The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: scotelf on October 10, 2011, 02:13:35 pm
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Hi, I am hoping some of you could help me with some figures for my business plan please???
I have to do one for next week so that we get the okay from the council to stay on our land in our caravan while I get my smallholding underway. I have to admit I am finding all this a little stressful and have nearly bottled it today, instead I am asking for help. I realise they may knock me back anyway, but heyho, nothing ventured and all that...
I've already started with my chickens, and I have figures prepared for them. I aim to have pigs next year, and could do with an idea of prices re. abattoir and what I could expect to make from a pig per kg deadweight.
I would also like to rear turkeys next year for Christmas time, so any help on prices regarding them would be a bonus too. Or should i just phone the abattoir? I don't like to think I am wasting their time.
I do hope you can help with throwing some figures at me, thankfully I have an accountant friend at the ready to make sense of it all, as I am much better at looking after animals than dealing with people and the council ;)
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I'm just replying to wish you the best of luck, someone who can add up will, I'm sure, be along to help with figures :)
I would think a lot depends on how much land you have and how intensively you stock it.
I also think it a crime that a person can't live on their own piece of land and tend their animals without having to jump through hoops for the council >:( They could, after all, ensure that only you and your family have permission to live on the land and that no more developement happens.
I hope all goes well with you. I may well find myself living in a caravan on my land but as we are in the middle of no-where and won't be adverising the fact (except on here :o :-* :-*) I won't be seeking anyones permission!!!!
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Hi you could find some useful info in this recent thread on this forum
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=18856.0 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=18856.0)
and also on Stonehead's blog
http://stoneheadcroft.com/2011/03/02/calculating-the-cost-of-pork/ (http://stoneheadcroft.com/2011/03/02/calculating-the-cost-of-pork/)
good luck with the figures and with the council....:-)
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Totally agree with you Sylvia!!! We were clyped (scottish word for told on) to the council, as we are not visible from anywhere nearby, well apart from one neighbour, although they can't see us must have realised with the comings and goings- I know who told on me.
I don't want to do anything elaborate, just live here quietly with my animals, hubby and daughter :) but it seems that I must have permission to carry out agriculture on agricultural land and be here to tend to my animals and keep Mr Fox away from my birds. I know I am preaching to the already converted on here ::)
Thanks for the links lachlanandmarcus, that's great info on the pigs. :thumbsup:
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scotelf it is not that big a piece of land you have and therefore difficult to have a justifiable income from your enterprise
doing costings is one of the things i hate at least you are not doing it for a bank loan
i just love being grassed on the last time with the council i beat them funny it is the same council we both have :farmer:
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I'm half looking forward to the council turning up, they'll have to get by my greedy pigs first,trying to walk between their legs, the boar jumping up for grub, the porkers nipping their legs ;D ;D
Then they'll meet the dogs who will all be leaping up trying to kiss them and rifling their pockets for tit-bits, all except the Ibizan who will threaten to eat them(but never get within five feet of them!)
Seriously though it's a bit of a stressful time being iminently homeless so, Scotelf, brave face forward :wave:
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Should have borrowed your boar, pigs and dogs Sylvia, my three JR's don't have the same impact. I'd like to be there and laugh if the council ever turn up at yours ;D
I know Robert, They're obstructive at every turn, aren't they - and just put up more hoops.
I have another agricultural business, off-site as it were, to boost the income. I also have lots of other grazing (not for pigs mind) if I require it to rent - another 10 acres plus, but I had sheep or something else in mind for that. So, I can include that in the business plan, got to try.
What will they do if they don't grant me permission and I stay on my own patch, hmm? Anyone any experience?
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Reading this with interest, there's an ongoing situation in our local area where travellers have purchased a bit of land in the woods beside a core path and are now living there in an assortment of caravans, our local council apparently offered them the chance to apply for retrospective planning permission. They certainly have no livestock and are just camping there. Hope that you get this sorted out.
AnnS
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Have a little search for a book called 'Field to farm', this book explains in great detail the hoops you need to jump through in order to live on your land and the different possible objections you will be faced by the planning authorities and how to overcome these.
The book even includes a template business plan to get you started. This is something I really considered and even bought the book as I would love to build my own home and run a smallholding alas, this is not something I can do whilst in full-time employment. I think the business plan is even available for download without purchasing the book.
I'm afraid, you will need a minimum of 12.5 acres, be constructing a barn or other engineering works (this allows you to live on the land) whilst you build your smallholding enterprise. There are lots of other criteria including the livestock you keep must require 24/7 care in order for you to live there (if no dwelling is already present) i.e. sheep do not count as they have a lambing season, in which you may live there for a few weeks whilst they lamb. However, pigs do not have a season and so provided you have enough (don't ask how many enough is?) you then tick that box.
As for figures, I'd ring as many companies as possible to find out prices and distances from your holding. You will need to do this anyway if you are looking to start a business from it and find the most cost-effective solution for your needs whilst maintaining the level of quality you expect.
I recommend the book and forum if this is the way you are going. It will prove invaluable to aiding you through the planning minefields. There are many there including the author that have a great deal of planning experience.
Wishing you the very best of luck!
John
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Reading this with interest, there's an ongoing situation in our local area where travellers have purchased a bit of land in the woods beside a core path and are now living there in an assortment of caravans, our local council apparently offered them the chance to apply for retrospective planning permission. They certainly have no livestock and are just camping there. Hope that you get this sorted out.
AnnS
Ah! but they have "gypsy status" whether they are true gypsies or not and so, apparently, get preferential treatment.
Scotelf and myself, not being gypsies wouldn't stand a chance.
RACIST, did I hear you shout? I should think so >:( >:(
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Well, my business plan is off to the council with help from my mum's partner, who laid it all neatly out for me from my scribbles, and made it make sense, and profit ;D
Watch this space with what I get in return, LOL
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Good luck! :)
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Just an update on this thread ---Got my planning permission for my caravan. My business plan was approved apparently ;D ;D ;D
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congratulations :thumbsup: when is the house application going in :farmer:
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Yay! ;D Well done :thumbsup:
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Fantastic news, well done, all that stress and worry had a h appy ending :thumbsup:
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Thank you ;D
Not sure that we will apply for a house here Robert. But at least for the moment I can be on site getting on with things. Will decide later in the year if we want to apply to build. Unfortunately my back has been the worst ever the last few months and I may have to make a decision not to proceed with my dream to be here running it as a business. I may end up spending all the profit on the chiropractor, ::)
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Brilliant but go carefully with your back.
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Here in Ireland we don't seem to have this bureaucracy or at least i have never came across it.
Accept when building a dwelling. If you own a piece of land you keep what you like.
Horses, pigs,goats, etc. I don't think anyone would look over the hedge to see what was on the other side.
Farm sheds can be built without planning.
Am i right in thinking you need permission to put a caravan and keep animals on your own land.
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Thanks everyone ;D
mcginty, you don't need permission to keep animals on your own land. However, you can't site a caravan, let alone live in it, without planning consent. Nor can you build a farm shed, animal shelter....all need planning I'm afraid. It's a pain in the a***. Horses are even more difficult as they aren't classed as agricultural here, unless you can prove they are working on the farm/smallholding horses.
I'm thinking for the moment we'll stay in the caravan until the end of summer. Not take on too much that I can't manage alone, and try and find a house close by. That way the pressure is off me until I see how my back is. My husband helps me a lot, but he has just been told he may be going from 12 hr shifts to 8, so that means he will be away more days per week :(
Maybe in the future we'll get to live there....