The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: bazzais on November 10, 2011, 06:42:14 pm
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I've seen a few threads about the annoyances of people having gates left open and the repercussions that could be extended to the 'assailant' and I've just come across a page that could essentially be called upon by bods who have the hassle of this happening on a regular basis.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/37/schedule/2 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/37/schedule/2)
Essentially we dont have the 'right to roam' in wales and england (thank god) but we do have a similar piece of legislation thats being updated all the time to help keep the system amicable to all.
It is infact against this legislation to not 'leave a gate as its found'
Baz
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That's what I have always been taught about the countryside - if you go through a gate leave it exactly as you found it - except! if there are animals in the field and you reckon someone else has left it open in error (or deliberately) In which case, close it and find someone to tell them. ;D
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Mine are kept padlocked!
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our local farmer keeps EVERYTHING padlocked whether there is something in the field or not :( forcing us to ride on the very narrow country lanes....not particularly safe when there is a tractor and a trailer coming to meet you!!
I have no issue with gates being padlocked when there are either crops or livestock in a field, and in fact I wouldnt ride in either even if there were NO gates at all, however, i do take exception to his padlocking gates when the field is totally empty.....
but then he's horrible in lots of other ways as well
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I do padlock my field gates but there are public walkway gates that people can use. My one big complaint is people using these gates and leaving them open or complaining that there is livestock in the field where they are walking. I have actually had to use electric fencing to put a walkway around the field for people to use after my sheep kept getting attacked by dogs and gates left open so the sheep went exploring.
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We had a right do with the council over a right of way into our field, they wanted to put in a kissing gate but we said that pigs are clever and they would work out how to open it, after prolonged negotiations, OH threatening to put loader thro said gate and site visits we got a stile!
mandy :pig:
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Ellisr, a friend of mine put an electrified walkway around her field to protect folk from her ponies! Someone complained that it was not the correct path and she had to take it down. We have had a few gates opened recently , luckily the fields were empty at the time and one that is opened frequently after my OH checking it after myself only leads to the garden and the chickens/ turkeys ....or is that more worrying at this time of year?
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I have checked the correct path and have fenced it accordingly, I did have one complaint about them not being able to walk across the middle of my field as that is the quickest way from gate to gate when I showed the map detailing the route that should be taken.
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I dont mind folk coming on my land at all if they shut the gates. We get trout fishermen, walkers, people coming to look at the archaeology and best of all until a couple of years ago we have an empty water pump house that the local kids had made into a den. They raided skips, mums kitchen etc and made a little house which included a three piece suite in one room and an old conservatory suite in the other.They painted the walls and had a washing line outside. It was great to nip down and see what they had done. The pen outside was a decorated garden of shells.
They are all grown up now and the pump house is full of turkeys.
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Aw, that's lovely! :love: Super kids. ;D
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Most people round here lock their gates to protect their livestock against being let out, or even stolen. And the empty fields are locked to stop gypsies camping there - they were on the local common right next to the golf club for two weeks, and council had bother evicting them. I drove past at the time they were due to leave, and the council had got all the local farmers with tractors ready to pull the caravans on to the road. But gypsies know the law and how long they can stay, and moved off themselves.
So, I suppose locking gates prevents bother like that!!
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Most people round here lock their gates to protect their livestock against being let out, or even stolen. And the empty fields are locked to stop gypsies camping there - they were on the local common right next to the golf club for two weeks, and council had bother evicting them. I drove past at the time they were due to leave, and the council had got all the local farmers with tractors ready to pull the caravans on to the road. But gypsies know the law and how long they can stay, and moved off themselves.
So, I suppose locking gates prevents bother like that!!
we got no gypsies round these here parts...just a horrible farmer who hates people i think :(
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You should try keeping sheep on a piece with a road running through it - the postman is the worst culprit at leaving the gate open.
Not much use putting in a cattle grid as our ewes will happily jump clean over them ::)
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egglady you will have Gypsy's in the area you just don't recognise them as Gypsy's
yes your roads round you are very narrow for riding horses but you don't have the right to ride on farmers fields even with the right to roam act i think i am right in saying you (or any horse rider ) are barred from ridding in farmers fields without permission :farmer:
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yes your roads round you are very narrow for riding horses but you don't have the right to ride on farmers fields even with the right to roam act i think i am right in saying you (or any horse rider ) are barred from ridding in farmers fields without permission :farmer:
Yes you are right.
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yes your roads round you are very narrow for riding horses but you don't have the right to ride on farmers fields even with the right to roam act i think i am right in saying you (or any horse rider ) are barred from ridding in farmers fields without permission :farmer:
Yes you are right.
I'd second that.
The only time it's allowed is if there is a current right of way or bridleway through the field.
The open access code says you can go through fields (on foot & with your dog on a lead) providing it's safe for you to do so, doesn't cause damage to crops or risk to livestock and you keep to the field edges.
Karen :wave:
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Its a tricky one - here in Scotland horseriders have the same access rights as walkers/cyclists. Which is easier here as there are fewer people/less pressure on crowded land. It helps riders notm just have more places to ride but also to protect erosion of original ride routes; as it stops what happens in England. There motorists dont want horses on the roads, farmers dont want them on the fields and councils dont want to stump up for alternatives and put money solely into foot or foot/cycle routes only. Even routes used for years without problems are suddenly remove on a whim - the proposed ban (despite no incidents of problems over 30 years!) on horses on the ex railway line Alban way in Herts being a good example.
But the law is the law and based on the law down south there is NO right to ride on a field without permission, so it is not reasonable to slate someone for enforcing their legal right, only to campaign for the law to be changed or for the council to do something about the dangerous road (eg where we used to live, the single track lane is being considered for being blocked at one end due to rat running) or to create a safe off road route.
Also bear in mind some farming payments are threatened if the grassland is damaged eg by being cut up by hooves. While he might not mind one offs, the trouble is other riders see the one using it and then everyone does. And the gate may be locked to stop it being stolen or the field occupied by travellers or used for fly tipping - certainly that was the main reason for locked gates where we used to be.
Alternativel of course the farmer could just be a miserable so and so, and enjoy being unhelpful. But in the end, south of the border, buying the field is the only way to get to ride in it (altho of course that breaks planning rules too in some eyes!)
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We have paths all round us, and I am torn between them being positive or negative. It all depends on the afternoon and the mood I am in. - and what happens.
The path that runs through our yard brings in campers and increases our business in summer - but it also involves lots of walkers getting lost and trudging around lost all the time.
I am proud of where I live and like to share it - but sometimes I get a little pissed off when someone parks in an area I need free or people keep talking at me.
I trust people to close and tie a gate most the time - but their knots are never as good as mine. ;)
We padlock one gate on our border and the other is fitted with a real gate that works and has locks and stuff - so there is no excuse for leaving it open.
Baz
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woo oh there lachlanandmarcus you say walkers/cyclists have the same rights as horse riders yes on paths designated bridleways etc BUT NOT OPENING A GATE AND CANNTERING ABOUT OR WALKING THERE BIKE TO THE TOP OF A HILL AND CYCLING BACK DOWN next the 4x4 brigade will be laying claim to there bit of unspoiled field :farmer:
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oooh interesting can of worms here me thinks.......according to the British Horse Society - who arguably know what they are talking about - advise that the Countryside Access Code DOES allow horse riders exactly the same rights as walkers ie riders can go through fields, etc...however, the code also states that sense should be applied and to me that means, not mashing up folks fields - so no riding when wet and horrible underfoor, etc, etc. and never ever riding in a field with livestock or crops.
this is only in scotland and i think things are different in the rest of the uk.....
and as we are in a teeny wee bit of Fife where there are only a few people who would ride then i dont think it's too much of an issue.....oh and said farmer lets the bleeding HUNT ride through his land..........cos he is pals with the hunt master....erm me thinks that 60 odd horses galloping through his fields are gonna do a whole lot more damage than me 'n' me pal riding our 2 steady ponies around his end rigs.....
rant over...he's just an old git as far as i'm concerned.......and as for caring about the environment...he's just applied to erect 2 x 100ft wind turbines...and didnt tell a soul locally - hoping we wouldnt find out till it was too late to do anything about it...
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if the land owner can prove that damage was caused by horseriders or cyclists (it would take a hell of a lot of people walkink in a straight line to cause damage) you are liable for the cost of reinstatement
when the hunt used to come round here i must say they were very carefull not to damage fields etc it still did not stop my neighbour complaining and the hunt stopping the anti hunt demonstrators did not help either(students on a sat for a £5 beer money) funny how the Tuesday hunt never had any demonstrations and these bams did not bother about fences fields locals just themselves
on the windmills it should be made public when an application goes in falkirk district has scuppered a big application but they will probably appeal it and win but they were big ones :farmer:
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a locked gate never stopped a traveller.
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.he's just applied to erect 2 x 100ft wind turbines...and didnt tell a soul locally - hoping we wouldnt find out till it was too late to do anything about it...
I don't know if the planning rules are the same for wind turbines as for houses but nowadays there is no 'neighbour notification'. The way it works now is that an advert is put in the local press announcing that an application has been made and giving details. I believe they draw a 20m circle round the curtilege and if there are dwellings they are notified but otherwise it's left to the advert. I know because I've just paid for mine to go in the P & J.
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As far as I know right to roam only applies to specifed areas - itis not a general carte blanche to go whereever you like. Most RtoR areas are marked on up to date OS maps. I some of our land falls in the RtoR area and some doesn't. I would be very surprised if it gave free access to riders as well as walkers, but I don't know for sure.
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there was a talk about right of ways a lawyer stated a right of way is a walk way
maintained by the local council like pavements
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I am certain that in England 'open access land' is open to walkers only (following the country code.)
It is a huge worry to farmers and we are all just waiting for the first insurance claim...
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We have a few worries as our land in the past (before we moved in) was regularly entered over a period of time after it was featured on 'badgerwatch' on the BBC. Some people from Birmingham were eventually arrested having broken in several times to take badgers from the set for badger baiting (I think it is?)
there was also a saxon skeleton with jewellery worth an awful lot excavated from land a few metres from our own and we've had so many people say to us that there is hidden treasure on our own land but, if anyone has any ideas of looking for it having read this...THERE IS NONE THERE!!!
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there was a talk about right of ways a lawyer stated a right of way is a walk way
maintained by the local council like pavements
unfortunately not :(
we have a bridleway through our small holding ( well microholding) and have been informed that we have to maintain it.
we were thinking of having the first bit with tarmac aas we drive to our garage , they (the bridleway people from the council) will not fund but will state the type we can use....... ::)
Mx
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English law is different to Scots law and access :farmer:
Scotland has a right to roam act THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE CURTILLAGE OF YOUR HOUSE
everybody has access to the land but you cannot damage the land or crops so other than walking your barred there is specified walkways and bridle ways but no access to vehicles other than utilities unless by request :farmer:
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I keep the gate by the roadside locked as holiday makers would open the gates and go in to speak to the ponies, not always shutting them right. I do not object to anyone coming up to the house and asking if they can see the ponies as I can talk ponies all day. When I did ride I was very lucky that my neighbour was kind enough to allow me to use his big field next to me once the crop was off saving me a winter of riding on a slippy road. I never go onto any land without asking as I think it is only the polite thing to do. Now my dogs get the fun of his big field all winter. ;D
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I have had people using my fields as a short cut resulting in collapsed walls gate left open and there dogs chasing sheep had a strong word and so far all is OK .But I had to spend three days fixing walls >:( Once had a man put 6 horses in one of my fields by mistake and I had to argue with him until he removed them. they make some mess >:( So nobody gets on and anybody doing so will get short shift and as for someone else wanting to ride on my fields what a cheek how would these kind of people like it if I came into there gardens riding a horse and causing damaging to there property
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Round here gates on fields get smashed by the local youth while joy riding so most of the farmers park a couple of tons of tree trunk or a subsoiler in the gateway instead. A week ago one of our neighbours had a caravan torched in his field a couple of hundred yards away from us. He'd left the gateway open so he could cultivate the field...
We have common land next to us. This creates all manner of entertainment because it seems most people are deeply ignorant about commons. The favourite assumption is that our drive is a public car park for dog-walkers. We get some splendid barrack room lawyers spouting b*****ks about their access rights. My favourite was an older middle-aged bloke who told me that under the Law of Property Act 1925 he could have the concrete drive he'd parked on removed. Unfortunately he was pontificating at the wrong person. The LPA 1925 while establishing the public right of access for "air and exercise" also prohibited vehicular access. If he'd even heard of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 there could have been a discussion.
By the way the LPA 1925 abolished the legal estate under which property was entailed . I'm betting that Round 3 of Downton Abbey uses this to resolve the inheritance issue about which the entire tortuous story has been built.
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Most people round here lock their gates to protect their livestock against being let out, or even stolen. And the empty fields are locked to stop gypsies camping there - they were on the local common right next to the golf club for two weeks, and council had bother evicting them. I drove past at the time they were due to leave, and the council had got all the local farmers with tractors ready to pull the caravans on to the road. But gypsies know the law and how long they can stay, and moved off themselves.
So, I suppose locking gates prevents bother like that!!
we got no gypsies round these here parts...just a horrible farmer who hates people i think :(
I'd be with the farmer on this one , as locking his gates means that someone has forced entry to get in .
So if there is an injury to the person breaking into the fields the liability angle changes to" engineer of their own downfall " .
Even if it was not the person who broke in the liability angle also indicates that the farmer tried to prevent poeple entering his field.
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If anyone needs to padlock/chain up a gate, remember to do the hinge end too. It's not uncommon to find the 'bolt end' locked and the gate lifted off it's hinges instead.
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yep crucks turned upside down :thumbsup: :farmer:
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Drill and pin both hinges and any nuts on the bolts to make it difficult to get the gate easily open .
The scrap scavengers around here seem to take the gate away entirely .
In East Anglia the hare coursers and dregs with heavy 4x4's just rear ended the gates at the middle to break the posts so they could do mud track hunting round the fields at night with lamps , shotguns or rifles .
Most of the farmers I knew there took to leaving an old set of rusted crop rollers or several 2 tonne concrete blocks behind the gates as well .
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Here in germany there is often a gate across a bit of track or forest 'roadway' that is locked, but there are no fences either side...which just looks wierd. If you have stock they are in an electric fence that has warning lables on if it is next to a public road/path.
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plantoid what you have written does not make sense rifles and shotguns are gun crime without permission on others land
i once heard of a farmer that buried a zig zag harrow in an old road to deter the off road fraternity ( that was in England)
this does not happen in Scotland there is no common ground all land is owned so illegal to go offroad with vehicles :farmer:
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I think most if not all English common land is owned by someone. Most people don't seem to know that and there's a widespread belief that everyone has unrestricted access.
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I padlock my gates firstly to stop people letting ponies, sheep etc. out and also to protect anyone who fancies walking through from the ram (who is a b......d) and the boar (who is not :))
We don't get many passers-by as we are well of the beaten track but we do get dog-walkers whose dogs are off the lead and the owners cut across to get to the lane a few fields away. I lost ewes and lambs one day so the padlocks stay >:(
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plantoid what you have written does not make sense rifles and shotguns are gun crime without permission on others land
i once heard of a farmer that buried a zig zag harrow in an old road to deter the off road fraternity ( that was in England)
this does not happen in Scotland there is no common ground all land is owned so illegal to go offroad with vehicles :farmer:
Gun crime / poaching or armed trespass is rife in the flat lands of East Anglia & on many big estates all round the country where there are deer .
Sometimes there is a massive traveller /gypsy influx , they had set up no end of break ins and robberies ,they know the police cant cope and will only deal with the worst crime. so leave the illegal hunting alone whilst they deal with the more serious stuff .
Sometimes we used to get forty or so 4x4 'sfrom B'ham or London turn up and they would course and shoot hares on anybody's fields in broad day light .
it's not unknown for gangs of 12 vehicles to take turns at coursing or lamping field with dogs or guns at night leaving a massive mess in the fields .
Whilst I was living in Guyhirn I discovered that lots of my farmer friends had been at the wrong end of a loaded shotgun whilst trying to prevent the crooks doing their stuff and have had to back down especially when one of the crooks threatens to come back and knee cap the farmer one night..
Sometimes it got a bit hairy when several farmers turned up on oneside ot the River Nene with rifles and started shooting over it to try and take out the lurchers & greyhounds in the field on the other side .
Any police vehicle entering the area by road is easily spotted miles before it gets to the place of action and a phone call is made to the other miscreants who do all sorts of dangerous things to try and stop their mates being caught .
Even the police chopper frequently got thwarted.
Occasionally the police heard chatter and set up a big sting using HGV's to block routes out the area. and successfully aprehend the miscreants.
I recall something like 18 people were sentenced for coursing & poaching in broad day light near GUYHIRN Wisbech in 2004 ish ,
They nearly all had unlicenced shotguns & came from the Birmingham area
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it is a mandatory 5 year sentence for having an unlicensed gun :farmer:
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It might well be illegal to have unlicenced firearms but it does not stop the buggers having them does it.
You only have to look at the convicion of the McCabe drug pushing family from Merseyside conducted under the code name of Matrix it has been ongoing for three years.
An SA80 and 1500 rounds were captured /recovered and they are not even on the top snow flakes of the masive iceberg .
We hear daily of unlicenced weapons and shoties being used in the comission of crime.