disappear, although we might be vaccinating future breeding stock in their first lambing/calving season to give their young protection. "
-
Oaklands, thanks so much for updating this for us. Very little information is forthcoming up here, so it's really helpful to see so much detailed analysis from an area that's been through it once.
For the first time this year, I am maybe very pleased that we had such a cold, lousy, wet summer... :cold: :gloomy: :raining:
-
I think the only person on the forum to have suffered from it is Tilly.
I've a friend farming in Fakenham, also Norfolk, who reckons about 5% of his calves had it. The affected calves were OK at birth but their legs folded up within 24 hours and they couldn't walk. He's hoping that his cows have immunity this year.
We put our tup in last weekend so that we lamb late.
-
Missed this thread until now.
With little experience of even normal lambing, we had decided that we would not lamb this year if there was a significant risk of us being affected in the spring. Foobar mentions that there have probably been cases in Wales and people have kept quiet about it. That maybe the case but farmers up here talk quite openly to us about things now and from what has been said they haven't seen anything that they didn't think to be normal and when we have expressed concern they have said that everything that happens in farming world is blown out of proportion and they don't think there is any significant problem.
Not sure ??? what to think but looked pretty horrendous to us so ...... when do people think the midges will disappear for the winter? They are still biting here. Any ideas how long it is best to wait once they have gone before putting the tup in?
-
Not just Tilly. We are in Norfolk and lambed in March/April and had a couple of cases. The worst one was a ewe who's lamb was dead. Huge size, arched back and presented with it's back to the rear, head and legs forward. Had to get the vet and the lamb came out in bits.
Also someone else a few minutes away who lambed earlier with a reported 40% loss.
Rams in now and fingers crossed for the spring.
-
Not sure ??? what to think but looked pretty horrendous to us so ...... when do people think the midges will disappear for the winter? They are still biting here. Any ideas how long it is best to wait once they have gone before putting the tup in?
Thats what you want really - you want the ewes to get bitten and become immune, so if there have been plenty about earlier in the year, youd hope if they were going to get bitten they would.
Theres plenty to go wrong at lambing, I wouldnt let this put you off, if it happens, it happens, nothing you could have done.
-
Not sure ??? what to think but looked pretty horrendous to us so ...... when do people think the midges will disappear for the winter? They are still biting here. Any ideas how long it is best to wait once they have gone before putting the tup in?
Thats what you want really - you want the ewes to get bitten and become immune, so if there have been plenty about earlier in the year, youd hope if they were going to get bitten they would.
Theres plenty to go wrong at lambing, I wouldnt let this put you off, if it happens, it happens, nothing you could have done.
Quite agree
We had it got through it carried on and accepted that this was a bad year. Every one will have one at some time if you are around livestock. I'm afraid it is a bit like living in a dream world if you think you are never going to face some problems at some time.
Yes the lambs are deformed and it's not pleasant but that's farming.
Don't let it put you off working with your livestock, it can be the best job in the world, and i'm sure there will be a new disease on the horizon just waiting to come back and bite us on the a***
-
Well the weather seems to have turned a lot colder in the last few days and not getting bitten now so guess we will wait a week or so and collect our tup. Think perhaps we worry too much but we are well aware that we lack a lot of experience with sheep. Still, I suppose it might not happen :fc: and the shepherds here have said much the same ..... that there is always something to go wrong so you may as well get on with it.
Thanks.