The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: andywalt on September 17, 2011, 05:55:34 pm
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Next Friday I am going to the tup sale at Ashford Market, I need a terminal sire to produce nice meat lambs for next years crop, our ewes are a mixture of suffolks x romneys, romneys, and romney x texels may I ask what would your choice of terminal sire be? I am moving towards a charollais as I believe it has sweeter meat, the lambs are lively at birth and grow fast, and the lambs have slimmer bone structure for easier lambing as stated on the charollais website !! I am not sure of there temprement either?
at the sale there will be mainly texels and charollais with some Lleyn and the odd Bleu de Maine and some suffolk tups alot of choice !!!
any tips?
andy
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Choice of a ram breed is a very individual thing, depends on what you intend to do with the lamb, where and how you sell, what is popular locally how fast and what weights you require, sorry more questions and no answers ??? . CHAROLLAIS are good good workers,lively lambs good suckers and grow fast weighing heavy for their size, temprement of any animal is down to the keeper if you are quiet and calm the animal will be as well :thumbsup:
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I sell locally, whole lamb butchered by the local butcher who boxes and labells the joints and delivered by me, so i send them off when they reach 40kg approx, I want tender and very tasty meat so my customers want to remain on my list for the following year, at the same time as I have to lamb outside im aware that I need as easy lambing as possable and the lambs to be thrifty and hardy from birth.
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CHAROLLAIS should do the job :thumbsup:
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We have charollais and texels. Everything you have said about charollais I would corroberate. Easy lambing, lively lambs, laid back temperament, put on weight well (without getting over-fat; in fact our butcher thinks they can be too lean), weigh well for their size. Seriously tender, sweet meat. :yum: :yum: (It is lean but always succulent.) Our tups have worked very well and are very tame and easy to manage. In fact we don't always even pen them to tip them up and do their feet!
The only down side is they have not got much wool, particularly as newborns. So if you are somewhere where you could have a cold wet lambing, make sure you buy a tup with plenty of wool on his head - his lambs will be a little less bare than those of a bare-headed tup. And make sure you have those little plastic lamb jackets ready when lambing time comes around.
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thanks very much indeed Sally its very nice to hear first hand, so how do they compare with texels may I ask? what are the differances? advantages disadvantages?
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Another vote for Charollais. When compared to Texel, they are easier lambing, quicker to get up, livelier and will grow like weeds. It's true that they don't have a lot of wool, but unless the conditions are extreme they should be OK, so long as they have got full bellies.
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As we are in the southeast that shouldnt be a problem and as I will lamb them outside in the beginning of April it should be a safe bet,
It looks as if charallais are going to be the ideal tup for me, there are about 40 or 50 in the catalogue for the tup sale at Ashord next friday.
as for the wool it will be very interesting as the mums are romney x so lots of wool :) its amasing how genetics works as the lambs will generally have the traits of the tup !!
I will let you know how I get on at the market, will be a first for me, and hope I can get a nice one without paying over the top.
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how do they compare with texels may I ask? what are the differances? advantages disadvantages?
Well, we have used both and still have both.
Charollais probably better for easy lambing, although we're trying a Dutch Texel (smaller shoulders, shorter legs) this year so I'll report back on how they compare.
Texel better for lambs having some wool on - which matters up here in the far north west of England!
I think Charollais is a sweeter meat, more succulent and tasty. Texel is very tender but in our opinion not as tasty.
We sell lambs both to our local butcher and through agents to the supermarkets' abattoirs. Our butcher prefers Texel, he is happy with the level of fat covering on these and is less comfortable with the very very lean Charollais meat. The supermarkets' abattoirs grade all our lambs very well; we don't think there is much difference in conformation and therefore the price we get for either.
There's no question the Charollais lambs fatten quicker - be aware they may weigh more than you expect from looking at their size as they are so solid! If you have plenty of grass and don't feed cake this won't matter so much, but if you use cake to finish lambs and/or feed lactating ewes it will make a difference. Also, lamb prices tend to drop away later in the season so the earlier they finish the more pence per kilo you should get. If you're not lambing till April this won't have a huge impact on you, I suspect, but we start lambing in February and will get quite a few lambs away while the prices are still higher.
Our Charollais ewe lambs that we've kept on for breeding have inherited their dad's laid-back temperament - they are very easy to manage. Texels aren't hard but ours (and their offspring) are definitely less laid back than the Charollais. (Having said which I did have a very laid-back, friendly Texel on my previous farm, and all his daughters are very friendly too.)
Neither breed has particularly good feet, I'm afraid. On our cold wet ground we will need to attend to a significant proportion of feet, sadly.
You might wonder why we continue to use Texels when we clearly rate the Charollais so highly.
Firstly, we have been able to buy good Texel tups for quite a bit less than we've paid for the Charollais. I think this is just supply and demand - there are more people breeding Texels as terminal sires and up here there is a lot more choice of perfectly good enough Texel tups than there are Charollais.
Secondly, we value our local butcher's custom and he prefers Texel.
Thirdly, having had bad experiences with breeding pure in the past, BH finds it best to have all breeding females (cattle included) be no more than 3/4 of the same meat breed. So, for instance, we have put some of our half-Charollais girls to another Charollais, but now the girls from that mating need a different breed on them.
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Just a wee comment: I thought it was the "in thing" to buy British :D And even better to buy locally ?
Having used a Lleyn terminal sire these past few years and before that Texels (with awful lambing difficulties outside), I'm now going for less size and more flavour.
I've just eaten a pure Icelandic wether which was absolutely delicious, so this year I'm going to use Icelandic tups on my (Hebridean x Lleyn) x Lleyn ewes, plus my pure Hebridean ewes, plus my Hebridean x Icelandic ewes plus my pure Icelandic ewes.
And in case you ask, Icelandics most likely originated in the Scottish Isles and were taken north ;D
Jane in the Hebrides !
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Just a wee comment: I thought it was the "in thing" to buy British :D And even better to buy locally ?
I wish!
Despite the schemes some of them have for named breed beef, the supermarkets have no interest in the breed of lamb; they pay on weight, leanness and conformation. You won't get the top grades and hence top price unless you use continental sires. We do have to tick a box to say which part of the country the lamb is from, so they'll market ours as 'North of England' lamb.
Our butcher specialises in traditional breed cattle and buys Highland, Galloway and Blue-grey beef from local producers, but he likes Texel lamb. We've tried to sell him local breeds but he's not interested - he says it's the same amount of cutting up, more work presenting it to look appealing, less kilos per carcase - so less profit.
We buy locally ourselves; even though we are buying continental breeds of tups we buy locally bred ones where possible.
How do you sell your lamb, Islay Jane?
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sally
thanks so much for giving me the time and the in depth detail you have had the trouble to explain, thanks for the lesson in charallais and texel comparison its been very interesting and priceless info, hopefully I will be able to get a half decent tup at the market this Friday I will try hard to spot a nice one and hope I can afford it when the bidding starts. :)
andy
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Hi i would say Hampshire Down every time but i am crazy about them. They do lamb easy, the tups are quiet and contrary to what everyone thinks, they are not fat and do not produce fat progeny,they also live a long time, rams still working long after other breeds. plus their lambs finish quickly.
( i did say i was partial to them) ;D
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I too would say Hampshire Down We use a Hampshire over our Lleyn girls and get a good finish :thumbsup: We're trying him with some Suffolks and Llanwenogs this time We just like sheep :thumbsup:
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looking at the catalogue for this friday there is now over 180 rams to be sold mainly charallais and texel, 3 blue de maine, and only one oxford down !! So not any Hampshire Downs to look at !!
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Hey! Get the Oxford!
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we're trying a texel for first time this year, he arrived yesterday so see how he goes. most of our flock is Llanwenogs, with some welsh mountain.
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We have Llanwenogs too BenBhoy, i love those sheep they fab mums and great on their feet, our hampshire tups cross really well with them
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yeah, smashing breed. good feet like you said and not bad to handle, for a mountain breed. i'd reccomend them for sure. :thumbsup:
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tomorrow is the day, the ram sale at ashford market, I hope I get a nice one !! fingers crossed
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Good luck at the sale andywalt :thumbsup:
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The prices were 25% lower today than last year at Ashford market so we were pleased to win a bid on a very nice charollais ram lamb today, you wouldnt believe he was born this year, and very good natured.......we paid £350.00 for him, there were approx 100 sold today top prices were £540 each, lowest £280.00
my wife spotted a herdwick shearling and we got him for £85.00, altho we wont be putting him on the herdwick lambs this season we will have to keep him happy with some other girls....
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Your Charollais looks a really nice tup lamb - well done!
(The Herdwick looks great too, but I don't really know enough about them to express an opinion.)
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I've been waiting to see what you finished up with ;D Love the Herdwick looks alovely boy :thumbsup: We have several tups for our fast becoming VERY mixed flock :-[ and OH says i can't have a Charollais lol Have the tups in now will be an interesting mix for next spring :sheep:
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what do you have padge? why cant you have a charollais? heres aother pic, he is a very large chap for a ram lamb that why we went for him and paid a bit less for him, but very surprised how good natured they are !! unless he changes when hes in with the girls
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heres aother pic, he is a very large chap for a ram lamb that why we went for him and paid a bit less for him, but very surprised how good natured they are !! unless he changes when hes in with the girls
Our two have always been very laid-back and happy to see you with cake or just a pat.
Our current boy was bought as a very large and well-developed ram lamb and worked a man's shift at 9 months old. Since he'll always come and eat cake from the hand you can give him a lot of work; the tups that won't feed while they're working are harder to use.
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have you any photos of your two sally?
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have you any photos of your two sally?
I don't ... but the older is here:
http://charollais-sheep.com/sales.html (http://charollais-sheep.com/sales.html) - scroll down, he's third from the bottom : Foulrice Falcon. We bought him as an aged tup, an absolute bargain for a tup of that calibre. I'm afraid he has now gone to the final sale. :(
I'll take a pic of Fred in the next day or two.
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a fine specimen, look forward to the photos of your present ones, :)
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Andy :wave: we have Lleyn, a few Suffolk, Llanwenog and a couple of Hampshire ewes...........we also have A Lleyn a Llanwenog and a Hampshire tup..........he says we have enough tups :-[ :sheep: :sheep: :sheep:
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and out of your three tups which one produces the best meat lambs for you?
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Definately the Hampshire producing robust fast finishing lambs :thumbsup:
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yippee hampshires are fab!!! :thumbsup:
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I asked because someone said to me the llanwog y thingy :) was a very good terminal sire but I wasnt connvinced ! how do you find them? whats the advantages?
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I wouldn't use the llanwenog as a terminal sire but definately cross a hampshire tup with a Llanwenog ewe for a good meat lamb.
We also cross a first cross Llanwenog x hamp with a hamp again and get a cracking meat lamb
But it's all personal preference, Charolais and suffolks make great terminal sires too
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thanks very much, im slowly learning about all the breeds and what they are capable of, its nice to be able to check out opinions, I didnt think much of the llanwenog myself either I must admit
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we had the llanwenog for breeding pure with a view to expansion same with the Lleyn :wave:
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for breeding pure is very differant, conservation of a breed is great.... but terminal sire .....nice to hear what people do to make there lambs nice and meaty :yum: :yum:
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feldar.....we have kept a couple of first hamp lleyn x to put back to hamp next year we figured after the success of this year they would give another excellent carcass :thumbsup:
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Yes that sounds like a good cross to me. We think the second crosses are better than the first cross, almost have bums like a Beltex!
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we are of course aware that a rare breed slower maturing gives an excellent flavour we feel; that the hampshire/lleyn x gave the best of both finishing well on good pasture good depth of flavour and meltingly soft texture we have yet to see the result of the suffolk/hamp x :yum:
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so what date do you put in your tup? im lambing out side so we wont put him in until Nov 5th for April 1st lambing
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For purebreeds he goes in in late July for Dec lambing, the commercial flock crosses etc he goes in 1st October for Feb/March lambing