The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: dyedinthewool on January 03, 2012, 09:23:18 pm
-
Hi,
With this awful weather I've started to confine my little lot of six ewes overnight to a stoned yard with access to a barn and hay, this is where they will hopefully lamb - end of Jan/Feb. OH has put up individual hay racks along one side of the barn, so they can have a hay rack each so no-one gets pushed out.
My Ram is still with them as he got upset when I tried keeping him in another paddock with the ram lambs so I relented and he went back in with the girls.
My problem is he is a bit pushy with the girls (typical male - he wants the best bits of hay) now they are in a more restricted area and they haven't got so much room to move out of his way, like in the field, so I put him in a pen of his own at the end of the barn, he can still see the girls and is quite happy there and I'm sure the girls feel more comfortable being on their own.
They get a bit of hard feed in the afternoon and are then shut into the yard. It does mean I have to 'handle' him to split him off from the girls when they come in.
He tends to put his head down and make as if to charge/butt but at the moment stops short of contact, usually because I growl at him and do a 'Barbara Whitehouse? hand up and firmly say NO!! it's when I'm trying to get him into the 'alley' to his pen. (The 'alley/race is just two hurdles within the barn down one side making a 'race' with a gate at the end to his pen) The annoying thing is he knows what I want him to do and after the first tussle he goes straight down and into the pen and then looks at me as if to say ' I know what you wanted I was just being awkward...'
I don't know what to do to stop him rushing at me - I don't want to make him 'unmanageable'. Basically he very friendly - likes his ears/head/chin scratched and once I get him going the right way is obliging.
Does anyone have any tips/tricks about handling him - Things NOT to do and things that I should be doing.
Any advice gratefully received
-
What breed are they? We've got a small flock of Hebrideans who are incredibly flighty. If I need to catch one, or more, I put hay or feed down so that they are eating and don't look at me. Then I grab the scruff of the neck and a horn, leap the fence (it's terribly impressive, as you can imagine) then straddle them and waddle them out. Works for me!
-
Dizzycow...!! ::) ::)
You're a hoot.. ;D
I can see you doing it now.
Unfortunately my lad is Charolais x Dorset and quite big and I'm not in my prime (like you) or him so no leaping about I'm afraid...
-
Goodness gracious. We had Charolais when I was girl. They were cows, so no wonder you're struggling to straddle the bugger. If you didn't see it, then this might make you feel better, DITW. :P
Cow slips on ice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZU-owLWV3Q#)
;D
-
AHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
That must be the reason I have a bad back................!!!!!!!!!!! :dunce:
Never thought if i put a saddle on him it may be easier ;D
Did miss a (l) in the Charollais spelling.
-
Crikey, I've no idea about the spelling! Maybe it's different for sheep and cattle?
Our cows were great and gentle beasts. I was enchanted as a child by being able to stroke them and have them lick my hand. Not after their huge tongues scooted up their nostrils, as was one of their habits.
I feel that a little halter on the sheep should be sufficient, but Hebs are wild beasties. A friend of ours has very tame and fat sheep, don't know what they are, but they're amenable. I like the saddle idea very much! :)
-
The way I stopped a ram butting me was to grab him by the horns and turn him on his back he soon got the message that I was not to be messed with I find its not good to get to friendly with a ram. I would separate him in case he causes any damage to your pregnant ewes
-
Sounds like you are managing him just fine in the circs. Much better to use charisma than a stick - he might decide to fight a stick.
We've had two Charollais tups (yes, bizarrely it's one-ell for Charolais cattle, two-ells for Charollais sheep - despite their both coming from the same region in France ::)) ::) and both have been delightful gentlemen. Fred, the current one, was a bit pushy about feed as a lamb / hogg but is deferential now. Both have been tame enough that we can just walk up to them in the field or pen and tip 'em up to do feet, or whatever we need. It's a nice breed.
However, do you think you, your girls and your ram might be better off if he did go in with the ram lambs and just got used to it? What sort of 'upset' did he get?
-
He's a Battering Ram.
-
I've always been told not to pat a ram on the top of his head, always tickle under the chin. Also if he does come at you, stand your ground and when he is as close as you dare let him, hop backwards - it really takes the wind out of their sails!
-
The ram I arm talking about was a Shetland with big muckle horns and was a complete bully. he once almost killed his son to the extent that when they were separated he jumped the hurdles and because there was no room to charge tryed to stomp him to death, When I got back I could not believe it. I treated the ram who was bruised from head to tail and never got to his feet for four days He was a very dominant animal and I took some punishment from him . I did nothing to him but try to be friendly but he saw me as a rival.
-
Unless he was actually hurting the ram lambs, Id get him outside. You are the boss, not him. I've been charged by Wiltshire rams before now, and if you stand fast, they soon get the impression....(you still have to wach em when you are in a pen with em, mind)
-
I go with the advice of others to separate him out from the ewes and get him in with the ram lambs. OK he may sulk for a couple of days but then he will settle down to batchelordom.
Mostly it is a bad idea to pet a ram - he will see you as part of his harem, to be dominated, and will only be confused if you don't then submit.
Keeping him indoors with the ewes is very different to keeping him outside with them, as they can't get away from him. Sometimes when a ewe is in labour a tup will attack her, because her actions are strange to him and she will smell strange. It might be alright with the occasional very gentle tup, but as he is showing signs of exerting his authorty already you really need to get him out of there. Once he is in with the ram lambs he will treat them a bit like his girls and spend many happy hours checking them to see if any have magically changed sex :D
-
Go into the field/pen with one arm outstetched "See, I'm a ram with much bigger horns than you!" This will keep him at bay though he will follow you round so you have to walk backwards ::) I have only had one ram that seriously worried me and this worked. Never try to make a pet of a ram, it won't work.
-
Sound advice above! Remember more people are killed by rams than by bulls :o
-
Sound advice above! Remember more people are killed by rams than by bulls :o
Really? Not dissing you wollyval :wave: - but that sounds like an urban myth to me - where you got that from?
-
Apparently its true and not an urban myth! Rams often break a femur (sp) or hip bone and once a person is down in a cold and isolated spot.......
Having been felled by a charging ram twice I can well believe it! :wave:
-
I understand this to be true too. Some of the reasons could include that there are probably far more tups than bulls around, and that sheep can easily jump to head height and knock a person flying. Then there's being pushed over a cliff by a flock of hungry sheep on your quad bike..... :o :(
-
Please don't pet him it will make him worse and a ram who has no human respect can be lethal if not for you but you may sell him on. We never keep orphan rams and rarely pet or fuss our breeder rams.I agree with Fleecewife, separate him out.
We had a ram who was very protective towards his ewes especially near to lambing, it's no fun when they headbutt you.
Our worst ram was a Llanwenog that you couldn't get near. The little B*****d would chase and kneecap you when you were looking the other way!!! then bolt off up the field!
-
I am also a bit concerned about having a ram about the place so what I decided to do is get a ram lamb- allow him to tup- and at any point in the future he 'goes for me' (which would happen before he is properly full grown and more dangerous) he gets taken to the abbatoir and popped in the freezer...zero tolerance! The next autumn get another ram lamb etc. etc. until I eventually find one that is fine. Alternatively I may think about routinely culling the 'lamb tup' and keeping one of my own entire ram lambs (only problem is mating with his mother or sisters if kept- but for one generation surely not a problem). In this way one doesn't actually need to house an adult ram...one less mouth to feed...and a freezer full of meat :sheep:
Everyone a winner with this strategy?
-
Well, I've been felled three times by tups. Twice by the same greedy Blue-faced Leicester; a sweetheart unless you are holding a bucket of food that he thinks should be on the ground with his head in it! Back damage, I don't think it'll ever be quite right... Once by an adult Swaledale, new to our farm, my own silly fault (I have told the story on here before, I think) - but I really did think my femur was broken, I was a mile from the farm on desolate moorland with night coming in, my mobile phone packed up because of the icy water it and I was in... thankfully I did manage to drag myself back to the farm and nothing was in fact broken - but it is about as scared with livestock as I have been or wish to be.
Oh, and our current gentle Charollais tup - was a greedy, bolshy, pushy boy as a ram lamb but now is respect itself.
-
Bloody hell, Sally. That's a bit scary.
-
Oh, and our current gentle Charollais tup - was a greedy, bolshy, pushy boy as a ram lamb but now is respect itself.
Sally how did you get him to be so well behaved?
Thanks to all of you for your imput it has be very interesting and has helped me sortof make up my mind about what to do.
Regrettable I think he will have to go as my ram lambs are all due to go in the next week or so either to market or into my freezer so I have nothing to turn him out with - and the fields are like bogs with all the rain, so need the rest ready for the spring grass.
I think Fieldfare is right and maybe I should buy in a tup each year and sell at the end so i wouldn't have this problem - it's just he's a nice ram but boys are boys and I can't afford the risk of being knocked about like Sally.
I know now is not the time to sell him as a Ram so it will be the chop for him - but at least he has had a longer life than he would have if I had not bought him back in August. He was only £65 then and would have gone for slaughter.
-
Bloody hell, Sally. That's a bit scary.
Well, it was, DC - thanks for the empathy! But the Swaledale deadleg incident was my own fault. And with the BFL - well, it just highlights that you really should not ever turn your back on any tup, however well you think you know him.
Oh, and our current gentle Charollais tup - was a greedy, bolshy, pushy boy as a ram lamb but now is respect itself.
Sally how did you get him to be so well behaved?
Well, I think he just grew up - but I'll check with BH in case there's something I don't know... ;)
-
I don't think you can make a ram gentle, they either are or they're not. You can get them to respect you, up to a point but fighting with them won't work..........they will win :o :o
-
Just as a point of interest it was an in-lamb ewe that broke my nose when she jumped at me, when i was trying to catch her..... so ALL sheep can be potentially dangerous. Farming is a dangerous job but we still do it ....must be love i think :o
-
Oh - aye, I've had a black eye from a Texel ewe didn't want to be clipped and launched herself away from the chute up to the clipping platform. I saw stars!
Aye, love it must be. It sure ain't money or fame!
-
I had a young ewe kick the electric clippers out of my hand straight into my face whilst I was shearing her belly. I had a punctured right eyeball and spent 3 hours in surgery followed by 3 days in hospital then 6 weeks recovering at home. The Egyptian surgeon who saved my sight told me one more mm and I would have been one eyed! :o I sold the ewe!
-
I had a young ewe kick the electric clippers out of my hand straight into my face whilst I was shearing her belly. I had a punctured right eyeball and spent 3 hours in surgery followed by 3 days in hospital then 6 weeks recovering at home. The Egyptian surgeon who saved my sight told me one more mm and I would have been one eyed! :o I sold the ewe!
:o :o :o that was a close call, too close i think
-
I had a young ewe kick the electric clippers out of my hand straight into my face whilst I was shearing her belly. I had a punctured right eyeball and spent 3 hours in surgery followed by 3 days in hospital then 6 weeks recovering at home. The Egyptian surgeon who saved my sight told me one more mm and I would have been one eyed! :o I sold the ewe!
Aaaaaiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
I've been flattened once, trying to gather ram lambs for trip to slaughter/market (can't remember) - one blow per knee and one in the guts....advice given was to stay down so he didn't keep charging/butting. Luckily my guts are at least padded!
-
I've been flattened once, trying to gather ram lambs for trip to slaughter/market (can't remember) - one blow per knee and one in the guts....advice given was to stay down so he didn't keep charging/butting. Luckily my guts are at least padded!
We shut our ram lambs in a wee pen made of hurdles and the open trailer the night before they went to the abattoir. Next morning, they were either standing on the ramp or inside, so we just shut the gates and Bob's your uncle.
I've clunked our tup on the nose a couple of times if he's pushy, but mostly he's a gent, even when out with the ewes at tupping time. I don't turn my back n him, mind, just in case.
-
I have 3 fused vertebrae thanks to a 'pet' ram castrated in adulthood by the rescue place I used to work for.
He was hideous and spoilt. 'oh he thinks he's a dog' was all you would hear if you mentioned his aggression. >:(
he knocked me into the corner of the barn and kept coming. i swear he would have killed me if a co worker hadn't seen it happen and drove him out with the pitchfork.
I dont take the chance now, and never ever trust any ram, castrated or not.
-
I must have the best rams and ram lambs ever no significant injuries just a bit pushing and barging from everyone at feed time. Even Cutlet has now calmed down and can be a perfect gent about 95% of the time when he isn't practicing for the gymkhana. My ryeland rams have never caused injury to anyone (except love them to death). My old boy let me handle him and walk him out of the field down the drive and into a trailer this week with no problems at and he is now on his holidays visiting a few girls in dorset (and being spoilt with lots of cuddles).
So I think when you have the right breed and temperment rams can be a joy to own.
-
Oh ya bugger, as Steve Irwin use to say Danger Danger Danger. Yes Ryeland would be a good choose I had a few a year or so back they were the most layed back sheep Ive ever seen. But I could not take to them after having Shetlands.
-
our hebridean ram shares a paddock with our ducks which means we have to enter his paddock twice a day. he has charged before and its like a sledgehammer with his horns. hes not too bad with me as i tap his nose if he gets too close but he tries to climb up on my son - who has learnt to run fast!! ;D :D you do have to be very careful tho cos rams are dangerous if u dont watch them.
-
.....being knocked down in the middle of a 10 acre field and challenged to a 1 to 1 fight by a Lincoln longwool ram whom definately had the upper hand I know how dangerous Rams can be! :-\
.......I stood my ground as the Ram repeatadly charged, I managed to get in some really good hard kicks to his nose but believe me I was well beat!
THANK GOODNESS FOR THE DOGS!...... they were sitting at the field gate -I shouted them and they held the Ram off enough so I could make a hasty retreat!
Tilly
-
Good dogs, Tilly!
-
I had a very tame and friendly ram. One day in the autum I had just been handling a different ram. Then I was in the paddock with the tame ram, he nuzzled me, smelled the other ram on my clothes and butted the side of my knee. I needed an operation to sort it out.
-
all very interesting storyies and helpful to hear what everyone does in differant circumstances....my large romney ewe used to have a go at me especially if he was in with the girls, luckily i used to play alot of rugby and I used to practice my handoffs and move to one side... so when we got out herdwick ram with horns i thought instead of put them in a close pen just put them together in the field and the herdwick sorted him out straight away after 5 mins he brought him down a peg or too and since then I havenot had a problem with him.
-
all very interesting storyies and helpful to hear what everyone does in differant circumstances....my large romney ewe used to have a go at me especially if he was in with the girls, luckily i used to play alot of rugby and I used to practice my handoffs and move to one side... so when we got out herdwick ram with horns i thought instead of put them in a close pen just put them together in the field and the herdwick sorted him out straight away after 5 mins he brought him down a peg or too and since then I havenot had a problem with him.
Epic Ram Battle!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYZjLfJtkSQ#)
-
andywalt you were lucky. Swaledale tups (horned) have been known to kill Blue-faced Leicesters (bigger, but polled) doing exactly that.