The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: harry on September 17, 2011, 03:53:48 pm
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i want to pre order 2/3 kks...i want them castrated at day old.... i know nothing of this so what do i ask the breeder ...ie how its done etc so i know they know what they are doing... are there any problems with day old castration.
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Ours were done at 5 days old. They were fine and healed up really well. If you you tube piglet castration you will see how they do it. Obviously there are bids on there of the states and other places but there are ones on there of the UK :) Can't see an issue with asking for boars to be castrated before you have them.
P.s i always say this. I am a noob at pig keeping and know very little apart from my own experiences :P
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Just wondering why you want them castrated? We've never had KKs - always Tamworths, but we've never had them castrated and they've been fine. I've always just felt it was an unnecessary trauma.
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kunies cant be castrated by the cutting method that can be used on other pigs they have to be done by the vet there is a very good reason for this happy hippy would explain it
other pigs HAVE to be castrated by 4 days old day old is far to young to be castrating
you will have to pick up the extra cost of the vet doing the castration
rosemary castrating male piglets lets you run mixed groups without the risk of the gilts getting up the stick
also if it is from pedigree stock that you are buying there is no chance of you using that meat weaner as your planned stud boar it also allows you to take the pig to a higher weight without the meat tasting of boar or as some describe it pishy meat
further you do not want mature boars as pets not even kks :farmer:
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Just to clarify Robert's post.
You do not have to castrate pigs, but if you do then in England & Wales they must be done before 7 days if without anaesthetic and If over 7 days then vet required under anaesthetic.
Comes under the Mutilations (Permitted Procedures) (England) Regulations 2007, and the Mutilations (Permitted Procedures) (Wales) Regulations 2007, both under Schedule 3
1. Castration
The method used must not involve the tearing of tissues.
An anaesthetic and additional prolonged analgesia must be administered where the animal is aged 7 days or over.
Don't directly know which Scotish law covers, and it may well be 4 days there. Will try amnd track down if I get a mo.
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the reason i wanted castraited is that the 4 i have now will be killed at about 11 months....... i wanted some to grow on to 15+ months for more bacon and no boar taint................. is that correct thinking ?
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you want it harry you go for it :farmer:
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:wave: our kk boars we casterated using the usual cutting method no adverse reaction to it whatsoever.
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Robert, I have a Kune boar and the only problem I had with him was jumping up at me for food, I had trotter-shaped bruises all over my legs ;D I have taught him to sit and wait for his grub now as you would a boisterous dog. I've never kept a boar before and as you say they don't make good pets do you reckon he may become unfriendly later on? He's thirteen months old.
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You do not have to castrate pigs, but if you do then in England & Wales they must be done before 7 days if without anaesthetic and If over 7 days then vet required under anaesthetic.
So you can legally castrate a piglet by cutting without anaesthesia if it is younger than 7 days?
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You do not have to castrate pigs, but if you do then in England & Wales they must be done before 7 days if without anaesthetic and If over 7 days then vet required under anaesthetic.
So you can legally castrate a piglet by cutting without anaesthesia if it is younger than 7 days?
It doesn't hurt as long as you don't catch your thumbs between the bricks ;) :(D Sorry, shoulda posted this in Js&Fs)
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Robert, I have a Kune boar and the only problem I had with him was jumping up at me for food, I had trotter-shaped bruises all over my legs I have taught him to sit and wait for his grub now as you would a boisterous dog. I've never kept a boar before and as you say they don't make good pets do you reckon he may become unfriendly later on? He's thirteen months old
Sylvia, i have a full Kune boar too who is no trouble at all, like you can be a bit boisterous when it comes to food but would i leave my children in with him on their own, no im always wary of the tusks etc, as for his 6 month son (castrated) hes just a soppy little thing as soon as you touch him he is rolling over for tummy rubs!
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a good number of years ago we had kunnies (never again)
sally i will be keeping well out your road with your bricks
it is up to the individual if they have a full entire boar as a pet or a castrate would you keep an entire dog or cat as a pet or even a stallion it is YOUR CHOICE
rosemary it is a five day limit in Scotland
if only happy hippy were back on line she would answer all points raised i could but will leave it to Karen :farmer:
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rosemary it is a five day limit in Scotland
Five days, 7 days - doesn't it cause pain and distress?
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We just recently had the vet castrate three over-three-months-old bullocks for us. He used no anaesthetic and a very sharp scalpel. There was no evidence that it caused the bullocks any discomfort at all.
I've only seen it done once in pigs but it was exactly the same technique.
I think if you know what you are doing and use a very sharp scalpel to cut into the sacs there is very little if any pain. In fact I'd say the only distress is the general annoyance at being constrained while the procedure is done.
I did ask the vet whether he ever used anaesthetic and he said in his experience the giving of the local anaesthetic and waiting for it to take effect caused more distress - and was a lot more dangerous for him! - than just getting on with the job. (He does use local anaesthetic for removing horns, by the way.)
I wish they were allowed to castrate dogs and cats the same way - all the preparation for and recovery from general anaesthesia is unpleasant for the animal. Many years ago the vets used to castrate cats by stuffing them head-first into a welly. Cut, pull, puff of antibiotic powder, release cat, all done, took less than 2 minutes start to finish.
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the biggest problem with castrating anything is the cross legged effect especially males and i am no different
pick up any pig and squeals like hell once the castration is done and back on its feet it is away playing or feeding do the same to a lamb or calve and they are in agony after the ring goes on so what one is less agony for the animal
our old vet done the same as Sally's vet and even with anesthetic for dehorning the cattle still writhe and bawl in agony when they are getting the horns off
all these animal welfarists should actually see the above mentioned operations performed and not to sit spouting wisdom that they never had and never likely to get :farmer:
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the biggest problem with castrating anything is the cross legged effect especially males and i am no different
pick up any pig and squeals like hell once the castration is done and back on its feet it is away playing or feeding do the same to a lamb or calve and they are in agony after the ring goes on so what one is less agony for the animal
our old vet done the same as Sally's vet and even with anesthetic for dehorning the cattle still writhe and bawl in agony when they are getting the horns off
all these animal welfarists should actually see the above mentioned operations performed and not to sit spouting wisdom that they never had and never likely to get :farmer:
I bow to your superior wisdom, so eloquently expressed. :)
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rosemary it is a five day limit in Scotland
Five days, 7 days - doesn't it cause pain and distress?
I'm baaaaaaack ;) :wave:
Really, honestly Rosemary - No, it doesn't.
I had always thought "barbaric, heartless proceedure - I'm never doing that" but having seen it expertly carried out by Lillian and having done ours, I can say, hand on heart, that it really doesn't seem to bother them - although this obviously depends on the care and skill shown by the person doing it, I've seen some horrendous stuff on youtube >:(
They actually make more noise getting picked up than they do during the 'proceedure'. For me, it means they can all run in family groups without the worry of unwanted pregnancies or any chance of taint (I know, I know - not everyone can smell it, you don't get it in rare breeds........but I can smell it, therefore this is the way I do it :-\)
On the subject of Kune Kune castration - pure bred Kunes can be more pronel to ingunal hernias than standard pigs. The standard castration has more chance of resulting in a hernia due to the width of the ingunal canal. We took our first litter to be castrated at 6 weeks old - the vet (despite orders otherwise ::) they always know best >:()) performed standard castrations - at 6 weeks and with no anesthetic, my poor babies ! - and guess what - we had an emergency hernia repair op to deal with. Needless to say, we no longer use that vet, preferring to use one who does listen to their punters ;) and the piglets have a closed castration under anesthetic around 6 weeks old. If I was running Kunes on for meat though (all boars with no gilts beside them) I wouldn't be looking for them to be castrated - it can stunt their growth too much sometimes. But for 'pet' Kunes a castrated boar is definately the way to go - no chance of any 'boarish' behaviour when it comes to food, toys, being boss etc.
HTH (and sorry for the mammoth reply, can you tell I've been missing you all !)
Karen x
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Thank you, Karen, for taking the time to explain what I needed to know - me not being an EXPERT pig farmer, just some idiot smallholder.
Good to have you back :wave:
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OOh Sally, I'll let you be the one to take the welly off,,,!
We started feeding a handsome feral tomcat and finaly got to stroke him , the intention was to catch and take him to the vet to be done, I managed to grab him by the scruff and lift him, at which point he twisted and shreaded my hand and arm with teeth, claws and what must have been a chainsaw..........It will be a concrete welly next time I catch him.
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rosemary i think you are doing yourself an injustice with your comment
i have had the missfortune of meeting a lot of EXPERTS yes they are experts because they have never been shown a better way to perform there tasks :farmer:
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I always remember my mum castrating piglets then throwing the testicles to the dogs (they would line up for them)
We laughed at a young farm worker who, when shown what to do, went very pale and said he didnt think he could do that, but after thinking about it I didnt think I could do it either !
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I wish they were allowed to castrate dogs and cats the same way - all the preparation for and recovery from general anaesthesia is unpleasant for the animal. Many years ago the vets used to castrate cats by stuffing them head-first into a welly. Cut, pull, puff of antibiotic powder, release cat, all done, took less than 2 minutes start to finish.
Many years ago they used to think that blood-letting was a cure-all for numerous conditions, many years ago people thought the world was flat, many years ago women weren't allowed to vote.......
Thankfully time moves on...
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Thank you, Karen, for taking the time to explain what I needed to know - me not being an EXPERT pig farmer, just some idiot smallholder.
Another idiot smallholder here :o, and qualified vet nurse, who thinks taking a scalpel blade to any animal with out analgesia definately hurts!
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[/quote]
Many years ago they used to think that blood-letting was a cure-all for numerous conditions, many years ago people thought the world was flat, many years ago women weren't allowed to vote.......
Thankfully time moves on...
[/quote] are yes the good old days, women can vote, :o WHAT AND WHO FOR?????????
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We don't routinely castrate but we did have some Mangalitzas done. Our vet did it at 2 weeks old and he said that in Scotland it is ok to do it without anaesthetic up to 1 month old. I have to say the piglets squealed far more when they were being held than when they were being cut, but as an anaesthetist by profession I would have liked to use a bit of local anaesthetic, for my sake if not for theirs
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Isn't it funny that the same people who think notching is wrong will quite happily castrate an animal with no anaesthetic. Try slicing your finger with a knife and tell me it doesn't hurt, but hey its only an animal. ???
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actuallly i did that, rubbed my finger on a megger sharp meat cleaver, didnt hurt a bit, but bled a lot. i attended an accident with a motor clylist laying on the road with a snapped leg, he didnt feel a thing.Human body piecing apparently doesnt hurt, ear tagging also. i suspect a blunt knife job may hurt but a sharp one probably not. Why isnt there a chemical castration thingy taken orally, there is for humans.
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Isn't it funny that the same people who think notching is wrong will quite happily castrate an animal with no anaesthetic. Try slicing your finger with a knife and tell me it doesn't hurt, but hey its only an animal. ???
Y'know, if you cut yourself with a really sharp scalpel it actually doesn't hurt a bit at the time.
I wish I could say I thought ear tagging didn't hurt. Done correctly it mostly doesn't hurt but sometimes it does, however careful you are. It does seem to be only a short sharp shock though.
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notching they squeal like mad and they get covered in blood once they are back on there feet they don't bother
tattooing they squeal like mad with not so much blood once they are back on there feet they don't bother
castrating they squeal like mad there is no blood once they are back on there feet they don't bother unlike lambs and calves that show signs of distress when they have the rubber band on there scrotum sack
scalpels are meant to be sharp to work effectively :farmer:
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i think ive lost the plot......... my question was how to properly castraite kks in the first week, can it be done with a rubber band?
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no
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Why isnt there a chemical castration thingy taken orally, there is for humans.
There is a temporary chemical castration implant available for dogs called suprelorin. The problem with using anything like this in farm animals would be drug residues in the meat.... although selectively feeding such meat to certain individuals does have some appeal....javascript:SmiliesDialog.insert('[6]');
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i think ive lost the plot......... my question was how to properly castraite kks in the first week, can it be done with a rubber band?
Pigs CANNOT be castrated in this way Harry. Unless you know how to repair a hernia and and have the facilities to do so I really wouldn't recommend castrating Kunes in the standard way pigs are done due to the high risk of inguinal hernias.
Usually KK's are castrated by a vet, under anesthetic and usually around 6-8 weeks old.
Hope that answers your question
Karen
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i will ask the vet how much £ssss but i would guess to much to be viable.
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Mine charges around £50 per piglet depending on how much anesthetic is used (depends on the weight) for meat pigs I certainly think it's unviable. I have castrated Kunes and entire Kunes and those which are castrated are certainly much smaller than those which are not (around 2/3 of the size) If you'll not be having any gilts around you've not got the same chance of taint anyway, so to be honest, I wouldn't bother too much about it.
Karen :wave:
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the reason i wanted castraited is that the 4 i have now will be killed at about 11 months....... i wanted some to grow on to 15+ months for more bacon and no boar taint................. is that correct thinking ?
evenup to 18 - 24 months for Parma Ham. This is around the best time to have them slaughtered. the meat has become mature without having all the hormones running around in the meat. I do all ours at day old, they hardley know what has hit them and they are much less trouble. Getting the vetto do them is coslty and having them done bigger by a vet is a nightmare. There is a consequence of losing them also.
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Blonde - is it Kune Kunes you have ? They're much more prone to herniating and shouldn't be done in the standard way. Would love to hear that you're castrating day old Kune Kunes without problems ;)
Karen x
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Blonde - is it Kune Kunes you have ? They're much more prone to herniating and shouldn't be done in the standard way. Would love to hear that you're castrating day old Kune Kunes without problems ;)
Karen x
We dont have Kune Kunes in this country and we are not allowed to import any thing that is pig either. Makes it difficult The gov. closed the doors back in 1992....so what is here is here and what is not is not allowed in. the gov is trying to keep out such things as Foot and Mouth, and Mad Cow Disease, PRRS and PCV2 etc.
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YEAH my question was about kunes only........ OK wont bother, to much £ssss and to much possible trouble, i will leave them alone, JOB DONE, thanks for info.........