The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Bright Raven on September 26, 2011, 07:03:03 pm
-
A year or so ago the next doors spaniel dog (not well trained and without a collar) kept breaking into my garden and chasing my chickens. On one occasion my black rock was so badly shaken it never laid again and died a month later. Now the damn dog has broken into my field during the week end and chased the sheep. The owner was asked to be more responsible and keep the dog on a lead. This morning it was let loose and it broke into the turkey pen and scragged one bird to death before being recovered by the bloke next door, who had to break through the gate to recover the dog.
I want to give him the bird and charge him £50 for my losses. What do you think I should do? Has anyone had any experience of taking out court injunctions on other peoples dogs? Is strangling the same as shooting in the eyes of the law? I am a lousy shot but I recon I could twist its head off with my bare hands I am so cross.
-
You should have reported all these incidents to the police and the dog warden at the time, and it is not too late to do so on this occasion. Phone them now. Personally as a dog breeder, owner, and judge i would expect that to happen if any of mien got away from me. This dog is NOT under control and the owner is irresponsible. He must be told to change his ways by an authoritative person. I would also expect to have to pay for the damage my dog caused.
-
Thanks for your good advice. I have just called the Dog Warden and the police for an incident number. Feeling less cross now I have taken some action.
-
when 3 dogs (2 lerchers and a greyhound) ran into our garden (off the lead) and mawled our cat we only got the cost of the vets bill in compensation.... >:( . the police said that only if we felt we were in danger could they do anything about the dog.........
i'd tell him to cough up at least £50.... and the cost of the lock!
-
when 3 dogs (2 lerchers and a greyhound) ran into our garden (off the lead) and mawled our cat we only got the cost of the vets bill in compensation.... >:( . the police said that only if we felt we were in danger could they do anything about the dog.........
i'd tell him to cough up at least £50.... and the cost of the lock!
A cat is one thing, farm stock is a totally different ball game. Farmers are allowed to shoot a dog that is seen running in a field with sheep - not even if it is actually chasing them - just running in the same field! where I was walking my dogs today there is easy access to a grain field, my older bitch jumped a burn and went into the field to hunt pheasants. I immediately whistled her back even though I knew there were no animals in there, just in case she could get further out where there were any.
-
Do we think that if there is the right to shoot it could also include humanly and swiftly dispatching with any other means? I am rarely out with my gun and even then I would probably miss. I am however, a crack shot with a cosh.
-
Also I wish that everyone was as responsible as doganjo.
-
Do we think that if there is the right to shoot it could also include humanly and swiftly dispatching with any other means? I am rarely out with my gun and even then I would probably miss. I am however, a crack shot with a cosh.
For goodness sake don't take matters into your own hands. Farmers who shoot dogs without good reason are rarely popular even if they do have that right. ;) I'm sure the Police and Dog warden are your best bets.
-
How awful for you. :( I hope things get sorted out and something done about that irresponsible dog owner sooner rather than later.
-
I would find it hard to threaten to kill someones dog and follow it through - even if it was frightening my stock. Something on the spur of the moment maybe different.
I cant believe your neighbour dont have that same respect back to you and your animals. - Its the owner that should be made to feel respect. Hard problem to solve though.
Baz
-
Last summer, one of our neighbours dogs got into our garden chased and killed 2 chickens, and injured another chicken and my cockeral. The neighbours were on holiday, and the person supposedly caring for their dogs wasnt doing the job properly. We charged them for 3 new chickens as the injured one didnt lay for a while, but what I didnt know, was that I should have informed the Gendarmes and the Mayor as it would have been classed as a dangerous dog. I only knew about a month after that that was the proceedure over here. If anything like it happens again, God forbid, Ill be on the phone PDQ!!
( Our neighbours are about 400 metres away, as we live in the middle of the countryside!)
-
Years ago I had a yearling filly, she was about 15 hands and a lovely looking girl. I was walking up the road to check her when I saw two men throw a pair of lurcher dogs into a van and leg it. When I got to my field the filly was no where to be seen. I found her lying over a stone wall unable to get up. She had the skin of her back legs, damaged to her back which she never recovered from, vet and I were pretty sure the dogs had chased her and in her panic she had tried to clear the wall which was far to high for her to jump. If i had been there god knows what I would have done, took me years to get over losing her. We had to put sheep netting and electric fencing everywhere to keep my neighbours dog out when we bought this place, they thought it was funny to see their dog PLAYING with my foals. I put my big cob mare and her foal out one day and the dog jumped over the fence, lets just say it never happened again, mare was very foal proud.!!!
-
I'm so sorry to hear about your turkey :( I think you're well within yor rights to ask them for some compensation.
I'm having a similar problem............with my own dog :-\
We've had laying hens for a number of years (they live in a big run in the garden, but free range regularly) and the dog has never shown any interest in them. This year we decided to get 6 hubbards and 3 turkeys and have a go at raising them. I don't know if it's because the hubbards were slower or smaller (or if Boris overheard us saying they were for eating ::)) but we lost 4 of the 6 chickens last week. Initial reaction was fox or buzzard (we have lots of both) but then we found a body and the dog started farting terribly (they way he does if he's had too much meat) then we saw him chase after the remaining 2. Needless to say they were quickly added to the safety of the garden run. But today, while I was out working, hubby let the dog out and when he went to let him back in discovered 2 dead turkeys >:( My brother's girlfriend caught him 'in the act' :-[
I would never consider getting rid of Boris (he's a big, soft lump of a rescue dog and great with the kids and people in general) and after all, he's just doing what comes natuarally but it's a major worry with the piglets. He used to go and 'play' with them, in a kinda babysitting way.................that's all going to have to stop :( and I'll have to be doubly carefull when it comes to lambing time. I would hate to think he'd even try it, but I know that if he did I would face the prospect of a shot dog or a hefty compensation payout and if he did do anything, I'd have to reconsider whether he could stay with us or not.
I'd like to think I'm a fairly responsible dog owner, but it's amazing how many people (despite signs warning them) just let their dog's out to run wherever they like or don't put them on a lead........time for a new public information campaign me thinks !
Karen :wave:
-
Update.
I had a conversation with the dog owner and he will not accept liability because I can't prove it. He also says that he can't see how the dog got in or out of my turkey pen. Worst of all he also suggested that I killed the bird myself in order to create a reason to have a moan about his dog.
He is also furious that I have informed the police and the dog warden before talking to him about it. He is refusing to pay any compensation. He has also said that the dog was only in my field for 30 seconds.
I know it was there for more than three minutes because I have two calls on my answer machine from my neighbour with time stamps telling me that the dog was in the field and the calls were three mins apart.
What would you do next?
-
Well, part of me would want to tell him next time any dog is on your property, worrying livestock it will be shot :o so if he's certain it's not his dog he's nothing to worry about ::)
But the other (slightly more rational) part of me would talk to the police or dog warden to see what your legal position is, since he's denying it. Although it's probably not what you want to hear, I doubt they'd do much without concrete proof. It does sound like he's particularly fired up though, very defensive and will probably come off looking like a bit of a tw*t if/when anyone official visits, so hopefully they'll be more inclined to add weight to your case, rather than his. Killed the turkey yourself, just to moan about his dog :o I've had neighbours like that ::) Hope you get it sorted soon
Karen x
-
The dog warden has given us some good advice. If the animal goes on to our property again and is not accompanied by the owner he will take it away and impound it for collection by the owner with a fine. He has also liaised with the police about the incident. I am still waiting for the police to get back to me. I am pleased that the issue has been taken seriously by him. I have just been on youtube trying to find film of spaniels jumping over fences. It seems that English Springers are very capable of making a jump over a four foot fence.
My next concerned will be for my ewes aborting, and also that now the dog knows where to hunt it's instinct will be to return if he is off the lead again. You know the bugger has also dug up my raised bed with strawberry plants in, I found the mess this evening when I was watering in my new fruit trees. A small extra to keep my blood boiling. Thanks to all for your helpful words, shared experiences and support.
Karen, I am sorry to hear about Boris and your chickens and turkeys. :(
-
would it be possible to get a security camera overlooking the area thru a bedroom window, they seem quite cheap now and would plug into a video recorder. on a long play setting you should get quite a few hours at a time.
-
Should you find your poultry attacked by a dog, you may find the following links useful, these will provide you with all the legal information you will need to fight your case against the owner for recompense and also your legal rights in relation to dogs straying onto your land in the future.
For those who have questioned the information I have previously imparted, I know this information is correct and legal because it is what I used in my case against a dog owner to successfully gain compensation and also the matters I discussed with the Police following the attack in relation to my right to destroy any animal found worrying my livestock.
I sincerely hope none of you ever have to witness the devastation I did when I came home to find many of my birds dead or injured, but if you do, look here first as it will save you alot of the legwork I had to do when I was most upset.
To those of you who question my tone in replies, I believe you have taken a dislike to my writing style and take every opportunity to 'have a dig', you know who you are. And to those who tried to support me, thank you I apprieciate it.
Those who know me know that I will always try and help people in any way I can, if that ruffles feathers, so be it!
Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/1-2/28 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/1-2/28)
Particular attention should be made to this section...
3 Interpretation and supplementary provisions. E+W+S.(1)In this Act—.
“agricultural land” means land used as arable, meadow or grazing land, or for the purpose of poultry farming, pig farming, market gardens, allotments, nursery grounds or orchards; and“livestock” means cattle, sheep, goats, swine, horses, or poultry, and for the purposes of this definition “cattle” means bulls, cows, oxen, heifers or calves, “horses” includes asses and mules, and “poultry” means domestic fowls, turkeys, geese or ducks.
Animals Act 1971
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/22 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/22)
Particular attention should be made to the following sections
3 Liability for injury done by dogs to livestock. E+W.Where a dog causes damage by killing or injuring livestock, any person who is a keeper of the dog is liable for the damage, except as otherwise provided by this Act
9 Killing of or injury to dogs worrying livestock. E+W.(1)In any civil proceedings against a person (in this section referred to as the defendant) for killing or causing injury to a dog it shall be a defence to prove—.
(a)that the defendant acted for the protection of any livestock and was a person entitled to act for the protection of that livestock; and.
(b)that within forty-eight hours of the killing or injury notice thereof was given by the defendant to the officer in charge of a police station..
Dangerous Dogs Act 1991
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/199 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/199) ... troduction
Dangerous Dogs (Amendment) Act 1991
DEFRA Advice On Dangerous Dogs
http://ww2.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/dangerous/ (http://ww2.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/dangerous/)
-
The dog warden has given us some good advice. If the animal goes on to our property again and is not accompanied by the owner he will take it away and impound it for collection by the owner with a fine. He has also liaised with the police about the incident. I am still waiting for the police to get back to me. I am pleased that the issue has been taken seriously by him. I have just been on youtube trying to find film of spaniels jumping over fences. It seems that English Springers are very capable of making a jump over a four foot fence.
My next concerned will be for my ewes aborting, and also that now the dog knows where to hunt it's instinct will be to return if he is off the lead again. You know the bugger has also dug up my raised bed with strawberry plants in, I found the mess this evening when I was watering in my new fruit trees. A small extra to keep my blood boiling. Thanks to all for your helpful words, shared experiences and support.
Karen, I am sorry to hear about Boris and your chickens and turkeys. :(
Ach, he's a dog doing what comes naturally unfortunately (and he's done it again >:( down to one turkey :'( thankfully the turkey is going to live with Lil just til Xmas ;) :yum:)
Sad though it is, it proves that once they've done it once.................
I'm glad your warden is taking it seriously, but it's a shame they need to wait til 'next time' ::) :-\
-
It's the neighbours from hell again! At least you have the phone messages as some kind of proof. If anything should happen again (and I hope it won't) take photos, preferably on a camera that records date, and preferably of the dog doing the deed. I also feel sorry for the dog as it is being blamed for bad behaviour which it should have been prevented from doing when it was a pup. It's always the people to blame. Best of luck!
-
Hi guys, I have had similar problems, the lady that rents the field next to mine for her horses lets 2 rescue German pointers run wild they have come onto my property several times that then ends in a dog fight with my 2 jack Russell's and 1 chihuahua who has a pack are pretty nasty, they chase joggers up the lane and just intimidate every thing however, I had 2 lambs that only had a week to go before finishing went out to the field on the Saturday morning and found 1 dead with a canine tooth mark in its side obviously I have no proof that it was those dogs but I did approach the woman and told that if I see her dogs on my land again I will shoot it, people that have working breeds of dogs and do nothing with them really annoy me as the dogs are bored and will go off and find there own amusement and usually that means what comes naturally to them.
-
Make sure you hurt them in the pocket. If any of our stock was killed by dogs I would take it to the highest level. Here in France we have the 'chasse' to contend with. They hunt for deer, wild boar, rabbits whatever. It is moves shoot it. Most members of the chasse are reputable but unfortunately not all. We always worry when lambing time approaches and get the flock in a week or so beforehand. All of our land is fenced and electric wired but some of the small chasse dogs still manage to get in (with the help of their owners)! Jan
-
I have been to the police and seen a CSO to make a full report. They have offered to visit the dog owner and show him the relevant laws and talk through their responsibilities. Very supportive and helpful. Tomorrow I will ask if he has decided to compensate me having had a week to think it through. If he doesn't I will call the CSO to ask him to make a home visit. Henstock's links are very helpful. Thanks again to all who have pooled their experiences and thoughts.
-
I'm glad the links were of help to you, the law is on your side.
How did you get on speaking to him about compensation today?
-
He is avoiding me, will update soon. A part of me is concerned that he could start to complain about my cockerels in the morning or my sheep blarting which they do every time they see me but especially in the morning when I am the walking feed bucket. I do want to keep him on side if possible. It's a fine line when you are attached by your semi.
On the bright side if we start a noise war I will defiantly win. Used to be in a rock band and still have Marshall stacks and a PA system, not to mention a lot of Prog rock LP's. I could rev up Hocus Pocus by Focus or Free Bird by Lynrd Skynard at least 140dB's.
-
CCTV?
Our former neighbour's dog broke into the rabbit's pen years ago and beheaded the poor thing. Bl... terriers, bred for rabbiting. When she sent us the water bill I casually mentioned my daughter's distress - we never again paid a water bill. The new neighbours also have stray dogs but as they have their own hens I don't think we have to be too concerned - BUT
I wish there was still an old fashioned sling shot around, I was good with those as a kid! Aiming for the head I'd hit the rear, good enough ::) :&>
-
When we'd have unwelcome 4-legged visitors, my dad used to put out an old metal dustbin with something tasty in it, somewhere it was easy for the marauder to jump in, lid off, in view of the kitchen window. He'd watch out for the little thief, who inevitably would jump in and start munching. Dad would creep out, pick up the spade he'd left there for the purpose and smash the spade onto the side of the bin, making the most almighty racket.
Squeals, vertical lift off, all hair raised in all directions, scuttling legs and our friend would vamoose, usually never to visit again.
And a lot of fun for all onlookers, too. :D
-
When we'd have unwelcome 4-legged visitors, my dad used to put out an old metal dustbin with something tasty in it, somewhere it was easy for the marauder to jump in, lid off, in view of the kitchen window. He'd watch out for the little thief, who inevitably would jump in and start munching. Dad would creep out, pick up the spade he'd left there for the purpose and smash the spade onto the side of the bin, making the most almighty racket.
Squeals, vertical lift off, all hair raised in all directions, scuttling legs and our friend would vamoose, usually never to visit again.
And a lot of fun for all onlookers, too. :D
Ha ha - what a brilliant idea - safe and no harm done to anyone, no animosity to neighbours either. :thumbsup:
-
northfifeduckling you can still get slings
annie no animositiy if the pet owners were to see you doing this they would not think it funny :farmer:
-
if the pet owners were to see you doing this they would not think it funny :farmer:
Oh Robert, everyone thought it was funny. It was Tom & Jerry in real life. All that was missing was the 'scuttling' music to accompany the rapidly scrabbling legs. If there'd been You've Been Framed in those days we'd have videoed it and got £250 a time! ;D
-
i done a similar thing one time traveling to a building site just at the entrance a dog comes ambling over the play area scrambles through the wire fence and sits at the kerb waiting for me to pass i rolled the front bucket down and quickly rattled it back up that dog took of trying to get through 3 gaps in the wire at the one time when i got on site i could do nothing for laughing and every time i thought of it i burst out laughing :farmer:
-
if the pet owners were to see you doing this they would not think it funny
Oh Robert, everyone thought it was funny. It was Tom & Jerry in real life. All that was missing was the 'scuttling' music to accompany the rapidly scrabbling legs. If there'd been You've Been Framed in those days we'd have videoed it and got £250 a time!
Maybe if the pet owners saw this, then they must have actually seen their pet trespassing and not brought it undr control?
-
I'd rather see my pet terrified out it's life (and maybe learn a lesson) than have it shot though ;)