The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Herdygirl on September 29, 2011, 10:16:18 pm
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Well me and OH are off to the Herdwick Sheep Society Accredited Ram sale on Saturday :) we have decided that only the best (or good enough) for our small flock of 30 is the way to go.
has anyone any tips for buying at auction and is it true that rams are sold with a companion?
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All the rams i've ever bought at auction have been individuals. Watch the bidding, and when it slows down (if still within your price range) put your bid in. Also be aware that a lot of breed sales deal in Guineas (£1.05), and there will be fees on top of that so the final hammer price won't be the total price!
Finally, have fun and good luck!
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First of all - very best of luck and have a great time! (Mitchells is the best canteen of any auction mart I know, by the way.)
I've never heard of tups being sold with a companion and cannot see anything in the catalogue to suggest that they are at this sale.
I cannot see anything to say whether the prices will be in guineas or pounds - some breeding stock sales are in guineas. Ask if you are not sure. At most farm livestock sales, all the commission is paid by the vendor but at some rare breed sales the buyer also pays a commission. The catalogue doesn't mention a buyer's commission - but ask if you are not sure.
Tips for buying at auction:
1. Arrive in time to have a good look at all the animals in their pens before the sale starts. Get in the pens with them and check temperament, fleece, condition, testicles (in the case of tups), teeth, etc. Look for signs of blue spray on feet. Some people like to talk to the vendor if there, some prefer to play their cards close to their chest and not let the vendor know of their interest.
2. Select the animals you like and are prepared to take home with you before entering the ring. Mark your catalogue accordingly. Do not bid on animals you have not marked in your catalogue. Be prepared to not like an animal in the ring you liked in the pens. They look different in the ring. Only bid on animals you still like in the ring and you marked in your catalogue.
3. Decide what your signal is. Raising your catalogue or buyer's number is universal. If the auctioneer doesn't know you, this is probably the best signal. Some old-timers like to make teeny little moves that only the auctioneer can see. ::) After your initial bid, you can nod or move your catalogue again to say 'yes' or shake your head to say 'no'.
4. Make sure you are positioned where the auctioneer can see you. Do not look at the auctioneer directly at all unless you want to bid on the animal in the ring. (I once nearly had to tell BH I'd bought a tonne of granite for £2. Thank Freda someone else was prepared to pay a fiver for it!)
5. Decide on your top price for any animal you are likely to bid on. You will probably keep going another two or three bids above this, so take this into account when setting yourself your limit! Some people wait to see how the bidding goes before putting their hand up. You can lose an animal this way. I prefer to get into the bidding straight away if I like the animal; you can stop when the price goes over your limit, you know! Usually the auctioneer will seek a fairly high price as s/he starts to auction an animal, and will then come down until s/he gets a bid. I like to get in pretty soon after that, ie, the second or third bid. The auctioneer will not let you get away with making one bid and then dropping out, so don't enter the bidding very close to your limit unless you are prepared to go over your limit for this animal.
6. It may take you some time to 'tune in' to what the auctioneer is saying. They speak very fast and it is a bit codified. So try to spend some time watching the bidding on animals you don't want to buy to get your ear in and get the hang of how the amounts go up (£20 or £50 a bid? Not likely to be £100 for Herdwicks?)
7. Some animals may have a reserve on them, also a vendor can indicate to the auctioneer that they do or do not wish to sell at the current bid price during the auction - so watch the vendor for shakes and nods of the head. If you are winning bid and the vendor is shaking his/her head, or if the current bid is not as high as a pre-set reserve, the auctioneer should say something like, "S/he's not happy," to indicate this to you. You can either bid again, or let the animal be 'passed out' (not sold in the ring) and go and find the vendor in the pens and agree a price there. (The transaction will still go through the auction centre and commissions will be payable.) You do of course risk that someone else beats you to it and you lose the animal.
8. When you have bought your tup, the staff will need to know your details. They may come to you with a card to fill out, or if not, shout your name out to them and make your way to the front where they will give you the card to fill out. (If it's a buyer's number sale, you will have registered your details at the office in order to get your number, and just have to show your number, but this sale does not seem to be a buyer's number sale.)
9. You will have to pay at the office in order to get a pass out to take your tup away. They will also print the movement documents for you.
10. The vendor may come and find you and give you some 'luck money'. It'll not be much, it's not about the amount. Not all vendors give luck, and some leave it in the office for you, in which case the teller will have given it to you when you paid in the office.
11. Once you have your pass out, when you are ready to take him home, find out where the loading bays are and get your trailer reversed up to a dock. You need two of you, at least - one goes in front of the tup getting the gates right and the other follows behind, pushing him along. Do not assume that any gate will be in the state you passed it 45 seconds ago...
12. Don't forget to complete the movement documentation and send the top copy off to your local Trading Standards office within two days.
I wish I'd had the above notes before I had to buy at an auction, so I hope they are useful to you.
The first time I bid on a tup, I actually opened the bidding as the auctioneer didn't seem to be able to get a bid, and then froze. Someone else made a bid and I just stared at the autioneer in terror. Thankfully he led me into making another bid and knocked the tup down to me immediately before I had a heart attack. (Seriously, be prepared for your pulse to race to exotic heights!)
Have fun, good luck - and we want pictures of him when you get him home!
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Thanks girls
i appreciate the replies, good advice there from both of you :). will post some pics
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If the auctioneer is wandering around before the sale they quite often appreciate a quick word with any new potential purchasers beforehand. It is worth ringing the office and asking how they like to do things. And if you think you won't remember your holding number take a written note of it with you. I am useless at remembering numbers so I keep a note on my pc and print it out every time we go anywhere where we might buy something.
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We are starting a new flock of Herdwicks in kent, we have just brought our ram at ashford market, it was amasing as we were there to get our charollais which we did and there happened to be a couple of Herdwick rams there and we couldnt restist, from a breeder in sussex. Id like to stay in touch as we are still learning about the breed !!
my tips
have a good look at stock in the pens before hand and talk to the sellers, they will tell you everything, feel for condition, check teeth and feet.
mark the ones in your catalogue and stick to the choices, maybe pick out 10 or 15 that you prefer
come into the bidding near the end
after you have won a bid, go see the seller and see if he gives you any luck money, I was given £3.00 :)
dont have a fight while waiting to reverse your vehicle for loading
keep out of the way of any person who cant reverse a trailer !!!
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keep out of the way of any person who cant reverse a trailer !!!
Oh, and if that's YOU - get someone else to reverse it for you. They'll think more of you for that than if you hold everyone up at the loading dock, or worse!
(Personally I am brilliant at reversing a trailer. I just can't always do it with an audience... ;) ;D)
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These are really good, comprehensive answers, almost worth printing off for future reference if that's possible. Things are slightly different at our local mart, but the general rules are the same. Especially the bit about your pulse rate and getting carried away. Oh and being from England in a Scottish Livestock mart, having to tune your ear in to the auctioneer, even after 20 years! Good luck and enjoy, I would love to be there too.
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.........Auctions can be a bit nerve racking! so be clear in your mind what you want before hand.
Good luck :hshoe:
Let us know how you get on :wave:
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it was my first time last Friday to buy from a large market with an auctioneer, I did impress my wife who came along for the day, what she didnt know was when she went to the toilet I had a word with Mark the auctioneer who took down my details as I wasnt registered at the market, he gave me a wink and said ill look out for you...when we won our bid he brought the hammer down and said "Sold to Mr Walter" and pointed at me!!
my wife looked at me and said how the hell does he know your name !!!
it was very amusing !!, cant believe he remember my name and there was over 100 people there
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A wonderfully encyclopaedic answer Sally :)
I would just add that bidding at auction can be addictive - many people go home with things/animals they didn't intend to bid on, so make sure you stick to your original decisions.
Have fun and let us know what you buy :sheep:
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We are starting a new flock of Herdwicks in kent, we have just brought our ram at ashford market, it was amasing as we were there to get our charollais which we did and there happened to be a couple of Herdwick rams there and we couldnt restist, from a breeder in sussex. Id like to stay in touch as we are still learning about the breed !!
my tips
have a good look at stock in the pens before hand and talk to the sellers, they will tell you everything, feel for condition, check teeth and feet.
mark the ones in your catalogue and stick to the choices, maybe pick out 10 or 15 that you prefer
come into the bidding near the end
after you have won a bid, go see the seller and see if he gives you any luck money, I was given £3.00 :)
dont have a fight while waiting to reverse your vehicle for loading
keep out of the way of any person who cant reverse a trailer !!!
Who were the breeders in Sussex?
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I cant remember her name, it was an older lady with a walking stick !!
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Hi
Just an update on the Auction.
We had a great day, lovely people, lovely area, Sally was right... smashing canteen. we learned lots, remembered all the good advice and enjoyed ourselves.
we discovered we had a better eye than we thought, nearly all the rams we had marked went for over 600gns, and 2 made 1600 and 1900gns!
however we stuck to our plan and bought one from the breeder who made 1600.
hubby decided he liked bdiding so much he wanted to go for another one!
Here is Edward
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What a handsome boy. So glad you had an enjoyable and successful day. :)
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He look fab doesnt he, here is jackson the won we brought !!
Think about the name can you guess why we called him jackson ??
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He is lovely :)
t :) :)inking about the name i can only th :)ink of the jackson five (5 legs) but then i have a bad sense of humour! ;D
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we called him jackson because.......
herdwicks start off with black faces and end up with white ones !!! :P :P
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Dan, Sally's note is the real McCoy. It needs to be nailed up somewhere permanently.
Sally, what a lot of good advice and so well said.