The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: Fieldfare on November 23, 2011, 08:30:32 pm
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Hi all- is it safe to drink raw, unpasteurised milk from a commercial dairy herd?
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is it your own herd or are you getting it from the farmer
the pasteurising kills the bugs that are in the milk also the microbiological count is at a higher level allowed in milk going to pasteurising
you used to get gold top milk but have been out of milk production for over 35 years so things have changed :farmer:
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Green top was unpasteurised; Gold top is Channel Island milk and still available.
It's illegal to sell unpasteurised milk in Scotland, but not in England, I think.
I worked on a dairy farm 30 years ago and drank the milk from the tank. Never did me any harm ;)
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Gold top is Channel Island milk and still available.
Our Waitrose sell it. :yum: It's not homogenised, either, so the cream rises to the top, like it should.
It's illegal to sell unpasteurised milk in Scotland, but not in England, I think.
In England it is legal to sell it on the farm to the end user but it cannot be sold through shops, or delivered.
I worked on a dairy farm 30 years ago and drank the milk from the tank. Never did me any harm ;)
If you subscribe to the view that any part of the body needs to be exercised to be healthy, then those of us drinking unpasteurised milk have healthy immune systems! (I do, do, and have ;D)
I am not sure I would drink raw milk from a farm tank in an area where TB is prevalent... there may be additional rules about that, I don't know.
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Sally, it is only legal to sell it if all the environmental health hoops have been jumped through - and they are very tough on farms that want to sell raw milk. They have to be cleaner than clean.
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vss that is the bacterial counts have to be much lower anybody know what the levels are both for pasteurising milk and raw milk :farmer:
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I have an order coming in tomorrow, I'm happy that the high hygiene standards will reduce risks to a minimum, and I'm curious about the differences in taste, composition, and general effects on the body (shan't post lots of links unless someone's interested).
It's being delivered straight to me from the farm, if that is significant.
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One potential issue with drinking unpasteurised milk is TB. Any herd with a TB reactor would be prevented from selling unpasteurised milk, but cattle TB seems to be more widespread than it used to be. Pasteurisation was introduced at about the same time as BCG vaccination and together had a major impact on the occurrence of the disease amongst people.
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It's being delivered straight to me from the farm, if that is significant.
As far as I know it's illegal; I would edit your post if you want to stay friends with that farmer!
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http://www.naturalfoodfinder.co.uk/unpasteurised-raw-milk-uk (http://www.naturalfoodfinder.co.uk/unpasteurised-raw-milk-uk)
There is a brisk delivery network in England and Wales with at least one farm offering online ordering and delivery
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yep very interesting i like the bit that states we prefer jersey or Guernsey cows yet Holstein are in abundance
just an observation :farmer:
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Spooky coincidence: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/nov/23/raw-milk-revolution (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/nov/23/raw-milk-revolution)
(better get in before the price jumps!)
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if only it were as easy as the article states it cannot be good grass or silage he is feeding to get that small amount of cream a lot more than a skeletal Holstein admittedly or am i just not getting the glass half empty or half full bit :farmer:
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Strange that Scotland is TB free, yet we can't sell raw milk. In some parts of England, it's rife and they can.
Certainly looking forward to ours :-)
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Is there a Berwick-based smuggling ring...? ;D ::)
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they have yet to find the medicinal benifits of whiskey iron bru deep fried mars bars a short but happy life
hic phet splash :farmer:
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We have two farms by us who still bottle and deliver their milk. Both getting on in years now, so when they go, it will probably be supermarket milk for the locals. I assume its pasteurised nowadays. We are in a TB area unfortunately, and I know one of these farms has definitely had TB in their herd. We were on 4 year tests, now its 12 monthly >:(
Our farm was TB free for the 50 plus years my family have been here .....as were the other farms in the area, untl three years ago when 5 farms including ours suffered losses due to TB. I was lucky, none of ours were affected, but the farmer we rented land to, lost 6 of his cattle. Therefore we no longer keep any cows.
Until the TB, us, and our family before us, had quite happily consumed unpasteurised milk. It used to be taken away in old fashioned milk churns, my granddad left on the milk stage (big flat slabs outside the barn) every day. That was before the invention of milk tanks. If I remember rightly, the cows were all hand milked too.
For me, there is nothing like the taste of raw cows milk .....especially Jersey or Geurnsey. The thrill of being able to skim the cream off the top ......!!!! I now have our goats milk of course. The vet advised me to pasteurise the milk to be on the safe side, but I prefer it raw, tastes better.
If it was not for the fact I was in a TB area, I would definitely drink unpasteurised milk in preference to any other.
As it is now, If I drink cows milk it has to be full fat, the semi and skimmed just taste like water to me, and I cannot enjoy my cup of tea topped with watery milk :)
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Well I am pleased to be corrected and very glad that farmers are now allowed to sell raw milk at farmers' markets and on delivery rounds :D
I completely agree with the comments about raw fresh milk from a grass-fed Jersey being sumptuous and almost sweet - and varying in character according to many factors including the weather and where on the farm she has been eating.
Interestingly, we skim our milk to make butter, so drink roughly skimmed milk in our tea and coffee. It still has masses of flavour and isn't thin, weedy, watery and tasteless as so many find shop-bought skimmed and semi-skimmed milk.
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I milk every morning at our neighbour's farm. A perk of the job is bringing a jug of fresh milk home :) :) :) :)
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Well, it's arrived and is lovely in coffee!
Leaving it to settle - I want to skim off the cream, or a least some of it.
Whoops, sorry to hijack thread a bit!
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Strange that Scotland is TB free, yet we can't sell raw milk. In some parts of England, it's rife and they can.
Yes that has had me stumped for a while... I think we have to wait until Prof Whats-his-name Pennington is too old to be interviewed every single time there is some farm animal disease or Ecoli outbreak or other food scare...
By complete coincidence I read the guardian article and the one thing that came to mind immediately was the TB isssue... I think it was deliberately left out, as TB (and badger cull :o) will set the alarm bells off in the "keen on natural foods" townie brigade....
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Is "infected" milk a proven TB transmission route?
Even if it is, I'm satisfied that in a high-hygiene milking system, with regular tests and checks, plus me being in general good health and vaccinated....well the risk is acceptable :)
Have skimmed off the cream, not enough for butter or anything, but YUM! ;D
The rest is frozen (wonder what critters this will kill, beneficial or otherwise?)
I presume the Scotland/England difference is purely historic?
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Is "infected" milk a proven TB transmission route?
Yes. That's why we've had the ministry carrying out TB tests on cattle for nigh on 80 years - maybe longer.
Even if it is, I'm satisfied that in a high-hygiene milking system, with regular tests and checks, plus me being in general good health and vaccinated....well the risk is acceptable :)
Absolutely. :)
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...again- really interesting and informative comments. Thanks :cow:
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Is "infected" milk a proven TB transmission route?
Yes. That's why we've had the ministry carrying out TB tests on cattle for nigh on 80 years - maybe longer.
Even if it is, I'm satisfied that in a high-hygiene milking system, with regular tests and checks, plus me being in general good health and vaccinated....well the risk is acceptable :)
Absolutely. :)
Infection with TB was one of the main reasons for pasteurising milk in the first instance - and it surely did save a lot of lives over the decades... However we have our (goats)milk unpasteurised here, and hopefully long may it continue....
I personally think that selling unpasteurised milk through a shop is making the chain just a bit too long - on the one dairy farm left nearby the milk tanker only comes once a week to collect!
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Is there a Berwick-based smuggling ring...? ;D ::)
I am only a few miles over the border from Berwick and am always looking for an alternative income
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I personally think that selling unpasteurised milk through a shop is making the chain just a bit too long - on the one dairy farm left nearby the milk tanker only comes once a week to collect!
I wouldn't want to see milk from several farms be collected, pooled and then get bottled and sold raw in shops, no. But I would like to see an individual farm allowed to bottle their own raw milk and retail it through their local village store(s) and rural mini-mart(s)
I think that those farms which sell raw milk actually have a much higher hygiene standard than their pasteurising neighbours. So if ever there came along a bug that wasn't killed by pasteurisation (which some viruses would not be), those of us drinking raw milk would be less likely to cop a dose than the people drinking the treated stuff.
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However we have our (goats)milk unpasteurised here, and hopefully long may it continue....
Apart from the well publicised 2008 outbreak of TB in Golden Guernsey goats there have only been very few cases of TB in goats in the UK. In addition to that outbreak there have been 4 cases in the last 5 years and only another 4 cases in the last 30+ years. It would seem that the risk of acquiring TB from unpasteurised goat's milk is very small, although not impossible.
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However we have our (goats)milk unpasteurised here, and hopefully long may it continue....
Apart from the well publicised 2008 outbreak of TB in Golden Guernsey goats there have only been very few cases of TB in goats in the UK. In addition to that outbreak there have been 4 cases in the last 5 years and only another 4 cases in the last 30+ years. It would seem that the risk of acquiring TB from unpasteurised goat's milk is very small, although not impossible.
I have two GG milkers... the whole story of bTB in goats is not resolved yet, as so far it is not sure if it was just bad luck that only GG got it, or if there is a breed specific threat. However isolated cases of bTB have been found in both sheep and pigs...
Fortunatley we are also in Scotland, so no bTB on neighbouring farms...
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I have two GG milkers... the whole story of bTB in goats is not resolved yet, as so far it is not sure if it was just bad luck that only GG got it, or if there is a breed specific threat. However isolated cases of bTB have been found in both sheep and pigs...
Fortunatley we are also in Scotland, so no bTB on neighbouring farms...
Ah, but isn't there...?
We all know that there are, as you say, isolated cases of TB in dogs, deer, sheep and goats, rather more in cats, pigs and alpacas. And none of these animals is routinely tested for TB, and they all move freely between parishes and across borders.
I maybe should start another thread on this, but can't bring myself to even write the subject line. It is one of the very few things that keeps me awake at nights.
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I was raised on unpasteurised milk and would happily drink it again now. I was delighted to find some for sale at our local farmers market recently, as it gives smaller dairy farmers another outlet for their milk and get a reasonable return by selling direct to consumers.
I did have to make good use of it quickly however as we have got used to the pasteurised stuff lasting forever rather than going sour in a few days!
:)
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pheasant farmer how much did it cost per litre and was it the producer that was selling it :farmer:
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I get mine through a local cooperative. It's Guernsey and is brilliant. The pasteurised, homogenised stuff is filth in comparison. As with anything like this, hygiene is key.
The hygiene hoops the producers of raw milk have to go through are extraordinary. You could eat your dinner off the parlour floors in these places. Pasteurisation, while saving may lives during TB's height, has also allowed for some (and I only say some) farmers to get away with questionable hygiene. Also, I don't know if this is widely known, but if a farm tests positive for TB, the milk STILL goes into the food chain if it goes to a conventional, pasteurising dairy. So does the meat from the carcass. The cow gets destroyed. For what? No gain at all as far as I can see.
The sooner we get a vaccine, the better.
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vss that is the bacterial counts have to be much lower anybody know what the levels are both for pasteurising milk and raw milk :farmer:
I used to be the bod that tested the milk samples, but i'm buggered if i can remember what the tolerances were!
I think the abx had to be less that 0,02 ppm, or we rejected the tanker but the bacti count ??? ??? :D
We used to use raw milk as the positive control on our TVC (total viable count) in the bacti lab, and tested the raw milk samples on the fluorophos machine......
I filled my brain with too much useless trivia in the meantime to remember :D