The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: shearling on August 22, 2011, 10:04:42 am

Title: Is it right
Post by: shearling on August 22, 2011, 10:04:42 am
I caught two people in my sheep filed last night helping themsleves to 'cob nuts' off the trees. They had climbed over my five bar gate (its padlocked). I need a new gate, as its got rather worn out/old and a local supplier said 'they have a legal right to collect the nuts, the smae is true for mushrooms'. I live in England and the land is private and with no 'rights of way' on it. surly this cannot be true and if it is then it is not right! Re mushrooms what about truffles - should I be lucky enough?
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: plumseverywhere on August 22, 2011, 10:12:53 am
That can't be right, surely?! I think if you have overhanging tree's that go onto public land they can pick off them but not to enter your land?
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: benkt on August 22, 2011, 10:33:27 am
http://www.wildmanwildfood.com/pages/foraging%20and%20the%20law.htm (http://www.wildmanwildfood.com/pages/foraging%20and%20the%20law.htm)
Has some interesting stuff. It seems to suggest that if the land is open under 'right to roam' laws then there is a specific prohibition on picking plants or produce from a plant, whereas on 'normal farmland' it appears produce 'growing wild' may be picked by anyone (but they are still tresspassing, just not stealing). Weird.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: bloomer on August 22, 2011, 10:45:47 am

and trespass is a civil offence only they can only be held liable for any damage they do!!!
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: HappyHippy on August 22, 2011, 10:49:31 am
In Scotland there is the 'Open Access Code' which gives people the right to go pretty much anywhere  ::) Obviously not gardens or buildings and outbuildings but I can't stop anyone from going onto our land, into our fields or forrests or even into the paddocks with the pigs  >:( unless I can prove that doing so would be either dangerous to them or detrimental to land or stock - it's mental !  ::)
We do have a public right of way which runs up our track, which makes it even more of a nightmare tbh as we have people who walk or ride up and just go wherever the mood takes them  :-\ Despite signs saying there is machinery operating, shooting in progress, the rearing of game birds etc etc we still find rubbish, glass bottles, the remains of fires and picnics all over the place  >:(

Hope you get it sorted ! And good luck truffle hunting  ;) I think it's Beech trees and a certain type of oak that you find them under  ;) :wave:
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: shearling on August 22, 2011, 11:02:14 am
God this is mad, you poor things, I always wanted to live in Scotland -mind now changed. Why not gardens? then we could all be the same  ;D

In Scotland there is the 'Open Access Code' which gives people the right to go pretty much anywhere  ::) Obviously not gardens or buildings and outbuildings but I can't stop anyone from going onto our land, into our fields or forrests or even into the paddocks with the pigs  >:
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: sabrina on August 22, 2011, 11:09:45 am
We used to get a man jog over our land, caught him using the outside loo in our boiler house. My 18 hand horse Rembrandt decided to chase him for fun one day, he kept out of the fields after that. ;D
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: faith0504 on August 22, 2011, 11:20:44 am
My big mare is like Rembrandt, anyone fancies a walk in there field would get a really good game of tig,

I hope you get it sorted, let us know how you get on  :wave:
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: Fowgill Farm on August 22, 2011, 11:27:33 am
We have a public footpath thro our front field which means people can look straight thro our sitting room window ::) but since we put Angus the Aberdeen and 20 odd of his girlfriends in there we've had no walkers/ramblers etc, funny that innit?? ;D
Mandy  :pig:
Ps we do have an NFU warning sign on the stile into the field.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: shearling on August 22, 2011, 11:52:01 am
We rented a house with a bridal path that went right next to the kitchen and bathroom (only one and downstairs) windows. We had many a pleaent chat with folk passing by and no issues (although had to remind guests  ;D  ;D). The fields were hay and no animals around. We only have 6 sheep in the field as it is only a couple of acres. I would like to get a couple of shetland ponies at some stage, for carrage work, but for now have not got the dosh to buy them and worried about security given their size and temperment. Have sent son off to the filed to remove the tempation of nuts, although a bit young still, they will rippen up in the sun - by window and in hands reach  ;D  ;D. THey missed the damons, though I expect they will be back for the blackberries, which are just turning red. Looking st buying a 10ft by 6ft deer gate thats on sale locally and sow they pole volt that one  ;D  ;D.

Also, looking at making the hedge more secure - anyone any thoughts? have bought a berberis but its not that prickly, 'crown of thorns'?

 [/b]

We have a public footpath thro our front field which means people can look straight thro our sitting room window ::) but since we put Angus the Aberdeen and 20 odd of his girlfriends in there we've had no walkers/ramblers etc, funny that innit?? ;D
Mandy  :pig:
Ps we do have an NFU warning sign on the stile into the field.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: Fleecewife on August 22, 2011, 12:10:12 pm
Rosa Rugosa is great for making an impenetrable and very spikey hedge quite quickly, with the advantage that it also has flowers.  It also has rose hips aplenty which they could pick.  You can get them cheaply as whips or whatever from Buckingham nurseries - they soon form a dense thicket and grow to about 7 or 8 feet high, ie over 2 metres.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: HappyHippy on August 22, 2011, 12:13:26 pm
Hawthorn - it's hellish for prickles  ::)
Or if you want to go down the cullinary/alchoholic route - what about Blackthorn, then you'll get sloes  ;) But then, also maybe sloe pickers  :-\ :D
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: shearling on August 22, 2011, 12:13:37 pm
Brilliant, Thanks FW
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: shearling on August 22, 2011, 12:14:11 pm
Thanks too HH
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: Anke on August 22, 2011, 12:47:19 pm
From the other side of the story...

I pick blackberries, elderflowers, elderberries, hips etc and collect mushrooms (good atm for puffballs!), why not - no-one else is! They would just rot!

I wouldn't go into a field with cattle though, and probably stay clear of sheep fields too (don't really need to bring any nasties like scab or so with me...), but hedgerows next to arable fields and on pathways are free for everyone to pick - however not for commercial gain as far as I am aware.

I think the country access code for Scotland is a really good idea, we used to do some wild camping in the Highlands, some of the best times I ever had. The majority of people are considerate and know how to behave, and the small number who doesn't - well there are always some....
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: shearling on August 22, 2011, 02:39:13 pm
From the other side of the story...

I pick blackberries, elderflowers, elderberries, hips etc and collect mushrooms (good atm for puffballs!), why not - no-one else is! They would just rot!

I wouldn't go into a field with cattle though, and probably stay clear of sheep fields too (don't really need to bring any nasties like scab or so with me...), but hedgerows next to arable fields and on pathways are free for everyone to pick - however not for commercial gain as far as I am aware.


I agree with picking wild things going to waste on general pathways and byways, my issue is that the only way into my field is by the gate. The side fencing is not penetrable or jumpable (yes even for a goat  ;D  ;D). The gate is old and the weight of grown people pushing down on it (its padlocked) has not helped its lifespan and I am now having to buy a replacement, that I cannot really afford but need to in order to ensure the sheep are secure. The 'wild' crops to us as just that crops to supplement our food supply. I do not think it fair that other people can come into my land (that I look after and pay for) and treat it as their own. I see it more as an extension to our garden - I would not dream of going into their garden and eating from the hedges in it. Some of the hedges may seem wild but we planted the cob trees and keep the elder, etc for our use.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: nails on August 22, 2011, 06:52:37 pm
Shearling have just PM'd you, but geese are fine in with sheep, my geese run all year with the ewes and in the spring the lambs, never had any bother and boy do they make a noise if anyone goes near them that they don't know!!!!!!
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: northfifeduckling on August 23, 2011, 03:24:07 pm
you could put a sign on your gate "Private Property - Keep out" or "Dangerous Dog" or "Mind the Bull"  ;D
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: shearling on August 23, 2011, 03:31:50 pm
We have put some apples, cob nuts and damsons outside the gate with a notice saying helpyourslef but please do not enter the field - we shall see. New big gate coming at the end of the week - weekend joy to install it  ::)
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: tizaala on August 23, 2011, 06:53:29 pm
Wild crops are free to anyone , unfortunately,  But trespass on it's own can't be done , it must be Trespass and Damage, technically just bending a blade of grass can be logged as Damage,
Just another case of too many laws and not enough justice.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: northfifeduckling on August 23, 2011, 07:03:16 pm
We have put some apples, cob nuts and damsons outside the gate with a notice saying helpyourslef   ::)

well that's generous! you could put an honesty box next to the produce and ask for a contribution, that might deter the thieves (or they steal the box and the moeny, of course...) :&>
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: waterhouse on August 23, 2011, 10:51:27 pm
"Beware Adders" is a good start assuming that "Live firing range" isn't credible.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 23, 2011, 11:06:51 pm
My favourite was,

Quote
Entering this field is free. 
The bull will charge you later.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: Fleecewife on August 23, 2011, 11:14:51 pm
My favourite was,

Quote
Entering this field is free. 
The bull will charge you later.

Love it  :D :D :wave:
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: Roxy on August 23, 2011, 11:16:44 pm
I am afraid I do have an issue with people coming on private land uninvited.  I would not dream of going in someones orchard, walking round and helping myself to their apples, so why should they come on my field and pick my blackberries etc??

Since the right to roam came in, we have had quite a few people think that includes our fields (it does not!).  If I catch them, I tell them politely they are on private land, direct them to the footpath and most apologise at this stage, and leave.  Some start to argue they can walk where they want ......one more polite asking them to leave, and then I tell em proper!!!!

Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: waterhouse on August 23, 2011, 11:40:37 pm
The access to our land is across a privately owned common.  People have the most extraordinarily bonkers ideas of what a common is.  A common problem is that people park on our access road (it's common so I can) or challenge my right to drive on it (I can have you prosecuted and that concrete track ripped up).  One old codger started going on about the Law of Property Act 1925 which he clearly hadn't read.   As it happens the LPA is now irrelevant to rights of way but before the CROW Act (for England) it would have rendered his parking illegal.

When I ask if I can park in their front driveway people don't see the connection.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: robert waddell on August 24, 2011, 08:40:04 am
as i see it there is the have nots and the haves        the have nots want everything and dont want to pay for it     unfortunately these bar stewards are the majority      the haves are the ones that own the land and preserve it and are a minority (there is a similarity with the riots and the have nots)
parked cars blocking an access      if you have something that can move it then move it forklift/tractor/jcb or anyother means
i also detest these forkers that spout the right to roam act worst piece of legislation ever concocted :farmer:
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 24, 2011, 09:00:21 am

i also detest these forkers that spout the right to roam act worst piece of legislation ever concocted :farmer:

There's no doubt that it is a very badly constructed and ill thought through piece of legislation.  (Can anyone name a well-constructed and well thought through piece of legislation from the last twenty years??)  For the accolade of the worst piece ever, I'm not sure I give it equal billing with the hunting act...
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: northfifeduckling on August 24, 2011, 09:19:17 am
well...I grew up abroad with unlimited right to roam and we went for mushrooms and brambles in the autumn in the forest. It would never have occurred to us and anyone I know to climb over a gate and take fruit off a tree or even take cobs from a maize field! That would have been stealing, simple as that. Common sense? Some folks are just chancers - and thieves :&>
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: doganjo on August 24, 2011, 09:26:46 am
I was brought up that way, too, Kerstin.  If there is a gate you don't go in unless you have permission.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: OhLaLa on August 24, 2011, 10:13:51 am
I would never go onto someones land without permission. When I was a kid we scrumped apples and boy were we in trouble when we got caught. I learnt my lesson. Picking wild fruit growing adjacent to a footpath is ok but going onto someones land to take it is not.

My last place had a public footpath alongside one field, separated by hedge. The one time I caught someone walking on my side of the hedge so I called her over and pointed out that she was on private land and there was a footpath. Her reply? "But it has got muddy puddles" (yes, she had wellies on).

Next, I put new gates on to show that the field was in use (neighbours sheep and my horses) and not abandoned. I chained the gates shut for security, but then my NEIGHBOUR undid the gates by lifting them off the hinges (old bag) and left them wide open, so I chained the hinge side up too and chucked her sheep off my land (it wasn't the first time she had proved to be a pain in the ass).

Quote
Entering this field is free. 
The bull will charge you later.

I love this, I'd put that sign up regardless of having any stock in there!
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: waterhouse on August 24, 2011, 03:49:38 pm
For the accolade of the worst piece ever, I'm not sure I give it equal billing with the hunting act...

Depends on your point of view.  As a way of stopping hunting it has lots of loopholes and is hard to enforce, especially by a hard pressed police force with only one landrover in the county (which is operated by a rural special constable whose full-time job is as a gamekeeper).  Around here the hunt has more subscribers and a way higher turnout than before the ban.  But then no-one else can offer the surreal experience flushing the coverts alongside Luton airport with a backdrop of Easyjet 737s landing 200m away.
Title: Re: Is it right
Post by: shearling on August 24, 2011, 08:05:23 pm
WEll so far no obvious visitors and no helping from the offer. Maybe need to wait until Sunday