The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Fieldfare on December 23, 2011, 11:04:45 pm
-
Hi- I'm thinking of getting a dog. Would be great to get your thoughts. Is it fair (and legal) to keep a dog on a long tether in front of a well built outside kennel for 8 hours? It will have the company of geese and chickens and sometimes sheep (but probably no people all day). In evenings will sleep downstairs in our house. If you think this is a possibility I'm looking to get a rescue dog- should I go for a pup or a suitable older dog? I also assume as outside I should go for a 'hairy and chunky' dog?
Your thoughts would be much appreciated- I've been mulling over this for some while!
Thanks,
-
Hi- I'm thinking of getting a dog. Would be great to get your thoughts. Is it fair (and legal) to keep a dog on a long tether in front of a well built outside kennel for 8 hours? It will have the company of geese and chickens and sometimes sheep (but probably no people all day). In evenings will sleep downstairs in our house. If you think this is a possibility I'm looking to get a rescue dog- should I go for a pup or a suitable older dog? I also assume as outside I should go for a 'hairy and chunky' dog?
Your thoughts would be much appreciated- I've been mulling over this for some while!
Thanks,
If you came to me as a breeder and told me that was what you planned you 'd get not just a flea ion your ear but a thick ear into the bargain. You are not fit to own a dog if it even occurred to you that is a good thing to do
-
Sorry to say I think it is a bit cruel. Dogs need company, and any rescue their salt would not let you have one. We won't allow any of our rescue dogs to go where they would be chained up. It is a written part of our 'contract' with new owners that this should not happen.
-
Very harsh words. where is the diplomacy. would a simple not a good idea not do
-
Very harsh words. where is the diplomacy. would a simple not a good idea not do
Sorry but where cruelty is concerned there can be no diplomacy. I realise some people might keep a dog chained up like that but they are in the minority and the authorities would be onto it in a flash if they were alerted. I would certainly report it if I saw a dog chained up for long periods.
In fact we sold a youngster to a falconer once years ago. We were given all the right answers to our questions but I had a bad feeling about it. We went there the following day, found her tied in the middle of a field with an upturned tea chest with straw in it, she was just lying there crying softly to herself She was taken home straight away and his money thrown at him. Sorry but this really makes me angry!
-
i have just got a delightful jackrussel and my son has 2 collies but dogs are very sociable animals who dont like to be left alone its great having a dog in summer most people forget when its really windy wet n cold they need a walk even if us humans cant be bothered any dog i have had loves human company i take my dog and sons up to ponies alot i dont think its fair to leave a dog alone all day but thats my opinion holly has settled into our lives pretty well apart from the chasing hens but thats her terrier in her you could build a enclosed kennel i suppose but they still need lots of attention walks etc
-
Keeping a dog alone - no, not ok
For eight hours a day - no, not ok
Tethered - err, you are joking? NOT ok
:o
Suggest getting a cat instead..... ;D
-
Suggest getting a cat instead..... ;D
But not a tethered cat ;D
-
Have been thinking about this over night and I have come to the conclusion that this post is a wind up its just so not right. If it is not then omg.
-
I thought that too, but if you scroll through Fieldfare's previous posts they are fairly sensible.
-
Fieldfare, dogs are pack animals and whilst they will adapt to a human pack they are happier with other dogs for company. Regularly being 8 hours during waking hours without other members of the pack would not be nice for a dog, no.
Most rescue centres will not allow a dog to go to a home where it would be alone for longer than 4 hours, and I am pretty sure would not accept tethering for long periods either.
If you are wanting a dog for company and walks as well as guarding duties, a different approach might be to build a nice run and kennels in the yard you want guarded and get two dogs who would be company for each other when 'on duty'.
Whatever you get, it will also need proper exercise and not just running around in it's (their) pen and between the yard and the house.
Hope that helps
Sally x
-
when i was young it was common to see a farm dog tied up with access to either a kennel or shed (collies) it was also common to see dogs tied up at scrapyards (Alsatians) recently on the TV i saw collies tied up at a farm and also dogs in runs both were working collies
a single dog tied up invariably ends up with behavioral problems as do dogs left on there own inside a house i would also think that a single dog caged up would also develop problems if left constantly on its own
a dog is what you make it if you socialise your dog will also be sociable if trained if you are at the back of beyond your dog will protect the pack ( you )
if you have never had a dog before it needs some serious thought what you want the dog for and if you would be able to look after it in this day and age of of petty complaints leading to battles
if it is for security you'd be better of with cameras and you don't need to feed them or exercise them
if it is for being a companion as some has suggested get a cat no make that two cats they can adjust to being in a house 24/7 with amusements :farmer:
-
hey you guys what ever happened to "be nice".???
there are better ways to inform people of whats right or wrong than to shout at them!
ASKING a question ia good.......dont shoot them down!
Iam a frequent visitor to this site but I really would like a be nice policy!
Happy Christmas.
-
hey you guys what ever happened to "be nice".???
there are better ways to inform people of whats right or wrong than to shout at them!
ASKING a question ia good.......dont shoot them down!
Iam a frequent visitor to this site but I really would like a be nice policy!
Happy Christmas.
I WAS being nice! believe me any cruelty to animals and I am NOT nice. I did NOT shout! THIS IS SHOUTING! Anyone with any thought for the welfare of an animal would never even THINK of tying it up and leaving it unattended for hours on end. Anything could happen, at worst it could get the chain/rope tied round it's neck and die a horrible death, and at the very least, as Robert says, it would have behavioural problems. I am really sorry if I came across as not nice, there are a great number of people on this forum who would dispute that I think. :)
-
Annie - you're lovely :-* I certainly didn't think any of the replies were rude, more trying to stress what a bad idea it was ???
Animal rehoming charities don't tend to rehome into the type of situation the OP is suggesting - there was someone on here not so long ago who wasn't allowed to re-home a dog because they worked part-time (even although there were other dogs on the premises for company)
I'd agree with everyone else, until such times as you'll be there more often, get a camera for security (or up your geese numbers AND get a gander ;)) and get a couple of cats for company :thumbsup: I've got to point out at this point that I'm a 'dog' person (always have, always will be ;)) but I really enjoy having my 2 wee kitties running riot - they're great fun ;D
-
I agree that it was better to ask the question than go ahead and get a dog, then find that there are all sorts of problems.
I suspect that, in asking the question, Fieldfare may have known that it wasn't really a very good idea in the circumstances.
-
he went for the micro pig instead. ;)
-
Hi all- thanks for the responses. It was actually an honest question posted in good faith. I thought this actually might be a nicer way for a dog to spend its day on a *long and safe* tether with the chance to take in the elements and have a snug kennel and the company of other creatures (seeing these as his pack and hence less likely to exhibit separation anxiety from myself?) rather than be cooped up in a house as many are- or popped in a kennel with run as an alternative suggestion. I can't see why these would be deemed less cruel? Can someone explain? Also I really can't believe that all dogs in the UK are left alone for a max. of 4 hours? I know a few owned by working couples that are left for much longer and appear to be happy, well contented creatures which settle into their routine and seem to go against this 'best advice'. Because of this I am still confused- I really don't post this to ruffle anyones feathers- but just wanted to clear my confusion with some non-emotive, balanced responses.
Sadly, it probably is the case that I, like many, really do not have the facilities to keep complex creatures such as dogs. I might have to wait until I retire - only 20-odd years to go :)
Thanks :)
-
Hi all- thanks for the responses. It was actually an honest question posted in good faith. I thought this actually might be a nicer way for a dog to spend its day on a *long and safe* tether with the chance to take in the elements Can someone explain? Also I really can't believe that all dogs in the UK are left alone for a max. of 4 hours? Because of this I am still confused- I really don't post this to ruffle anyones feathers- but just wanted to clear my confusion with some non-emotive, balanced responses.
Sorry to be blunt - didn't mean to offend you, but a long tether is neither safe nor appropriate. A dog I knew was left like that for an hour and it hung itself which is why I am ultra sensitive about it. It must have been the most awful death imaginable. Perhaps I should have explained. A comfortable kennel inside a large run with another dog for company would be far more appropriate and safe. Yes, many dogs are left for more than four hours but that doesn't make it right does it? As someone else said they are pack animals, and need company whether human or other dogs.
I have two of mine outside in a kennel - well actually my garage with inside runs and popholes to outside runs and wooden kennels inside so they are warm and cosy and have plenty of space. The only reason they aren't in the house is my two boys have had fights so I swap them around, and they all have an equal share of my company. They are also worked during season, and exercised every day in an open safe woodland, surrounded by deer fencing. I must insist that tying a dog up for long period of time is dangerous and not a pleasant environment for a dog. Why do you want a dog anyway?
-
A kennel with run would be more acceptable, and why not have 2 dogs so they can keep each other company when you are not around. My 2 springers come to work with me, but spend most of their time in the back of the pick up with a lunch time walk to relieve themselves. It is all they have ever known and love the routine, they also live in the house, so flake out on the furniture every evening. When we have to go away for the day we can leave the back door open so the dogs have free run of the garden and can come into the utility room. This works well for us!
-
Hi Annie- no worries- you didn't offend me- I can see how much you care for animal welfare and I respect you for being tough on me! My questioning welfare is why I don't have a dog even though I would dearly like one! (and I am a complete beginner other than looking after a friends dog occasionally). Anyway- I'll try to explain. I would like to get a dog for the main reasons people get a dog I guess (companionship, security- but not an aggressive dog, social, fun,health, walking etc.). The main problem is that I work 5-days a week (9-5) and I agree that this does not sound like the profile of an ideal dog keeper! However, I was trying to investigate a way around this as out of these times I can offer the dog a great life (I spend plenty of time out of doors tending my smallholding and heading to the hills!). He'd spend evenings, nights and weekends wherever I go. Also I have heard that if you get a pup and bring him up at the same time as young poultry he and they become part of a pack- when I amaway he still has his 'pack' so does not fret as much? (hence mitigating for the extra time I will be away). Also I am thinking that dogs do get used to this regular routine of coming and going (similar to when pack members go out to hunt in wild dog packs?). I would only like one dog unfortunately even though the 2-dog idea sounds good.
In terms of tethering I would be looking at something safe such as a 'trolley system'(?) where there is no chance of him getting caught up(?) and it would allow him plenty of space- and much more than a kennel with run could afford- I suppose the line could be 100 metres long if necessary! and he would always be in touch with his 'pack and be allowed to enter a warm kennel'. Am I really way off the mark in terms of animal welfare? Or in terms of what is deemed 'acceptible' in terms of treating pet animals? Maybe it does sound a bit cruel- but is it really? It would be great to hear what you and others think :) I am prepared to shelve the idea but really feel I would like to explore all avenues before giving up the idea.
Thanks
-
Speaking from a rescuers point of view a tether is a no no. I totally agree with Doganjo, dogs get so easily tangled up in them. How would you truly feel if you came home and he had managed to strangle himself? As for leaving him 8ish hours a day, well how about a dog walker? I have clients and also people who have taken dogs from our rescue that employ a dog walker while they are out. Do you have close neighbours? What if the dog starts barking and is at it for most of the time you are out?
I'm sure there are ways around this, it's just working out what is workable for you and fair on the dog.
-
At the risk of stiring things up, I can't help but contrast the views here with the ones posted just the other day in this thread:-
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=20211.0 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=20211.0)
seemed like tethering that dog up wasn't viewed as a problem.
Though for the record I'm not in favour of tethering, I have seen some perfectly happy dogs on tethers.
mab
-
At the risk of stiring things up, I can't help but contrast the views here with the ones posted just the other day in this thread:-
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=20211.0 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=20211.0)
seemed like tethering that dog up wasn't viewed as a problem.
Though for the record I'm not in favour of tethering, I have seen some perfectly happy dogs on tethers.
mab
To be fair the question there was stealing - I wasn't happy about that dog being tethered either, but that wasn't the point in that thread.
FF, if you can show me a link to what you are thinking about I will give you my honest opinion, but I truly think your best option is a £100 shed from B & Q and a roll of double height pig wire made into a run, and two dogs. A dog on it's own will find things to do and on one of those long lines you could come back to find dead sheep or hens, even if your dog was safe.
-
that link was about a dog who somebody thought they could give a better enviroment to so they stole it could not cope with its problems real or other wise and returned it
my point of my previous post is farm dogs are tied up a working dog has to do that work and work constantly house dogs are not perceived as making good working dogs you just connot let a working farm dog have free range as it will go and work on its own and you don't want that :farmer:
-
I have read this thread with interest. I believe tethering to be a big no no - I too have seen dogs strangle themselves and die a horrible death. Kennel and run is much prefereble. I work part time and have a dog walker who comes in and let my dogs out for 1/2 hour (cant afford more as costs too much) - rest of the day they are in kennel / run and then out and in house with me the rest of the time.
In terms of the legalities - the animal welfare act requires owners to meet their animals needs - in terms of a suitable environment, suitable diet, express normal behaviour, social needs and protection from pain, injury, diesese and suffering. The code of practice for dogs (http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13333-cop-dogs-091204.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13333-cop-dogs-091204.pdf)) give more detailed information - enforcement of this is a problem though believe me!!
I would suggest that you read these and see whether what you are proposing meets these recomendations. I would find it hard to believe that a puppy could adjust easily to being left 8 hours outside from the start so you would need to get it used to being left - in a run not tethered. An older dog may adjust better but depends on its previous history. I agree it is unlikely a rescue will let a dog go to someone leaving it on its own for 8 hours a day.
Tricky situation for you but you have my respect for making the original post and thinking seriously - not all of us have the luxury of a dogwalker or only working part-time etc etc and you are as well to make these considerations before getting the dog.
-
Another reason to go for a kennel and run rather than a tether is to protect the dog. A tethered dog will not be able to get away from say another dog attacking it, but will be safe in a run. They will need shelter from sun, rain and wind but also a sunny spot for cold winter mornings. Many farmers do chain their dogs up and the dogs seem to be used to it but I personally don't like it. I leave my dogs in a kennel during the day for 6 hours and they are absolutely fine - they just sleep! They are all adults though I wouldn't leave a pup that long. 8 hours is a bit too long imho especially a single dog who would probably get stressed and bark.
-
Thought the replies were a bit strong, an honest question deserves a civil reply. I do agree 100% that a lone dog tied up for hours is not right, but a pair of dogs kept for security is a different matter, if housed correctly. Working dogs are bred for specific jobs ;D
-
Anyone with intention of cruelty will not or would not post a question they would just go ahead and think they know best anyway!
A harsh reply has no effect other than to stop people asking questions. I would suspect most people on this site love thier animals and none would wish harm otherwise they would not be on the forum.
-
Only just come to this thread but I have to say that I would try to secure the area that the dog can go into with the poultry etc. If this was done during a prolonged holiday time so that the pup could be observed but exposed to the final routine gradually, that would be the ideal situation. Perhaps some form of electric fence?
Dogs love routine and ours do in fact just chill whilst we are out.
I'm not a huge fan of runs and kennels personally and would worry about a tethered dog but as previously mentioned, working collies are tied up and so are Husky and Malamute dogs.
It is also true that destructive dogs are usually detructive in the 30 minutes after they have been left. If this is the case and you have a stressed out dog, then if you introduce a dog walker in the middle of the day, this increases the number of times of stressful exposure.
Full respect for asking the question. Just remember that the dog is a companion and a pack animal. It's pack mates don't have to be dogs or humans. You should also bear in mind that the temperament of the individual dog should be taken into account. If you took two dogs from the same litter, one could cope with a situation and the other would stress out.
Perhaps when the time comes, the right dog will come your way. lets hope so.
By the way, not all rescue centres are good at rehoming. The main one in Birmingham will let anyone have a dog, any dog!
Ian
-
The people in a house are out at work all day and the dog barks continuously. Annoying for us but dreadful for the people next door.
-
Hi all- thanks again for the replies. I will mull these over the next few months and go and learn a bit more about dogs and their ways- I'll go and see a couple of rescue centres to see what they think of my situation (definitely don't want to make a mistake) Anyway- thanks again.
-
Hi all- thanks again for the replies. I will mull these over the next few months and go and learn a bit more about dogs and their ways- I'll go and see a couple of rescue centres to see what they think of my situation (definitely don't want to make a mistake) Anyway- thanks again.
Well done, FF. Keep us updated. :wave:
-
I too have just read this thread with interest.
some years ago we were given a dog (border collie) from a back to back town house. We had a smallish kennel made for him, with nice cosy bed, (big enough for him to stretchout). that dog hated to come in the house, we had to be quite forceful to get him in when it was bad weather, and he was out again asap. Living in 'sheep country', soon after we got him I caught him chasing neighbours sheep, so he had to be tied up when outside.
I would say, the longer the tether the more problems likely to arise, the maximum mine get would be about 20+ft. and I've always made sure there is nothing to get caught up on, since that fella died, (cancer, a few years ago) I've often had dogs tied up out there, not on their own for 8 hours, and walked regularly, but when it's nice and I'm busy, they are safe and shout for me when anyone's about, it's nice to see them sprawled in the sun rather than fastened in a room inside. currently one dog is loose because I trust him, other one is tied when outside or she wanders off.
I would agree 8 hours on their own does sound a long time, I like 2 dogs anyway, and it sounds like the rest of the time they would be in the house? If there are 2 dogs and they are contained safely they should be company for each other.
After visiting a dogs home to get a replacent for original boy, I would think anything must be better than that place, I had to walk out at one point, couldn't bear to see all those poor dogs caged up. ('replacement' is the boy who can be now left loose in the yard). I did say he would be tied up some of the time and they were OK with that.
-
Hi all and Happy New Year,
I was sure I remembered something like this coming up before and if you look back through the Dog section there was a similar topic discussed in August/Sept 2010 .
As I don't know how you get the link attached it might be useful for you to have a hunt through previous posts FF.
-
Hi all and Happy New Year,
I was sure I remembered something like this coming up before and if you look back through the Dog section there was a similar topic discussed in August/Sept 2010 .
As I don't know how you get the link attached it might be useful for you to have a hunt through previous posts FF.
Was that the sheepdog that a do gooder stole then had to put back because the indoor life made it unhappy?
-
Hi all and Happy New Year,
I was sure I remembered something like this coming up before and if you look back through the Dog section there was a similar topic discussed in August/Sept 2010 .
As I don't know how you get the link attached it might be useful for you to have a hunt through previous posts FF.
Was that the sheepdog that a do gooder stole then had to put back because the indoor life made it unhappy?
No, that was recent, Annie. Snapper says this topic was previously discussed 15 months ago.
Snapper, to attach the link, please do the following :
On the webpage in question, copy the address in your browser bar (click on it so it is highlighted and press Ctrl-C - the Ctrl key and the C key together), then reply to this post, press the icon that looks like an Earth with a sheet of A4 stuck to it (if you hover on it, it says 'insert hyperlink') and then paste the address you copied. You can paste by doing Ctrl-V or by doing right-mouse (or right button on your trackerpad) and choosing Paste.
I know that sounds complicated but it isn't really - please give it a go, as it really isn't very easy for the rest of us to find the thread you mean with no further information than a window of a couple of months.
If you can't do it, could you tell us the title of the thread? That'll be easier to track down, and one of us can put the link in here.
-
Hi Field, you were just posting a thought and that's ok, don't worry about the barrage of abuse. We got a dog last year (a border collie bitch) and although I'm not a dog person I gave in. I do regret it however. We have hens, ducks, geese, sheep, goats etc and although she has learned to be well behaved around them (the ducks peck her nose and the goats butt her), she has completely ruined the harmony which existed with the animals. Even if I go out without her to see them all, they expect her to be with me and have become wary of me which I really regret. It was like introducing a wolf in the area. My OH says the harmony will all come back in time and although she is lovely, I do regret it for that reason alone.
-
Thanks Sally, I think this is the link I wanted. It was about people going out to work and leaving their dogs at home.
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=9336.0 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=9336.0)
We left all 4 dogs in our kitchen today from 8.30am till 3.30pm with no problem even the 7 month old pup was fine. Although I will admit that they all needed/wanted a wee when we got back. But if you think about it it's pretty much what happens at night when we go to bed, they are on theirown then too.
Anne
-
This is an interesting thread for me, because I've been a stay at home mum / working from home mum for the last 12 years - with dogs. Since October, however, I now work nearby from 9 until 3.15. I know the dogs are ok for this length of time, plus they have each other and free range of a reasonable sized house. (I do try to get home at lunchtime if I can, which is most days.) If I could afford it I'd build a decent run and outside kennel, not an option just now. I feel guilty, though. We didn't get dogs so that they could be left to entertain themselves. They are essential parts of our lives, but I must work to make ends meet. It's a difficult dilemma and I sympathise.
-
I suppose a lot of us change our circumstances, sometimes its a simple choice, either the dog gets rehomed or it has to be left for a while, its not an ideal world for any of us and none of us know when things may change!! Also some people are good at saying what should be done but crap at putting it into practice!!