The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Horses, ponies, donkeys & mules => Topic started by: SallyintNorth on September 04, 2011, 09:38:39 am
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I don't know why I never thought to ask on here before...
Our ponies are natives and live out most of the time. They are seen every day, handled most days, but are not groomed at all unless working, as they need their natural oils and so on to keep them weatherproof.
One of my ponies has developed a coil of tail hair all mingled with dung and so on which I have found no way of clearing. Gravity keeps it close to her so that when she raises her tail to pee or poo, whatever comes out still hits this coil, making it ever more dirty and impenetrable. It's more than an inch in diameter. I have soaked it in buckets of shampoo, washing-up liquid, all sorts, on several occasions, but can never get it completely clean and untangled, so it just builds up again.
My instinct is to cut it off and make a better job of keeping their tails clean. I think I will also need to trim tail hairs that trail in the mud, as come the wet wintry weather, the wet muddy bottoms keep the tails close to the body and the same will happen again.
You are not supposed to trim Dales and Fells' manes and tails at all, but this is a welfare issue to me so I am now just wanting to do what is right for them. Every time I mention scissors to my horsey friends up here I get, "Oh no, Sally, you CAN'T!" but no-one ever tells me what I should do.
Any ideas anyone? And please can someone tell my why I should never go near a mane or tail with a pair of scissors (or sheap shears come to that.)?
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Sorry if I am blunt but I see the same issues with Show bred Cocker Spaniels. I hate seeing them with huge mats under their ears and on their legs, and it isn't healthy for them. I advise owners to have them trimmed to just a short fringe.
If your ponies are not shown or on display at events cut it off! If they are shown then you need to clean their tails more often. But I can see the reasoning behind leaving their coats as is too.
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Your instincts are right, the welfare of the pony is your top concern and in this case that means removing the problem area and trimming the tail.
Normally these ponies are shown untrimmed as they are meant to look as natural as possible and with maximum mane and tail since as a breed this gave them lots of weather/fly protection out on the fells. But if it doesnt work for an individual pony, you are right to change the approach. After all with the tail in that state, the pony wont really be able to swish it very well to discourage flies(and the muck will encourage even more flies).
I would go in for the chop and I bet you feel relieved the minute you have done it. After that regular washing and brushing (just tail not coat) (hairspray very good and cheaper than mane and tail sprays) will keep it nice.
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I agree - chop chop.
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I can't make out if you are planning to cut the whole tail or a single piece underneath that is coiled and dirty?
Under no circumstances would I support removing the whole tail back to the dock - there are still loads of flies and biting insects about and dirty or not a tail is the only protection for the back half of the body, particularly the udder is at risk of infection if there is nothing to swish.. And then when the bad weather comes she'll have no protection to her hind end which is what is turned to the wind and rain because it is best protected..
If you have washed and rewashed the tail I am not sure why you can't get the dung out - it takes more than a couple of shampoos and most equine shampoos are for showing and focus on shine rather than dungpower ;) I'd recommend fairy liquid neat on your hands to rub the dungy areas til they're soft and can be picked out. Then a tub of soft soap (Clydesdale guys swear by this stuff!) from your local agri merchant. By all means some hair may have to come away but not all of it. And after every wash run pig oil through the tail as this helps coat it against further dunging and keep detangled for tail rubbers.. I have washed the tail of an elderly mare who had a bout of bad scours that was left unwashed for a few days because the owner had young puppies in the house and was wary of taking the chlostridial infection indoors, it took me 3 hours but the job was done.. With serious cases such as you describe it may take 2-3 sessions over a week of 3 hours each time but pig oil in between will help preserve the progress and you will get there ;)
I'd also look at the causes - yes it's a vicious circle now but did/does she have a GI problem which led to scouring and started this off? Does she have arthritis or any other form of bone damage that might result in her not being able to lift the tail sufficiently? In which case maybe she needs supplementation to resolve the problem so it doesn't recur so badly..
I remember a stallion many years ago who had damaged his tailbone during a fall and couldn't lift the tail enough - he started with a dungy tail and started to suffer colicky symptoms as the pain led to less lifting and the dung started compacting.. Not scaremongering but worth checking if she is sore anywhere in the back or back end as a precaution.
I hear what others are saying, I also think it can be done and is worth doing without removing any significant portion of the tail. If you're talking a single matted bit it may be easier but regrowing stubble can cause irritation inside the dock and hind leg soft skinned areas and although it's just my opinion, I'd keep removal as a very last resort in cases where the dock itself is broken or damaged to a point it's unable to lift..
Oh and the way with your advisers on the "no you shouldn't" bench is to rope them in to help you get the tail washed out and sorted ;) I'd volunteer but you might be a bit far for a daytrip and it's a long ride home with ponydung smell lingering all around you ;D
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Of course I am wanting to hear 'chop, chop' because the job is done and done quick (so thanks Rosemary!)
ellied thanks for answering so comprehensively and for telling me why I should not just 'chop, chop' if there is an alternative.
I can't make out if you are planning to cut the whole tail or a single piece underneath that is coiled and dirty?
It is just one main dirty compacted coil, about an inch in diameter and maybe one or two smaller dirty coils about half-an-inch in diameter. Not the whole tail or anywhere near it, no. She's a Fell so she has a lot of tail, both in volume and length.
Oh and the way with your advisers on the "no you shouldn't" bench is to rope them in to help you get the tail washed out and sorted ;) I'd volunteer but you might be a bit far for a daytrip and it's a long ride home with ponydung smell lingering all around you ;D
I would so take you up on your offer - and of course offer you accommodation so you don't have to do the whole trip and back in one day! ;D
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One of the things I have found is that there are plenty of people to 'advise' you and help you choose your pony, full of how they will help you (now they've 'encouraged' you to get an unbroken 3-year old for your first pony when you were wanting to get a 10-year old schoolmaster...) but although they are always willing to come for the odd hour or two (and I am very grateful for that, don't get me wrong), the sustained support that a novice horse-owner needs vapourises the instant the going gets rough. (Which is not a problem, people have their own lives - but then they should have let me buy the mature gelding I wanted and not semi-forced me into buying a beautiful young mare who deserved a better owner than me!)
Never mind, now I have Floss and I absolutely adore her and look forward to doing more with her as I get more experienced myself - and I bought the mature gelding a year later anyway, hoping he could help me fathom how to ride these boggy moors before I set off on my green filly... I wouldn't be without either of them now and have had a lot of lovely times and a few scares on Davy, and now my lovely steady (though still occasionally nervous) boy can help me teach BH at last to ride out...
Anyway, back to the question.
I'd also look at the causes - yes it's a vicious circle now but did/does she have a GI problem which led to scouring and started this off? Does she have arthritis or any other form of bone damage that might result in her not being able to lift the tail sufficiently? In which case maybe she needs supplementation to resolve the problem so it doesn't recur so badly..
I really don't think there's been a medical problem, I think it's happened because of her long flowing tail and the muddy ground; the end of the tail trails in the mud, in icy / snowy weather gets heavy with icicles at the end making it worse, the weight of the mud and ice and/or it gets stood on stops it being lifted clear when she tries. Being a novice horse owner I failed to notice at the beginning and now she has this long heavy rope and its own weight now prevents it lifting clear.
I have used almost neat Fairy and several sessions over a week and did make some progress, clearing all the thinner coils and reducing the main coil, but I never was able to get the main coil completely clear so it all happens again. So I will get some of the soft soap and the pig oil, do what I can and snip what I can't clean up. I think I won't need to shave the portion that won't unmatt, the top few inches aren't matted, and I won't chop it all at one length I'll make several cuts at slightly different lengths, which should mean she doesn't get irritated or chafed by the shorter hairs.
Thanks again, everyone.
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Plumseverywhere does an animal soap that is really good and removed some very matted mud and yucky from my boys mane after a particularly wet spell (and of course he just has to roll in the mud). As for the tail I like to keep a horses tail about 4 inches above the ground level. I twist the tail then chop roughly into it which gives a more natural look and very rarely cut manes even on my TB as I don't like the look when done.
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It is most likely that the lump in question is made up from poo that has collected on the tail itself together with loose hair that has naturally shed from the tail. It needs removing.
Have to hand;
Scissors, a sturdy comb (my Shetlands tail is coarse so I use one for humans with wide teeth) or firm hairbrush, conditioner (either pour on or spray on sheen type). Plus a bucket of warm water.
Very carefully cut away the mucky lump in question - being careful so you only cut the hair - then put the conditioner on all of the tail. From the bottom of the tail working upwards start to comb the tail. This clip shows what I mean:
http://www.ehow.com/video_2350180_comb-horses-tail.html (http://www.ehow.com/video_2350180_comb-horses-tail.html)
All the loose hair will come away in the comb - this is what is forming the knots that poo will catch in. If it was me I would first trim the tail at the bottom (either swish or bang style, swish is more natural and would be my choice). This will help make the job easier and tidy the tail up. Although natural the tail does sound too long - if you need me to explain how to cut swish style let me know.
Once combed you can rinse/wash the tail as preferred. If the tail has any soap left in from previous attempts it might itch so is best removed.
The tail will come good and if you are careful the trim won't notice too much.
Hope this helps.
:horse:
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........a sturdy comb (my Shetlands tail is coarse so I use one for humans with wide teeth).........
;D That is, a wide toothed comb - not a comb for humans who have wide teeth.......... ;D :D ;D
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daughters fell pony's tail was in some state when we 1st got her every day i would do a bit she wasn't handled much i was bitten kicked etc now she loves getting groomed i find baby oil is great for tangles in the mane tails mane is soo soft too i had to cut some of the lumps out which i hated doing her tail is looking great now going to try pigs oil when i can afford it doing things on my land new fences etc lol they say pigs oil is great for mane tails i'm hoping it will make my gypsy cobs mane grow longer :horse:
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Ah, now I'm getting some really good input, thanks everyone.
I have bought pig oil and soft soap this morning :££££: :o
if you need me to explain how to cut swish style let me know
Yes please - unless that's what ellisr has already described above?
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Ok. I was taught this at Agricultural Collage and have done it so many times I can't count them - will try to explain it best I can.
Stand in usual position for grooming tail with left or right shoulder next to horses flanks (e.g. if you cut with your right hand, left shoulder should be next to horse). Lift the tail and put your nearest arm under tail at tails highest point (i.e. so your arm is right under tail against it's bum). This will lift the tail into it's natural postion as carried by the horse when moving. With your free arm run your hand down the tail with your fingers around the tail. When about 12" from the bottom hold the tail firmly in position, swap it into the opposite (none scissor) hand and then make your cut; for a banged tail cut straight across - for a swish tail hold the scissors and cut UPWARDS into the tail. If you wish to remove (for example) 8" of tail from the bottom then make sure the scissors make their actual cut 8" from the bottom of the tail. When the tail is released and combed again the cut should look natural - if you need to tidy up any missed strands then use your judgement to do so.
By cutting this way some tail hair is cut, some is missed, this is what retains the natural look. If you need to shorten the actual length of the tail say by about 4" than cut using the Bang method first.
Don't cut too much at once, you can always cut more off but you can't put it back on, so for example, if you wanted to take take 8" off, try 4" first as a practice run.
This same cutting method is used for trimming a natural looking mane instead of pulling, but again, be VERY careful with the scissors, horses do not always stand still so be very careful not to catch the horses neck.
Hope this reads ok - any questions please ask.
:horse:
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Thanks very much for that OhLaLa, I will do a test cut once I have the tail cleaned up and report back (no doubt with questions!)
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Just remember it will all grow back so even if you cut off more than you meant to it isn't the end of the earth. My Dales live out all year so like yours don't get much in the way of grooming, I do take the scissors to the tails when they start to get so long that they are in danger of standing on them when they step back and to keep them out of the worst of the mud over winter I use the twist and chop method.
Good luck with the washing and chopping :wave: (http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/figuren/k030.gif)
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I had this with a sec d colt last year. I put baby oil on it over a few days and it all sort of came off :) i did have to comb and wash it towards the end and a lot came off that had matted up. I didn't cut any apart to trim the bottom. You can get cheap baby oil from tesco or boots and it leave a lovely shine.
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poundland does it i like their peg holders i put my brushes in it and maizie my gypsy can stand on it doesn't break asda are doing their plastic tubbs £2 great for feeding buckets havn't seen the medium por large sizes in yet :horse:
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speaking from experience (i used to have dreadlocks down to my arse ) if you want to detangle a lock the best thing i know of is the cheapest BIG bottle of hair conditioner you can find and a table fork .
slather the conditioner all over the lock and squish it in as much as possible, then use the fork starting at the bottom to tease the matting out. it really does work, my locks were 3.5 years old and they came out leaving me with my normal hair.
well they would have done, cept i got bored after the first 6 and shaved my head But it can be done
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i just use good old canter spray for everyday use and it seems to stay in a good week. and a hairbrush (big paddle brush by nicky clark/boots) which has lasted years. start at bottom and work your way up. :wave:
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How you getting on with the tail Sally?
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Hi
i have a Dales pony, who has a full tail, he has only once had a problem with his tail getting matted up and that was due to a large branch that got tangled up and i literally had to rip it out as it was that stuck. i then pulled the hair apart bit by bit. also i dont use a comb on his tail, just an ordinary large headed hairbrush. I only brush through his tail once or twice a year.
i know it doesnt look good but if its as bad as you say then just cut it off. if its close to skin where its tangled up then it will be pulling at the skin underneath.
good luck
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How you getting on with the tail Sally?
:-[ to say I haven't done the full cleanup on it yet but will have to soon as the wetter winter weather heads in. She isn't too bad with it at the moment but it will get worse as the mud gets deeper and more sticky, so I want to get it sorted and trimmed ready for winter in the next couple of weeks.
My excuse is that all the stables are either out of action or being used by other animals, but it's a feeble one and I know it. However, the cattle shed will be back onstream very shortly, so then I can have a box to park her in while I work on it.
I've got this thread bookmarked to look up all the instructions once I've got her home and ready to start!
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once her tail is all clean and tangle free you can spray it with polish and that should keep the dirt from embedding in it for a while. Only spray the polish on the tail itself, like you would with a mane and tail product, and brush it through. I learnt this from one of my colleagues who pointed out the polish was cheaper than mane and tail and did a great job. If your horse is a bit worried by the sound of an aerosol around it you can spray it onto a dandy brush and then work it through the tail that way ;D
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you might also try to plait the tail once you've cleaned it up as that will also help it to stay a bit cleaner going forward. pooh can be picked off more easily as well
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you might also try to plait the tail once you've cleaned it up as that will also help it to stay a bit cleaner going forward. pooh can be picked off more easily as well
That's a good idea :thumbsup: And it'll be nice and crinkly when you unplait it ;D
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not really a horse person, but know a bit about oils etc. being an aromatherapy teacher. Personally I wouldn't use baby oil on anything not even a baby!! it is a mineral oil a by product of the petrochemical industries, it is not absorbed into either the hair or skin but sits on the surface collecting more dirt and grime, normal veg oil or sunflower oil will do the same thing if you put it on and then shampoo off the next day it will help to loosen things. but remember to put shampoo on first before you go near it with water or it won't come out as the oil and water won't mix
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our long haired gsd gets her belly and tail trimmed right back as shes out in muck alday. doesnt look gud but she doesnt care and much healthier for her.
not a pony but welfare comes first.
with ponies i use canter spray after washing and b4 brushing. and keep the tails a bit shorter in winter so they dont get stood in when mud is deep.
some ponies are more prone to twisting and knotting than others.
when i was younger and working in pony yards, our boss was so strict we had to tie up their tails when hacking out etc so no mud got in it!
wer are more laid back here!