The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Horses, ponies, donkeys & mules => Topic started by: egglady on August 30, 2011, 07:41:16 pm
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someone has offered me their shetland mare (14 yo), says she's had her since she was a child and just wants a nice home for her....sounds ok....then she tells me she has no passport......if i pay for one then i can have the pony f.o.c.
thoughts?
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Don't know the answer to the question, but does it have a vet history - I'd ask the Vet's name so I could check back.
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Thats a good idea - without it theres no way of knowing if the pony is stolen. Im sure it's not and theyve just not applied for a PP.
The other thing you could ask to see is historic photos of the pony.
Personally I would make them apply for the PP and reimburse the money for it (if you are happy to) once you see it issued. That way if any qs are asked it's their problem
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I agree with lachlanandmarcus
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good point lachlanandmarcus....think I'll go down that route :)
and yes annie, she does have a vet history - only for routine stuf though
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good point lachlanandmarcus....think I'll go down that route :)
and yes annie, she does have a vet history - only for routine stuf though
What about reason for passing her on without payment - is it genuine?
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No you are no 'being done', why would you think that, a few quid for a passport isn't expensive compared to the price of a pony.
The thing is, animals that are passed around for free are more likely to end up being just that - passed on, or taken by unscrupulous people who try to make a quick dollar. I've heard so many times of people saying yes I'll take it when a horse (or other animal) is free but if the subject of money comes up they go quiet.
I think it reasonable that you pay for the passport, and I go along with the suggestion that the current owner applies/pays for it and then you reimburse her in full and take the pony once the paperwork has arrived.
I hope it all works out well.
:horse:
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even more simple you can't own the pony without one. or move her. don't forget the chipping as well. if she is a full shetland your looking at some silly prices for passporting her with the stud book. i would be worried about her history that she was not registered as a foal. i would suggest regestering with another passporting authority. but then any foals won't be registered shetlands.
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Ah yes - no mention has been made as to whether the pony is chipped or not, but it is likely that if the pony was with it's current owner before chipping came into force (which it sounds like she has) than egglady will probably be asked by the seller to pay for that too.
The prices of these things can be found out in advance (a trip to a vet should do it or online; links below) then egglady can decide if she wants to proceed.
My Shetland came with full Stud paperwork way before the days of chipping so this pony may already have that, just not a passport/microchip as per the current regs.
This link has info and appx costs re microchipping:
http://www.minstervets.co.uk/microchipping_in_horses.html (http://www.minstervets.co.uk/microchipping_in_horses.html)
And this link tells you practically everything you need to know re applying for a horse passport inc prices (£17.50 and just one day to process, that can't be bad):
http://www.horsepassportagency.co.uk (http://www.horsepassportagency.co.uk)
It's still cheap compared to the price of a pony. Let us know how it all goes egglady.
:horse:
PS: Here is another link, HORSE PASSPORTS: GUIDANCE FOR ALL HORSE OWNERS- HORSE PASSPORTS (SCOTLAND) REGULATIONS:
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/05/31111522/15241 (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/05/31111522/15241)
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Simple, no horse or pony can move to a new owner or be put out on loan without its passport its the law.
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lets hope its stud book registered as its 150 quid for regestring plus 45 for the passport then the chipping. as said if just going to be a companion then avoid the stud book and go for whatever is the cheapest option. you do just have to treat it as an expense and it should be down to the new keeper to pay for the passport and chip after all your getting it for free. it would give you chance to get your own vet to check her out at the same time.
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i have a shetland 32 yrs old she doesn't have a passport never knew i needed one until i got maizie i was done with her passport i paid for it and then had to get it put in my name i didn't know you had to have a passport and that her last owner paid for it once burnt never again ask your local vet about getting her passported don't think its too much i paid £50 FOR MAIZIE AND I GOT HER MICROCHIPPED MYSELF THE LAW HAS CHANGED SINCE I GOT MAIZIE YOU NEED A MICROCHIPP N PASSPORT oops sorry about caps lol i had the vet out on monday and they didn't ask about her passport he was amazed how well she is doing and her condition same with my other shetlands they are 20yrs old
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You can't transport them without a passport though. Unless they're feral ponies and are destained for meat or it is a genuine rescue. I'd be a bit concerned if it was me.
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When passports were first introduced it was a bit chaotic and nobody really knew if they needed them for older ponies so many didn't bother. Some breed societies introduced them for registering foals and offered optional ones for older ponies, ditto re microchips, and I know plenty older ponies who were never planned to be rehomed never got them as they don't need them unless transported or sold..
I wouldn't be worried about whether the pony was genuinely owned by the person - if stolen she'd be more likely to want to sell her than give her away ::) so if you like the pony and she suits you and has no ongoing lami or other conditions (only having routine vet history suggests good health so you can check visually and make your mind up which you'd want to do anyway as shetlands aren't all the same despite appearances ;) )
If the Shetland breed society are extortionate to issue a passport go for the cheapest general purpose one, be it BHS, BDS, she could even be a sports horse ;) I understood you could get them for about £10 so it isn't that much for a free pony and she won't eat much ::) Just make sure she's a nice personality and you like her, and if so then that'd be good enough for me anyway..
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Is it the law that all ponies must be microchipped? Mine have passports and Smokey's freezebranded but neither have chips.
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Is it the law that all ponies must be microchipped? Mine have passports and Smokey's freezebranded but neither have chips.
The website linked below lists the regulations and says:
"European Commission Decision 504/2008/EEC that applies throughout the European Union require all horses (which includes ponies, donkeys and other equidae) will be required to have a passport and from 1 July 2009 all new passport applications the animal must be microchipped".
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/farmingrural/Agriculture/animal-welfare/IDtraceability/horses/regulations (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/farmingrural/Agriculture/animal-welfare/IDtraceability/horses/regulations)
So reading that, it looks like microchips are needed for all new passport applications.
There is a brief owners guide, which can be downloaded too:
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/farmingrural/Agriculture/animal-welfare/IDtraceability/horses/guidance/briefownerguide (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/farmingrural/Agriculture/animal-welfare/IDtraceability/horses/guidance/briefownerguide)
Hope this helps.
:horse:
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a couple of years ago microchipping was needed as well as passports only foals born think it was 2009 older ponies don't need to be microchipped as i said my old ponies aren't passportecand as i plan not to sell them my vet knows they don't have passports and he wasn't bothered i have the sports horse phone number my gypsy is registered with them but a vet will come out and do the passport don't think you will need a microchip tho ask ur local vet for advice if u want the scottish sports horse 1st june 2009 all equines born/registered after this date need to be microchipped just looked maizies passport and it has a compliment slip with it in her passport
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all horses and ponies must, by law, have a passprt and most certainly cant be moved without one.
however, things are not always what they seem...turns out this wee lass (a SHETLAND if you remember!!) is probably in foal to a 15hh coloured cob.........let's hope that the poor wee lass doesn't have too enormous a foal to push out in a few months :(
apparently said owner "didnt think a 2yo colt knew what to do yet"..........
erm, i dont think I'll be rushing to take that potential problem on........
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its lucky the poor girl is still alive. not something to be eager to take on. thou it would be best to get her away from that owner. our little colt has been mounting the girls from a couple of weeks old. at two he would have been fully working. hopefully she should cope maybe worth speaking to an equine vet. just in case but don't give up you coould end up with a very sturdy chiildrens riding pony.
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I have a friend in Shetland who has a Highland cross Shetland. She put her mare somewhere and their Highland colt got to her first. The outcome was a lovely pony who is now in her teens and brought joy to lots of children who have had the pony on loan.
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would this be her first foal i would be very bothered: if she has been foaling over the years it should be safer but its still a very big horse to be in foal to. just thinking you could end up with a full sized horse with a shetlands attitude to life. could be intresting. a bit of a fib saying that the was no health issues. what else has been missed.
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Where we used to live the local travellers had horses and I saw them (deliberately) putting a heavy coloured cob of 15hh+ to a tiny Welsh sec A mare (we were trying to ride our young just broken in horses down the adjacent bridleway at the time :-OO). So it's not always an accident!
In this case I would steer well clear, if it were me. I wouldnt want to acquire a horse from someone who knows so little about them that this could arise, it would make me wonder what sort of care they had in other respects (eg worming, vet care). And the bills if this pregnancy went wrong could be huge, quite apart from the trauma for you.
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before taking on this mare talk to your vet 15hh colt to a tiny mare doesn't sound good tho you can get a scan done to see if mare is in foal better to talk to a vet i would if it was me could cost you alot if its a difficult birth
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back to the passport thing.....i have 2 ponies and a horse here which don't belong to me. the horse is a 2yr old just here for her winter of turning away, and the ponies belong to someone else, on permanent grazing here and i look after and ride one, though they are not on loan as such.
should i have all their passports here? or is it ok that their owners still have them?
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the owner. i think theres a bit to do if they are on permenant loan.
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thanks!
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back to the passport thing.....i have 2 ponies and a horse here which don't belong to me. the horse is a 2yr old just here for her winter of turning away, and the ponies belong to someone else, on permanent grazing here and i look after and ride one, though they are not on loan as such.
should i have all their passports here? or is it ok that their owners still have them?
I would def say you should have them, the 'keeper' is meant to have them, rather than the owner (tho in some cases thats the same person) and in the circums you describe I would say thats you for sure. Also they are needed for vaccination record updating and also you have to produce them within 4 hours if requested to do so, which wouldnt be possible if you cant get the owner over to yours within that period. I know owners like to hang onto them but if they are living with you for a period, the passports are meant to be there too. Our two horses were previously at livery and the passports had to be held by the YO.
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that makes sense, i didn't realise about the four hours to produce part, it could take me a couple of days to contact the owner of the ponies with his work schedule etc! the horse's owner i can get easily.
i best contact the owners and sort this out then