The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: doganjo on December 29, 2011, 11:03:00 pm
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Well done for getting the hips done before breeding. I'm sure they will be lovely pups, good luck selling them. Did you use one of Charlie Thorburn's dogs?
But remember Labrador are yellow not golden. ;D
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But remember Labrador are yellow not golden. ;D
I thought that too! Annie, my BIL has a (very nearly) fox-red one, which he describes as a Red - do they now have a 'Red' or would he be classed as 'Yellow'?
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If anyone is interested in buying one them they can visit them and make up their own mind about the colour. Personally I love dogs for being dogs, not their colour.
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Lab7, perhaps you haven't been on here long enough to realise how passionate I am about dogs - all dogs, I love then all, regardless of breeding. But I am a stickler for correctness, keeping dogs healthy, not breeding indiscriminately or for money, and doing things right - perhaps it's my auditing background. ;D ;D ;D As I said, you seem to be doing it right.
To a certain extent I agree about colour in any specific dog, - a good horse is never a bad colour, as they say, but you wouldn't buy a Volkswagen Golf if someone advertised it as a Land Rover, would you? You would realise that they knew very little about either make of car.
Breed standards are fairly explicit for very good reasons! If you didn't adhere to the colour names you would have a great many different names for each colour. For instance I have seen Labradors described as 'Jetblacks; Shaded blacks, Chocoblacks - just silly - they have genes for black or yellow or liver, and that is what they should be described as.
Golden Retrievers are golden, Labrador retrievers are yellow.
Sally, Fox Reds are becoming more popular - they are a variation of the Yellow gene - this is the section from the Kennel Club Breed Standard. They can vary from a dark yellow to a really rich red.
Colour
Wholly black, yellow or liver/chocolate. Yellows range from light cream to red fox. Small white spot on chest permissible.
Breed Standard here -
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breed/standard.aspx?id=2048 (http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breed/standard.aspx?id=2048)
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Thank you for your comments. However, as you have said yourself 'yellow' can be anything from cream to fox red. By describing them as golden I avoided people asking if they were fox red - which does seem to be the most popular colour at the moment. I appreciate where you are coming from, but surely by being so picky you are discouraging people from taking part in what should be a friendly forum. I thought I would contribute; any time I have been on the forum before I have had friendly responses, not those of an auditor. If you would like to start a discussion about dog colours and breed standards then could you start your own topic and not take over mine.
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I don't think Doganjo is trying to take over your post, just pointing out the finer aspects of dog breeding as anyone on this forum will tell you, that she is passionate about people breeding from their dogs and going about it the right way as there is so many puppy farms and others passing on pups with potential serious health issues to unsuspecting new owners.
She is a wealth of knowledge on dog breeding and I think she still does some judging, but I'm sure she will come back to you on your post as I am sure she will have something to say on it.
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lab 7 i was like you when i had my first tussle with Annie and some others (there have been been so many)
it is friendly just think of the forum being a local pub and heated debates going on without the barmaid and drink some skip read and miss the whole point of writing some have an etiquette for perfect writing and grammar if YOU think you have a valid point make it don't be intimidated by anybody
i know a few lab breeders around Perth they work for i h brown now that was arguments so much they would not speak to each other
i once said to Annie that nobody went to bed and knew nothing and woke up the next day and knew everything there was to know (Annie has since reminded me on several occasions of what i said ) every day is a learning experience and the day you stop learning it is time to give up
anything i write about is my own observations and experiences not some tosh written in books and copied to make more books
so as somebody who has tangled with Annie and survived and still writing your posts will get hijacked comments made but just don't give up remember this forum is worldwide :farmer:
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lab 7 i was like you when i had my first tussle with Annie and some others (there have been been so many)
it is friendly just think of the forum being a local pub and heated debates going on without the barmaid and drink some skip read and miss the whole point of writing some have an etiquette for perfect writing and grammar if YOU think you have a valid point make it don't be intimidated by anybody
i know a few lab breeders around Perth they work for i h brown now that was arguments so much they would not speak to each other
i once said to Annie that nobody went to bed and knew nothing and woke up the next day and knew everything there was to know (Annie has since reminded me on several occasions of what i said ) every day is a learning experience and the day you stop learning it is time to give up
anything i write about is my own observations and experiences not some tosh written in books and copied to make more books
so as somebody who has tangled with Annie and survived and still writing your posts will get hijacked comments made but just don't give up remember this forum is worldwide :farmer:
And still pals, Robert? ;D Yes LAb7 - I am not at all downing you or your litter. As I said before I believe you are responsible as you have hip scored your bitch prior to breeding - many don't bother. This has actually blown up out of all proportion - if you remember all I said was 'But remember Labrador are yellow not golden.' That was neither a criticism nor a lecture - it was merely a comment as so many people call yellow labs golden and shouldn't. Golden is not in the breed standard of Labradors but it is in Golden retrievers.
And yes, I 'still' Judge - I have three appointments in the next 18 months. Not just my own breed - all breeds.
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I've said my piece. I don't want an argument so I'm not posting or reading any more comments.
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I think that's a real shame :( The written word can be taken in so many different ways but I don't think Annie wants to scare you away! I've read some of your older posts Mary and I know you have a great deal of experience to offer us as smallholders. I think Robert has written a brilliant analogy there (I don't know why they call you a grump Robert, I think you are lovely!)
Please reconsider :)
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Well done Doganjo someone else you can add to the list of people you have upset on here with your holier than though attitude. >:(
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I always refer to my husband's guide dog as blond but that relates to him rather than his colour (yellow or golden). Please note: I don't really believe that all blondes are dumb - just this particular dog whose brain seems to be in his harness as he doesn't have one when he's not working! ;)
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Well done Doganjo someone else you can add to the list of people you have upset on here with your holier than though attitude. >:(
all I said was 'But remember Labrador are yellow not golden.' with a smilie face after it . It was then escalated by someone else - not me! I don't know of anyone else I have upset on here either ::) - could you list them for me please so that I may make my apologies. :'( :'( :'(
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I think it was fine to point it out, as potential purchasers who had read up on the breed might have looked at the ad and thought not sure I would buy a lab from the advertiser as they dont know that labs are yellow not golden. Like Suffolk Punch horses are always described as 'chesnut' not 'chestnut'. It's an historic thing, but that doesnt make it irrelevant.
People wanting to avoid puppy farm bred dogs will look for little clues as to whether the breeder is a specialist in the breed especially when looking online. In this case Im sure the breeder is very reputable and the puppies fantastically bred and strong and healthy but it did raise a query with me when described as golden and Im no lab expert at all, have never had one. Im sure the correcting post was just trying to be helpful so the breeder can describe the puppies accurately.
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Group hug?? :'( :'( ((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))) :-* :-*
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I am very sorry if my comment and query inflamed what I didn't realise was a 'situation'.
lab7, I hope you don't leave and I really hope you don't take offence at anything said here. I can't see that any has been meant.
Annie, :-* you're Annie and we don't want you to be anyone else - any more than we want robert to change his spots. :-*
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And it is Annie's birthday (I think) :bouquet: :bouquet:
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And it is Annie's birthday (I think) :bouquet: :bouquet:
And thank goodness it is nearly over! ::) At 68 I am still 'controversial' as was once said by a boss when i was leaving! ;D
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Isn't it odd how folk take even kindly meant comments? About twenty-five years ago I said to, if not a friend exactly but a close aquaintance," When is your baby due." It turned out she wasn't pregnant, just fat and hasn't spoken to me since!! ::)
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Yep, group hugs :thumbsup:
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Good idea Sylvia, hugs all round. :thumbsup:
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Sorry but I am passionate about dogs too but no way would I be so rude to keep correcting people, thats why I left but decided to come back and fight my courner.....people who keep making corrections to what people are posting or what they say is NOT about being passionate its about being correct...far more important things to correct people on rather than a colour!!! And, so many people call my Yellow Lab Gold......and does it bother me? NO, because I am passionate about my dogs not thier colour names!!!
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Sandy, we've finished this one, had a group hug and left it at that. Please don't go picking scabs :)
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Well I JUST read it and it made me angry I am not picking at old wounds itys new to me, and thats is one reason I left in the first place
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I describe my retriever as blonde - partly because she's that very pale colour and partly cos she's a mixture of dizzy and 'I'm so cute I don't have to do as I'm told' - with apologies to all true blondes ;) (I'm a redhead so can never get away with the cute bit :D)
When someone corrects you, that's a fact, that's what they've done.
What interpretation we put on that or how it makes us feel, is our choice.
We could decide they'd been highhanded and feel offended. We could decide that they'd taught us something and feel grateful. We could just observe 'x is particular that things are correct' and think whatever we want to think about that.
To misquote Eleanor Roosevelt 'no-one makes me feel anything, without my permission'
I love this forum - and the huge variety of helpful and wise personalities on it. I shall (probably ;)) never offend knowingly and I hope I shall be forgiven if I do so unintentionally :bouquet:
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Well said, jaykay. :trophy:
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My lab is a typical dizzy blonde too..I am not >:(
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Lol, what are you Sandy?
I am the archetypical hotheaded redhead. I try so hard not to be a cliche - and fail ::) :D At least I have empathy with my 170 teenagers :D
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Well, I was sort of light brown, spent most of my life blonde and now hidding away the grey with blond, I had an assesment made when I fostered years ago and it began in such a true way, I intitialy appear dizzy but am very stable and stand my ground not easily stressed..... as well as passionate :-[ (Steve may disagree with that one)
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I intitialy appear dizzy but am very stable and stand my ground not easily stressed
sounds like a good combination :-*