The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Dundonald hens on August 10, 2011, 08:38:58 pm
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Hi there folks can anyone help !
I have 2 lambs that are growing dail to go for the freezer I bought them as orphans and they do not have ear tags !!
First can i use the heard number of my pigs on there tags ? or dom i need to get a flock number ? and secondly what tags do i need to take them for slaughter
thanks
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They should have been tagged before you bought them. The person you got them from is at fault.
You will need to obtain a sheep flock number - you cannot use your pig herd number.
You will need to get a red electronic slaughter tag which must have your flock number on it. You also need to keep a flock record book listing exactly what sheep you have, and tracing all movements of ovines on and off your holding.
It MUST be a red tag.
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Thanks Is it the same proces as getting a herd number for the pigs ?
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You will need to get a red electronic slaughter tag which must have your flock number on it. It MUST be a red tag.
Errr... I think the elecronic slaughter tag is yellow. Red is a replacement isn't it?
And I am pretty sure that in England you are allowed to use a single non-electronic tag if you want as it's going off before it's 12 months old.
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Yep in england all you need is a red replacement non EID Tag - slaughter by 12 months.
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Yep in england all you need is a red replacement non EID Tag - slaughter by 12 months.
That would be great if I was in England but I am in Scotland and proud !!
SFS wheres my solar calcularor you promised me ??
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Technically although they have never had tags I think it should be a red tag for a replacement tag because they won't be on their holding of birth? And a single for slaughter instead of a double for breeding sheep?
I get so confused by all this. I have one show sheep with a single black tag because she is also id'd by bolus. And then I have several missing tags which should in due course be replaced by red ones if I ever get round to it - and then there were the ones I took away in my pocket because the weather was all wrong for tagging that I am finally going to sort out tomorrow when I have washed the Jacob ram. Why aren't there more than 24 hours in a day grrrrr
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Abso-bloomin-lutely. And I think you said you had 70 sheep, Fronhaul? That's not a small number, but if you multiply that up for all the sheep farmers and keepers in the country - that's a lot of frustration and irritation taking up time and energy that would be better spent on real work that would genuinely improve the welfare of the national flock.
I know, I know, it's the same old bleat that every occupation bleats about its regulatory burden - but it seemed topical just when we need all our police officers on the street ...
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It's best in such instances to contact your local trading standards officer - they know these things happen and are willing to help set it straight - don't see them as people who are trying to 'catch' you out. That way you have the correct advice from the authority and the best way forward.
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Would it be possible to go back to the person you bought the lambs from and ask for electronic tags for them? They should have supplied them for you when you got the animals. They will also have the appropriate applicator. In Scotland you need an electronic tag for slaughter before 12 months, but double tags beyond that time.
If you have to get your own red replacement tags you will need your flock number first because it goes on the tags - as you have a pig number it should be quick for them to issue the sheep one. You will also be issued with a pad of movement docs which you will need to take your animals to the slaughterhouse - can't move them without. (you should have got one for your records when you bought the lambs from the breeder) For us it's Hamilton and they are very friendly and helpful so just get on the phone to them. You will also be issued with a flock record book which you will need to backdate to cover when you bought the lambs.
Hope they're tasty :yum:
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Agree with fleecewife (nice to see you back fleece!).....maybe the people you bought them from could come and do it for you - each supplier of tags has their own applicator to do the job and there are quite a few different types (the applicator 'couples' the tag) and they don't do a different suppliers tags. Applicators cost around £10 give or take and if you order tags, make sure you get enough to do you a while, not just the amount you need, it works out cheaper that way. Our local farm supply shop does it all for us (we provided our smallholding number / our flock number etc) but you can probably do it a bit cheaper on line. Red tape eh.... ::)
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I would def ask the previous owners; they will know jolly well that every sheep needs a tag and they wont want the risk of a knock on the door. So it's in their interests to get things in order!
I can understand people getting the tags slightly wrong these days (with the complex system) but to not tag at all for sheep you are selling is a pretty poor show on their part.
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Technically although they have never had tags I think it should be a red tag for a replacement tag because they won't be on their holding of birth? And a single for slaughter instead of a double for breeding sheep?
Correct.
We ALL know that this whole tagging lark is a total farce, but at the end of the day, if someone is asking for advice, you have to give them the correct information.
A red replacement slaughter tag will cost very little - probably less hassle than chasing up the person the lamb came from. Its a good idea to have a flock number anyway.
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Anyone following the discussions that the NSA is having with HMG and the EU knows that this total farce is deadly serious. The legislation allows no provision for errors in tagging, so I'd get them looking legal ASAP.
You must also have a flock movements book which is downloadable from Defra. At least try to get the CPH number from the birth holding
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The more I think about this one the more I think you need official advice, if you can't get tags from the original breeder of your lambs. When you use replacement (red) tags, you have to cross-reference to their original numbers in your flock management book - and of course if you never had original tags for them you can't do that. Presumably the original breeder will never have put these lambs through his books so they would be untraceable (traceability is the whole point of the tagging system) if you can't get tags with his flock number on. So although it's a drag to chase him up, it's very much in his best interests to supply you with the correct tags. If not you need to contact your local office of SGRPID Scottish Gov Rural Payments and Inspection Dept - local offices are listed online. But try to get original tags first, so you are not the one doing things wrongly.
Technically although they have never had tags I think it should be a red tag for a replacement tag because they won't be on their holding of birth? And a single for slaughter instead of a double for breeding sheep?
Correct.
We ALL know that this whole tagging lark is a total farce, but at the end of the day, if someone is asking for advice, you have to give them the correct information.
A red replacement slaughter tag will cost very little - probably less hassle than chasing up the person the lamb came from. Its a good idea to have a flock number anyway.
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fleecewife is very correct in what she has said gone are the days when you can just do as you like no slaughter house will take your lambs without tags would you just not be better doing a home kill thats them finnished end of story no grief to you the original breeder or anybody else learn from your mistake and hopefully others will as well :farmer:
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I agree with ROBERT this would be the easiest way out of this problem. TAGS are only one part of the problem the paper trail is more important, i can see two ways both needing to speak to the original owners 1 if you got a movement document when you bought them but no tags then phone and get there flock numbers buy red tags put in lambs then cross ref in holding register. 2 if you got no document then the owner needs to supply tags and a movement document to transfer ownership, you then need to fax/email/send the white copy to samu with in 3 days keep the yellow copy in your records along with a copy of any invoice/receipt then record the movement in your holding register. :sheep: :sheep:
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...but the movement thingy is supposed to be despatched within 36 hours or something.
I'd be inclined to ring the scottish equivalent of trading standards anonymously and judge the attitude. If it's all getting a bit legal sounding I'd run for cover. But I bet this won't be the first time it's happened, and nothing has actually gone wrong.
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Be careful of some of the advice you are being given here. I would definately get onto your local officer, admit there has been an error and get the correct advice to sort it out (and their name too). Building up a good relationship with your area officer is a very positive thing to do - they know smallholders out there are making mistakes and they will help you set it right and it will be in your favour that you are trying to set the record straight. They're not the enemy.
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goosepimple may well be right - but do remember that by 'fessing up to the local officer you are also dobbing in the farmer who supplied the lambs without tags or movement papers in the first place. I would recommend going back to the farmer first and asking for his/her suggestions. Make it clear that you want to end up with everything above board and shipshape.
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I accept that this is Wales but I do have a good friend who used to work in this area so asked him what he would do. His response was that he would like first to think that everything that could be done had been done to resolve the situation without matters getting too "official". He would suggest firstly obtain a flock number. No need at this stage to admit the sheep are already there. While that is being allocated speak to the farmer concerned and see if a resolution can be reached that doesn't involve the local officer. If the farmer isn't willing to help then the time has come to be frank with the local office and seek their help in resolving the situation. The clear message he gives it that very few people at the local offices really want to get involved in enforcement action (there is always the odd exception) unless people are blatantly flouting the rules.
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...but the movement thingy is supposed to be despatched within 36 hours or something.
I'd be inclined to ring the scottish equivalent of trading standards anonymously and judge the attitude. If it's all getting a bit legal sounding I'd run for cover. But I bet this won't be the first time it's happened, and nothing has actually gone wrong.
[ /quote] IN an ideal world with in the three days but speaking to a friend who works at SAMU days/weeks/months late is common they would rather late than not at all