The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: jameslindsay on March 22, 2009, 09:03:15 am
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I read in this mornings paper that Jade Goody has died. I was never a fan of this young lady but can't felp but feel moved by the tragic events in her very public life over the last few months. If the publicity, as she said, was for her childrens sake then I agree she did the right thing. Having read what a miserable start she had to her own life you can't blame her for trying to better that of her kids. Do you think she was right or wrong for flaunting her suffering in order to earn money?
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I too am very sadden at the death of Jade, its terrible that such a young mother has lost her life. What she has done for her children is something they will always remember and come to understand her reasons as they grow older. As a mother and grandmother , you never stop worrying or wanting the best for your children . Being in the public eye when you are so ill could not have been easy. Working for the NHS I for one know that many young women have now had smear test. If this has helped to save even one life then what she has put herself through must be worth it. I have seen people pass away due to cancer, some still young with children and it is heart breaking for all the family. Whatever you think of Jade's life in the last few weeks she thought of her sons and others and for that I thank her. May she now rest in peace.
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IMHO Jade died through her own stupidity,she didn't go to the docs when she should have (or so I have heard) and her disease was entirely preventable if caught early enough. It's just such a shame she bred before she died,maybe a postumous Darwin Award? Bring back eugenics and enforced sterilization I say..... Ree
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Its always sad when a life ends, even more so when it is premature. My thoughts are with her family.
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IMHO Jade died through her own stupidity,she didn't go to the docs when she should have (or so I have heard) and her disease was entirely preventable if caught early enough. It's just such a shame she bred before she died,maybe a postumous Darwin Award? Bring back eugenics and enforced sterilization I say..... Ree
The variation in other peoples views never ceases to amaze me.
IMHO Jade was exploited by the media, she has exploited them back. Would any of us, in all honesty, given the chance, not have taken the chance to provide a lump of cash for our family on our death.
Not many of us in this life get a chance to change things for the better, in a strange way Jade has done so. By raising awareness amongst younger women.
At least the media can't get at her now.
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A young woman has lost her life, irregardless of why it happened and now a young family grieve for their mum.
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IMHO Jade died through her own stupidity,she didn't go to the docs when she should have (or so I have heard) and her disease was entirely preventable if caught early enough. It's just such a shame she bred before she died,maybe a postumous Darwin Award? Bring back eugenics and enforced sterilization I say..... Ree
That seems very hard on her. Yes, she was an ostrich but how many of us are? Do you rush to the doctor when you had the first indications of any health problems? She had a bad start in life, but managed to gain this publicity and it has done a lot of good. It has encouraged other young women not to ignore their health and it has provided security for her own children She has surely mitigated her stupidity, and no-one has the right to say who or who may not have children. IMHO
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IMHO Jade died through her own stupidity,she didn't go to the docs when she should have (or so I have heard) and her disease was entirely preventable if caught early enough. It's just such a shame she bred before she died,maybe a postumous Darwin Award? Bring back eugenics and enforced sterilization I say..... Ree
You're wrong on that one Ree, and just a wee bit heartless - c'mon ?
She did go to have it checked - she'd been in hospital a few times, had her smear tests etc..................but who knows ?
I know she's like marmite (either love or hate her) and people have very strong opinions on her - that's fair enough, the media made her and people feel they have a right to comment.
BUT
NO ONE DESERVES TO GET CANCER !!! :'(
Lets not forget, at the end of the day this was a young mum, with 2 boys who did her best to provide for their future in her last few months while battling with bad health and has raised the profile of cervical cancer in young people.
I'm not preaching, or mud slinging..........just thinking how I'd feel if it was me, my sister, friends etc.
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A definate case of marmite and I agree,no-one deserves to get cancer! Ironic that the stupidity that lead to her death has highlighted the disease and possibly saved others,but I don't think beatification is on the cards,it was a product of circumstance,not design,and I won't be sat here sympathising with her family. One child dies every 6 seconds for lack of decent water,where's the outcry over that,do you see that whilst flicking through Heat magazine?
"no-one has the right to say who or who may not have children" Please don't play that card,every area of your life is affected by eugenics. You own gun-dogs,if it wasn't for eugenics,they'd be wolves and the chickens you eat would still be 1lb jungle fowl imported from PNG. All animals are sentient beings,and just because man has not turned eugenics onto man yet doesn't make it a wrong idea,the ethics come after that. If they discovered a gene that made people paedophiles,what would you want to do with that information? Breed it out of the population or allow them live in society,only to surface after the crime?
Right,I'm off to walk the dog I rescued from being put down because it didn't conform to the breed standard........ Ree
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I feel very moved by Jade, she did everything she could to better her families life, and due to her at least one of my daughters has had a smear, she also had problems in the past. Jade worked very hard to get where she did and dispite lot's of downs, she made the very most of what she could, she appeared to love being in the public eye and the attention and I think it certainly helped her deal with her last few weeks, her sons should be proud of what she has done and I only hope that her Husband will take care of them well and not blow money on drink, fast cars and women etc.......R.I.P.Jade
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My four eugenically developed gundogs have all already been walked this morning, and some training done too. My eugenically developed chickens and ducks are not for eating, instead I am happy to consume their eggs. And I still believe you cannot dictate who does what as regards children. You are not God.
Apart from anything else Jane Goody had her children before there was any indication of her cancer. She deserves the benefit of the doubt as to whether she was stupid or not. I am sure you have done many stupid things in your life too, and no doubt have also been an ostrich at times.
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Oh dear!! Mr Ree, you do have some strong views!!! nothing wrong in that, I do too....We are strange things us humans, not sure who would make the decision who could have babies and who not, thinking about dogs and breeds, I may have not been allowed to have babies as I had a congenital dislocated hip, so a VERY high hip score, my children are fine though, I also knew lot's of nurses,my mum included as well as intellectuals that chose to ignore the signs they had of cancer that could have been cured. Man people ignore things they should do, I do all the time, I suppose I am killing myself by eating too much and often drinking too much,some people smoke, drive dangerously, take up risky sports etc etc. I have strong views about not playing god but we do have to eat so I don't mind killing for food. :-X
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I didn't for one moment imply I was a god (although if there's a god of chocolate,I'll fight you for the title) I merely imlpied that genetics,however distasteful to the uniformed mind,Crufts lovers and consumers of crops have a part to play in the modern world. If one has a tool to use that could improve life,why not use it?! Stringent guide lines and ethics committees would be as equally important as the tools used.
My main problem with this Jade Goody thing is that she's being venerated and put on a pedestal.Agreed Sandy,people do the stupidest things,each to their own,tolerance is a mainstay of my psyche.And as you say,we have to eat,so eugenics is ok in that case,why not in human terms though,I'd rather live my life without stupid people around me,drunk drivers,drugged up doctors,arms dealers.
She was a Z-list celebrity (I use that term loosely),for she was only famous because of a reality program and the subsequent vilification of the press,who now have U-turned and are almost deifying her. Why aren't we discussing the death of George at number 43 who smoked and drank all his life and died from a heart attack last week? You see the hypocracy,this is the crux of the matter. If you want sympathy,it's in the dictionary between sh*t and syphilis....... Ree
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i can't stand Jade Goody - but i do feel sorry for anyone who loses their life so young and cruelly and who leaves a young family behind (though IMO the kids might just have a better upbringing without her than with her!!)
i guess, it's not so much Jade i don't like though, but the way she courted fame for fames sake, not because of talent or something to share with the world, but jsut because she wanted fame and money and didn't fancy working for a living.
i think it's great that someone has improved awareness of the illness and it's causes - even if it's someone that makes me turn the telly over whenever she appears on it.
yeah, it's great she has spent a few months providing a future for her children, but then again, the children are 4/5 years old - she's had 4/5 years in the limelight to provide for their future. maybe it wasn't such a priority for her then.
IMo she represents so much that is wrong in our society today, and having witnessed close family and friends die of cancer and not recieve the easy ride and hand outs that she has, i feel quite a bit of resentment towards her (and society in general for their response to jade but not to your average Joe in the street)
i just home the odious toley of a publicist Max Clifford doesn't try selling off "the kids" go to school, "the kids" in school play, "the kids" one year on, "the kids" Hello mag exclusive etc
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I'm sure he will. He's in it for the money definitely
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Firstly, I don't read any kind of celeb mags, I don't watch Big Brother and I don't care whatsoever about celebrities as such - people like you and me, but most of them with too much money and sometimes that is sadly all they have. If fame comes as a result of some kind of achievement it can make sense but not for the sake of being famous. What I couldn't avoid seeing or hearing about Jade didn't appeal to me to put it mildly.
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Every single living thing - people and animals of any breed, race and background - on this world wants to be happy and live a life without pain of any kind. The sentiment in a few posts does remind me of a certain society 50 years ago, which dehumanised "some" people by denying them any rights to live their lives in health and happiness with their families. We all know where that led to. In my opinion everybody does deserve some kind of compassion for their suffering, however many mistakes they have made in their lives, however stupid they may have been, including George! Kind is between kin and kindle...:&>
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Well said, Kirsten
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Thousands of people die everyday from cancer. I am sure they are all as courageous as this woman. Why should we put a Z lister on a pedastool. I am sure she will be given a Sainthood.
I found her sickening as a person before she was ill, I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone and I feel for her family. But its dominated the front page for too long. There are really more pressing and important news issues out there. Its good that its raised the profile for cancer, but I am sure it could have been covered in a less Sun way.
Max Clifford must be gutted she has passed away - thats at least 25k a week he has lost in feeding spoilers to the press.
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I am not a celebrity person really, although yesterday I bought OK, I fancied a sit in the sun doing nothing for a few Min's, if I had taken my cuppa out I would have wondered off and done something so I bought a mag that you did not have to use your brain for and some wine gums, I ate them and flicked through the photos....I understand others on this forum and I most probably will not buy another mag for years if ever but again, with modern media, TV and Internet, we have ordinary people in our homes making them more interesting than someone less ordinary. Today's 5 min fame person is yesterdays film star or probably further back warrior, just ordinary but made something out of life, however trivial. I am afraid most Professors and inventors and a lot of politicions are too far away from what people can achieve. I hate all they hype about celebrities, anyone who know me would tell you that, I was once out shopping in a market and was surrounded by men in suits and some cameras, I said to the stall holder, why are these people around, I got the reply it was someone opening the market from Corination Street, I said " I would not know him if I was next to him" the stall holder said "you are!" Anyway...whatever next????
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IMHO Jade died through her own stupidity,she didn't go to the docs when she should have (or so I have heard) and her disease was entirely preventable if caught early enough. It's just such a shame she bred before she died,maybe a postumous Darwin Award? Bring back eugenics and enforced sterilization I say..... Ree
The variation in other peoples views never ceases to amaze me.
IMHO Jade was exploited by the media, she has exploited them back. Would any of us, in all honesty, given the chance, not have taken the chance to provide a lump of cash for our family on our death.
Not many of us in this life get a chance to change things for the better, in a strange way Jade has done so. By raising awareness amongst younger women.
At least the media can't get at her now.
Ditto all that. I don't think anyone would have wanted to go through what she did on camera- but it was her last chance/option left to create a solid backup (financially) for her kids. I don't blame her for that. She wasn't the most wonderful person on the planet, but you know what, today on Mother's Day, there were two little boys with no mum to make breakfast for. And that is the upsetting thing.
Beth
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I've had very mixed (and mixed up) views of the whole process. I think I find the hypocrisy of the press most irritating. I am sad for her family, and glad that public awareness has been raised.
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Such strong views on one very young, young lady who has died an horrible death and left behind two gorgeous little boys with no Mum. It doesn't matter if you loved her or
hated disliked her she has raised awareness for this horrible disease that no 'ordinary' body could have ever done, no matter how much money had been thrown at an advertising campaign it would not have raised as much awareness as Jade Goody has done, and that can only be a good thing.
As for "One child dies every 6 seconds for lack of decent water,where's the outcry over that ..." well there is an outcry over this and huge amounts of cash raised (does all of it reach where it should? another discussion?) but this problem is immense and needs to be organised globally, I just wonder how many of us have all these STRONG views and opinions and how many of us actually do anything constructive about it, its easy to voice our opinions on a forum, how many more lifes could we save if we used this energy more positively?
As for eugenics this is a very dangerous topic to discuss, I just wonder if MrRee has children of his own? I was diagnosed with 3 brain tumours last year, I didn't have a crystal ball and neither did Jade Goody.
Compassion is free, not much is!!
Sorry for my rant.
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Mini,
I do have children,two...... and your point?
As for doing something about it in a more positive way,I worked in Cyprus for the UNHCR for 8 months helping refugees,burying the dead in their "own" country and many other facets of humanitarian aid. I fought for the KLA against the Serbs when ethnic cleansing was going on the Balkans,saw the mass graves,torture victims and lost friends in battle at my side. I spent 2 years in Iraq escorting convoys all over the country helping to build water treatment plants,sewage plants and other humanitarian aid with the Japanese Imperial Army rebuilding and refitting 52 hospitals. I lost 3 very good friends out there,(and my little finger),was shot 3 times and blown up by a suicide bomber in a car,blown up again 3 weeks later by a roadside bomb. Please don't tell me I do nothing about it positively,as you inferred.
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Trouble with any life in the public eye (for whatever reason) is that one's life raises so many different emotions and opinions in people. It was her life. She's dead. :&>
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My partner was in the forces and endured similar to what you and many others have and still do on a daily basis. However, I think you have gone off topic; I certainly did not mean to cause any offence. I will choose to end my partaking in the rest of this topic.
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Can we kind of drop this now before there is some serious falling out?
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Not wishing to upset anyone but there seems to be some misunderstanding about Jade not going for her smear test, in fact she went three times and was told there was nothing to worry about hence the shock when she was told that she did indeed have cancer. Maybe if it had be caught the first time she went then she would still be here. I am not into celebrity's but the facts are, many young people are and because of what happened with Jade they are now thinking more about themselves and going for the test. this can only be a good thing. How many have children who never listen to any advice you give but would take on board what some latest pop star or actor was talking about. Most of todays youngsters want to be famous thinking they will be rich and happy which as most of us know is not the case and one day they will come to realize this .
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Yes, I think she has boosted at least for a while the need for smear tests, at least one of my daughters had active cells at a smear test and had treatment and has not been going back for regular 6 mths check ups, when I last spoke to her it was the first thing she said, she had been, I used Jade as an example and it kicked home I think, she is intelligent and has a family, we all do it to some extent, I know I do. As I said in my last post, I really see no problems with celebratory worship! I don't do it as I do not think people in my eyes are valued for fame or wealth, me and my partner truly treat people all the same and I have met people literally from all walks of life, Princes, Dukes, Arch Bishops,(not Ducks) schedule 1 offenders, psychopaths, :o homeless, asylum seekers, actors, athlete's, politicians etc etc..I take everyones differences and value them ALL. People like to aspire to something and if people can identify with someones lifestyle and they achive fame, it can give a goal to strive for, surly better than just leading an existance?
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hiya all my 2 pennies
i can't stand her personaly,
She shoot to fame because of her faults and she turned them around to become a positive thing.
I do hope her death has increase the 'cancer is amoug us' thread. It does anoye me that for the next 3/4 months will be Jade's funeral/jade's this, jade's that.
And her kids will never be allowed to live their lives properly with out being in the eye of the public.
Let them all be!
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she made the most of what she had. you didn't have to notice her if you didn't want to. but she had two kids and left them just before mothers day. hopefully her actions will help provide for these two poor kids and promote awareness of cervicle cancer. not fond of media hype, but i have a wife and a son myself.
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Wow,you play the Nazi card and the discussion is over. Do a little research before resorting to "nazi claims" and you might find that the last person to be forcibly sterilized in the Uk was in 1976 I believe. It was happening in Australia and quite a few European countries until recently too (post wwii). Even the United States had immigration tests for intelligence,and if one didn't pass the test,they weren't allowed entry.
My comments re; enforced sterilization did in no way refer to the Nazi Final Solution,rather to a way of thinking commonly practiced in hospitals even today....
"""It is difficult to read "The Scarlet Ibis" without a consideration of the history of the philosophy of eugenics. Eugenics (from the Greek for "good breeding") aimed to improve human hereditary traits through social interventions: for example, selective breeding; enforced sterilization of people seen as genetically inferior; and genetic engineering. Selective breeding was suggested by the Greek philosopher Plato (c. B.C. 427 – c. B.C. 347), but the modern eugenics ideology, which developed from the growing discipline of genetics, was formulated in 1869 by Sir Francis Galton (1822 – 1911), a British anthropologist and cousin of the founder of evolutionary theory, Charles Darwin (1809 – 1882).
Eugenicists of a religious frame of mind fused Galton's scientific arguments with the biblical injunction: "I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me" (Deut. 5:9). In this light, enforced sterilization of those considered to be degenerate was seen as a moral duty. The Supreme Court upheld eugenic sterilization in 1927, with the pronouncement of Judge Oliver Wendell Holmes (1841 – 1945), as quoted in Trent's book Inventing the Feeble Mind, that "three generations of imbeciles are enough."
Eugenics was supported in the early twentieth century by many prominent thinkers but became discredited after World War II, when it was seen to be the key idea justifying genocide by the Nazis (it was still practiced, however, by many national and regional governments into the 1970s and has as of 2005 been taken up by proponents of human genetic engineering). The Nazis had decided that anyone who did not conform to the so-called Aryan ideal (tall, blond, of Nordic appearance, and intelligent) should be eradicated. This objectionable group included people who were different from the norm, such as gypsies, homosexuals, intellectuals, dissidents, and the disabled, as well as all of European Jewry.
While the vocal proponents of eugenics have traditionally been drawn from the educated elite, an unofficial form of genocide of disabled people was practiced by ordinary families well into modern times. Acting from the standpoint that a disabled child was a financial burden and that such a child was likely to have a poor quality of life and would be better off dead, families would simply allow such a child to decline and die. This neglect happened in hospitals as well as private homes, showing that at least some of the medical community shared this view."""
PS If you think I need sterilizing,I welcome to come visit,bring your pliers!!
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I think perhaps it's time to close this one down before we start another war! Obviously very contraversial.