The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: jaykay on January 18, 2012, 08:16:07 pm

Title: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 18, 2012, 08:16:07 pm
I'm bothered about my goatling, Rowan, she's in kid for the first time and is very skinny. She prefers hay to concentrates (like her mum did) and eats in a picky fashion. Dairy nut have sorted out Ellie's weight but not Rowan.

I bought her some alfalfa pellets (which were a gamble) and some flaked maize (which I know she likes) and she's eating both.

Apart from obviously introducing them gradually to the sheep/diary nut mix she's already on, so her rumen can adapt, anything else I should know about either to an in-kid goatling?

I lost her mum to 'a bit thin, won't eat, ketosis' when her kids were just a few days old - so I really want Rowan to be in good condition (3 or 3.5) before she kids.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Anke on January 18, 2012, 09:37:43 pm
My in-kid nannies (and goatlings) get a gradual increase of the following in the last 8 weeks prior to kidding:

Sugarbeet shreds (soaked and still warm - I am a softie)
Rolled oats
Dairy nuts and/or A&P all round goat mix (some prefer one over the other ::))
some flaked maize if I think she needs it

also obviously hay and if they stop eating any kind of fruit/veg/toast they like.

I also divide the meals up into at least three, up to four in the last two weeks.

I had the opposite problem last spring - two GG's going down with Pregnancy toxaemia in the last two weeks before kidding, and I think it was because they had been a bit on the chubby side early on and it was a cold winter - so more food... so they never slimmed down enough.... and both produced quite big twins...

I was quite quick in drenching, and had to do the goatling for all of the last week (plus inject Calciject as she refused to get up). She was actually right as rain as soon as the kids were born and milked quite well. Propylene glycol (I get it from the vets) is wonderful stuff!

I would keep a bottle of PG ready plus Calciject (and/or Magniject for milk fever), and also maybe prepare to feed back some of her milk to her in the first few days after kidding.

Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 18, 2012, 09:56:47 pm
Got all of that Anke, as I have it for the sheep too, but I did all of that and more with Daisy and she still died  :'( and I love Rowan the most just like I loved Daisy the most  :-\

I'll keep finding things she likes to eat - see how she goes with the alfalfa and maize and maybe add oats and sugar beet too?
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Anke on January 18, 2012, 10:02:16 pm
Bananas, cabbages, carrots, apples and pears, also the one usually eaten when all else fails: TOAST (if you have got Marmite in the house you could try that? I cannot stand the smell of it..)
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 18, 2012, 10:28:46 pm
Right, I have marmite and i can buy some bread for toast  :D Thanks Anke  :)

None of them eat cabbage, cauliflower or apples when I've tried, nor baked potatoes  - I tried that yesterday after following the 'can you feed potatoes to sheep' thread. My poor sheep, they'd love all these titbits, I should take them some too!

Don't think I've tried the goats with carrots. They all love ivy but of course can't have too much. They all love sultanas too  :D Will try again with apples, it seems like they should like them.

Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Lesley Silvester on January 19, 2012, 12:34:35 am
MIne go mad for swede.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 19, 2012, 06:54:08 am
I'll buy some of that too, thanks - I like it if they don't  :D

The alfalfa and flaked maize seem to be going down well - she's still eating them  :) (phew)
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Blinkers on January 19, 2012, 09:40:43 am
Bananas are what all mine go made for and if they're unwell the ONLY thing they'll eat are bananas and likewise some sugarbeet and I also give a bit of rolled barley too.  Good luck.  We;re all behind you and Rowan  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Hatty on January 19, 2012, 10:10:54 am
Some thing you could try is chopping the Apples and Carrots etc. my 2 won't touch either whole but love them in little bits
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 19, 2012, 10:28:35 am
Thanks Hatty, I'll try that. I think they had them in quarters last time, so I'll try cubing them.
All these are useful treats and I need her to eat something substantial too so i hope the alfalfa nuts and flaked maize will achieve that.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: colliewoman on January 19, 2012, 04:55:54 pm
cream crackers are what get mine every time!
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Anke on January 19, 2012, 07:21:16 pm
I have a  BT goat that doesn't eat apples, my GG's were slow to eat bananas (and at the beginning only ate the peel!), but now they love them. Pears are a great (if expensive) treat.

Barley is another one to get them to put on condition.

Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Cinderhills on January 19, 2012, 07:35:35 pm
I was going to ask if they eat bananas whole including skin, so I guess they do.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Anke on January 19, 2012, 08:42:22 pm
I was going to ask if they eat bananas whole including skin, so I guess they do.

I peel them for them and they eat all the bits.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Cinderhills on January 19, 2012, 08:45:14 pm
How sweet!  Thanks Anke.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Hatty on January 20, 2012, 12:30:58 am
mine like sweetcorn too I buy reduced ones from the supermarket and chop them into slices with the meat cleaver they eat the whole thing even the hard bit in the middle

 lol I clear the local asda (only a little one) out of reduced bread, fruit and veg most mornings, only a little bit spoilt my girls hahaha
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 21, 2012, 06:56:47 pm
Ok, everyone else except Rowan likes chopped carrots and diced apples  :-\
She nibbled a tiny bit at a bowl of raisins and porridge oats but is hardly eating anything. The odd mouthful of hay.
At the moment, in her pen she has:
Fresh water, molassed good hay, normal good hay, alfalfa pellets and flaked maize, chopped carrots, a bowl of sulatanas and oats.
She is eating none of it.

But apart from this, she seems bright, interested in what's going on etc.

How can i stimulate her appetite? She's had a drench of B vitawith cobalt and selenium recently. And if she won't eat I can't see how I can get powdered minerals into her.

I am getting really worried  :-[
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: cuckoo on January 21, 2012, 07:01:54 pm
Maybe it is her rumen - could try some pro rumen- get it from the vets - drench 1/3 of a sachet for several days
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 21, 2012, 07:06:26 pm
I wondered that - so will try that, thanks Cuckoo. Can't get any til Mon now.

The other thing I wondered is she feeling queasy cos she's pregnant - and can she be given anything for that?
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Anke on January 21, 2012, 08:48:26 pm
I think one of the problems is that goats seem to be reluctant to try foods that they don't know and haven't been given when young. So you may have to struggle for quite a while if she has been on mainly a hay based diet (and that is not wrong - her rumen should be functioning well).

Also the ones that come from large herds and are fed in a group rather than individually seem to just "tuck in" as they know that if they don't it will be gone soon...

PS.: I have a goat that leaves her apples!
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Penninehillbilly on January 21, 2012, 11:03:36 pm
When is Rowan due Jaykay?

I too follow the guidelines of maintenence only until the last 8 weeks,
but up till then mine get
soaked sugar beet + a few whole oats - recommended by breeder
goat mix (molasses in- smells lovely)
mixed flaked
chopped carrots
diced bread (2-3 slices at the most- been told it can cause liver damage.

looks a lot but most is bulk/fibre

One girl esp doesn't like it all mixed, so they get their bowls with it in seperate piles, OH commented how pretty I made their plates look  ;D
same girl last year got very fussy in the last few weeks, and kept leaving some of her feed, will try feeding more often, less at a time this year.

DO you sprinkle minerals on? mine seemed to take a dislike to that at one point, wouldn't eat sugar beet with caprivite sprinkled in.
hope everything goes well
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 22, 2012, 06:45:44 pm
Found some tree twigs today that were sprouting and gave Rowan those, which she ate. Then she ate a handful of straw and of hay, one blade at a time! Then she nibbled a bit of grass and seaves (rushes) and a few chicken pellets. She's still eating like a supermodel but at least she did eat a bit.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Penninehillbilly on January 22, 2012, 10:35:09 pm
Hi JayKay
I'd check the label on the chicken pellets, some say not for other livestock

Have you tried 'readygrass' or similar, smells fresher and more tempting than hay.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Anke on January 23, 2012, 06:05:52 am
MIne get a handful of "Just grass" every so often, but again I have found that the GG's start to have clumpy droppings straight afterwards... it is a bit too rich for them.... but they do love it. The bigger goats are fine with it.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 23, 2012, 07:08:17 am
I asked the vets about chicken pellets and they said the issue was 1. They may have blood or bone meal in so the 'food chain' folk don't like ruminants to get to them and 2. They tend to overeat them and bloat,  rather than there's anything intrinsically bad about chicken pellets.

What is 'ready grass' or 'just grass' - a type of hay? Where do you buy it? That sounds like something she might like, thank you  :)

This morning she was eating concentrate  ;D I mixed some Caprivite into the IAnsons sheep flakey and she ate a good handful and was still nibbling when I came out  ;D I am running late now cos I just sat and watched her eat  ;D

I shall still ask the vet today if there's anything i can give her to stimulate her appetite.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: wytsend on January 23, 2012, 07:24:15 am
Jaykay... give me a call one evening  to discuss your goat  before she goes too far the wrong way... can happen when there are huge demands on her... pregnancy.

Layer pellets do cause bloat & KILL.    Yes normally they have have to eat a large amount... 1kg will do it... to have an effect but your girl has a relatively empty gut so the pellets might act quicker.

My no is  01647 231456
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Anke on January 23, 2012, 01:32:23 pm


What is 'ready grass' or 'just grass' - a type of hay? Where do you buy it? That sounds like something she might like, thank you  :)

Readi grass or just grass is freeze dried grass, so looks green, is usually chopped quite fine and smells definitely on the grassy side of hay... It is meant for horses and priced accordingly... "Just grass" is cheaper than "Readi grass" but exactly the same thing. If you know someone who doesn't mind pampering their equine, and has some, I would ask if you can try her on a little bit before you go and buy a large bag (it doesn't come in small ones).

Hope your girls picks up soon. If she is within 4 weeks I would drench her. Also I weigh the feed bowls in the last few weeks if I have a picky/slow eater, just so I know hjow much she has actually eaten.... it is all over the top I know, but I had two with PT last spring and it wasn't pretty... I was getting very desperate too, so I know how it feels.
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 23, 2012, 07:30:20 pm
Turned the corner with Rowan I think  ;D

She's still eating concentrates (the IAnson's flakey + caprivite)  a handful even at a time. And munching proper big mouthfuls of hay, one after the other (instead of one blade at a time and stop after three). And of course, looking at me watching her like 'what's the issue, why are you standing there and telling me I'm a good girl for eating'  ::) I think she looks less hollow by her spine.

The vet has given me a probiotic drench x2 a day for three days  (oh don't we love drenching goats) and a vitamin injection - done and dusted. Apparently the steroid injection Daisy had to stimulate her appetite would make her abort, so that's a last resort, ditch the kids and save mum. We're not there yet.

Ellie on the other hand,  whilst having a proper waist still, has the most humungous bump and is having quads I'm sure  :o
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: SallyintNorth on January 23, 2012, 08:12:47 pm
Oh, that is good news.  I hope the returning appetite continues to improve.

I actually had a tear in my eye reading
munching proper big mouthfuls of hay, one after the other (instead of one blade at a time and stop after three). And of course, looking at me watching her like 'what's the issue, why are you standing there and telling me I'm a good girl for eating'  ::)

because I know exactly how you felt.  (I maybe should explain that in my family, we cry when we are happy.  :D)
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Penninehillbilly on January 23, 2012, 11:42:46 pm

What is 'ready grass' or 'just grass' - a type of hay? Where do you buy it? That sounds like something she might like, thank you  :)

OH is a heating engineer, sometimes works on grain dryers, the 'Ready Grass' he brought as a 'sample' (3 big bags  ;D) from a dryer he worked on, so grass is cut short regularly and fast dried. I still have some from a few years ago, still smells good and I feed it to the geese when the weather is bad (deep snow). I gave goats some last winter ad they loved it, bit expensive for regular feeding but I would think it's worth it for Rowan, don't give too much at first, I would think it's like turning out on spring grass!
Glad to read she's eating a bit, hope she carries on OK
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 24, 2012, 09:50:16 am
I will try the WCF store when I can get there, they keep horsey stuff  :) I'll ring and see today.

This morning I dosed her again with rumen bugs. Hope the two doses will do as I can't think that restraining and stressing her is good for an in-kid goat  :-\

She was eating hay again, if not quite so committedly as yesterday morning. And she ate whole mixed corn, a couple of good handfuls - which I carefully spread on top of the alfalfa pellets to encourage her to eat those too and which she seemed to be picking out carefully  ::)

Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Anke on January 24, 2012, 10:13:08 am
When I had to drench my GG goatling for the best part of two weeks at least twice a day, we got it down to a quick routine and she was not so stressed about it after a few days. I just went in quickly, pushed her into the corner, so that my left hand was under her jaw (lifted her head up at the same time) and put the thumb through over her lower jaw, just before the back teeth start and quickly down with the fluid onto the back of her tongue. She just seemed to accept it, really by that stage I was a bit beyond caring... I wasn't rough, but quick and decisive. She had twins of really quite good size and milked ok, so it really was just the burden of the two kids at the end of her pregnancy. I also walked her almost every day round and round the field, just to make sure she was getting some exercise.

Hope Rowan is getting on ok - when is she due?
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 24, 2012, 12:10:00 pm
That's good to know Anke, thanks. She's due on 17th April.

I've just come out on my lunchbreak and got her some ReadyGrass. Now I want to go home and give her some :)
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 24, 2012, 05:33:06 pm
Ok, we like ReadyGrass  :thumbsup:  ;D
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: SallyintNorth on January 24, 2012, 10:40:17 pm
Ok, we like ReadyGrass  :thumbsup:  ;D
Excellent  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Penninehillbilly on January 26, 2012, 10:21:30 pm
How is she jaykay?
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Mays on January 27, 2012, 11:44:05 am
Ok, we like ReadyGrass  :thumbsup:  ;D

I also feed mine on readygrass, they all go mad for it, as do any of their neighbours at the shows  ;D

I only have one pregnant doe this year, I had just come online to get some tips on feeding as she is now into her last 7 weeks, I started her on D&H mix last week, so will introduce some oats and maize to help.

Normally, with my ewes I give them the Ewe and Lamb lick buckets near the end of the gestation, are these any good for the Doe? 
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: Anke on January 27, 2012, 06:29:30 pm
Specific pregnancy licks are not recommended for goats, but I give mine Caprivite most days when they come into the last 7 weeks - My first one is due in 7weeks and she is just about getting a handfull of oats with her handful of sugarbeet. Gave her some "cornflakes" today - they went down well (with some garlic of course!)
Title: Re: Alfalfa and flaked maize
Post by: jaykay on January 27, 2012, 10:21:53 pm
Rowan fortunately likes Caprivite and it helps her decide to eat the sheep 'flakey' mix. She is also munching ReadiGrasss very happily - as are her two little brothers and her mum - good tip that, thank you  :thumbsup: