The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: nihicib2 on July 15, 2011, 08:32:55 am
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Hi all
We have five goats we keep for milking, all different breeds and two have horns, they run together in the field but are penned separately at night with the horned ones apart from the other three, yesterday morning when I went in one of the three had somehow gotten in with the the two horned ones and she was acting very strange, very unlike her usual self (quite bossy and a bit of a dont mess with me attitude). She was staring into space seemed unsteady on her feet and very disoriented. She ate a small amount of feed but last night and this morning she is still the same, its like she doesnt know where she is, she seems almost blind but cant be as she doesnt trip over anything when she walks. She has no marks or swelling on her and her temp is normal, the other two horned goats that she managed to get in with can be very violent to the others if they are in a confined space with them, so Im wondering could she have suffered brain damage from being basically battered by the two horned ones or could it be concussion? Not sure what our vet could do if we called him out, its very upsetting to see her like this as she is my favourite and she just stands there with a vacant lost look, any advice please?? :goat:
Brid
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SOrry to hear about you goat Brid :( Am no expert but I would call the vet I think, 'star gazing' could be a symptom of other conditions (thiamine deficiency, listeriosis...) and they could be treatable if caught in time. Especially as you can't find any marks from the horned goats on her, it could be worth a check x
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I definitely second that and urgently, really urgently.
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phoning vet now thanks would it mean that it could pass onto the others should I keep her apart from them
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If she's confused then a separate pen might be a good idea anyway. What did the vet say?
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Well he said as her temp is normal that its not listeriosis, he cant see her until half five so we have to wait until then, She seems comfortable enough with the others, the two nubians that are with her are gentle, she's just lying there staring at the wall but I have her covered with a blanket I'm just so annoyed at myself that I didn't get the vet sooner, I honestly thought she had concussion from the other two butting her :-[ is there anything I can do between now and the vet to make her more comfortable?
Thanks again
Brid
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Any update? I don't have goats but I erally like them, and couldn't help reading about this poor girl. Hope she's improving.
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Hope she is ok- there are some things that it could be disease wise, but none of them are especially good :-( I hope it's just been a knock.
Best wishes
Beth
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how is the goat? did the vet take bloods?
:bouquet:
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A thought for the future.Have you seen bucks fighting in the wild,they really throw their heads into it(pardon the pun)so concussion is not often the option. ;)
I do hope your goat is better
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Hi all, sorry for not getting back sooner, we had farmers market to bake for this morning, killed a pig during the week so we were doing some butchery and with Nora Bheag (wee Nora) being ill we're up to our eyes, took her to vet, he didn't take bloods, gave me a course of anti inflammatory injections and vitamin injections, also some glucose powder to mix with water to give to her because she was weak, she seems much perkier today and was eating hay this morning but still seems like she can't see properly, horrible rain all day so kept the others in with her and she kind of follows them around the stable, but the fact that she was up and about and eating gives me hope, the only worry is that I left it too late and she might have some sort of permanent damage, but time will tell, hopefully she will be ok, she's not the prettiest, biggest or most milk producing goat but she has an attitude that I love, as with all of ye the animals become part of the family and when one is ill its horrible, thanks for all the advice and the concern, I will keep ye updated on her progress :bouquet:
Brid :goat:
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have your goats been CAE tested?
Caprine arthritis encephalytis can manifest as wobbly, stargazey - ness....
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No they haven't, we have five milking goats and its just for ourselves, we don't have a herd number or anything for them, not really sure if you need to in Ireland, we have herd numbers for the cattle and pigs, I will ask the vet about it and maybe get them tested, I don't know much about it to be honest
???
Brid
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Listeria can cause the sort of symptoms you've described, including the blindness. They can get it from mouldy food, silage being the chief offender.
The website I just read says the cure is thiamine (vit B) injections and anti-inflammatories to reduce the pressure on the optic nerve. Sounds like your vet is doing the right things, if this is what it might be!
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High temperature is one symptom as the Vet said, but it is not infallible as I found out. I lost a goat to Listeria... she had got at a small amount of haylage with mould on it ( almost not possible to see it but tested positive) and her temperature stayed normal. Did a PM afterwards... proven Listeria.
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well she seems to be much better today, very lively and eating, in fact she nearly knocked me over looking for the biscuits I was feeding her yesterday, all other goats are fine, bit peed off that they cant get outside because of the horrible gales and rain, her sight is still not back, although she seems to be able to make out shapes and shadows, she can get to her hay rack and her feed and make her way around the other two goats so hopefully with the course of medicine she will be back to herself, so Im kinda assuming that it was the thiamine rather than listeria, quick question, what could I feed them in form of food or mineral lick etc that would stop this from happening in the future, we cant get goat feed around here, so at the moment Im feeding them a mixture of lamb crunchie (a course mix type of feed, dairy nuts and hay when they are in) I know its not feed for goats but like I said trying to get goat feed here would be impossible and this is the feed I was advised to give them. Any advice would be great thanks :bouquet:
Brid
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That's good to hear :)
I ordered mineral lick blocks for goats from Ascott smallholding supplies. They are the size of a large block of lard and hang up on the pen post in a special holder in the byre.
I'm sure the lamb crunchie is fine for them, by the way.
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My vet book suggests that thiamine deficiency/CCN can develop as a result of high concentrate feeding (rumen too acidic). One suggestion is to feed Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) to goats daily at 10g per goat to reduce the chances of acidosis developing.(But I am pretty certain that mine would not necessarily eat this much, as I think it tastes foul. You could put some into the drinking water though?) Reducing concentrate is also an obvious choice. Not sure this helps. Hope she is continuing to pick up.
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Lamb feed does not contain the right balance of minerals for a goat.... the cattle dairy nuts do.
A goat requires an almost identical amount of minerals/particularly copper as a cow. Some areas are very deficient in copper or have a very high molybdenum level which prevents the uptake of copper. The other thing that can cause major problems is a lack of Vitamin B complex. It can be given at regular intervals by injection... at least this way you KNOW the goats have their necessary amount.
Vitamin B in its many forms is essential for efficient nerve system, brain function, rumen function and of course cobalt intake (cattle feed) is vital for synthesing Vit B12... efficient gut function.
As your goat is now recovering, it suggests to me that your hay and feed may be lacking sufficient minerals for goats which may be compounded by a further lack in the grazing. Believe it or not, every area of UK has its own deficiencies which need correction. Are you in a peat area...this is deficient... get it checked by your local farming sales business... they will be able to test the soil and advice what you need to balance the feed with.
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We have no end of problems getting goat mix up here so I feed calf crunch and mineral licks. Seems to keep everything bubbling along nicely :)
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Skirza is it a goat lick you use? Unfortunately she went a bit down hill again today, had scour but that might be from the glucose, we gave her the vitamins and some antibiotics but if she is no better tomorrow I'm afraid I will call the vet and get his advice as to whether to put her to sleep, it's just not fair on her if she continues on like this, its horrible but I don't want her suffering
Brid :-[
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The scour is quite likely the glucose. Has she got good hay and plenty of water? Maybe a bite or two of ivy?
Longer term, access to a cattle lick would help if you can't find goat stuff. I have to control access to molassed ones though or they'd make themselves ill. The mineral ('salt') licks I have obviously arent so nice you eat them when you don't need them :)
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Well i'd like to thank everyone who gave me advice on Nora Bheag :bouquet:, unfortunately we had to help her on her way to goat heaven this evening, she picked up for a while last week and we hoped for the best but it wasn't to be, she was just a shell of her former, don't mess with me, self, like I said she wasn't the best looking or the most milk giving goat but she was cool, once again thanks all
:goat:
Brid
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So sorry, you did your best for her. :'( Did you find out what was wrong with her?
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So sorry to hear about Little Nora. We lost one of our milkers in a similar way (though much quicker) a few years back. I can cope with slaughtering meat animals, even Goat wethers, but you get so attatched to milkers and it's heard breaking when you lose them. Must admit that, though I'm a 6 foot Blacksmith and past 50 years old, I cried when we lost Cinnamon.
Dave
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I'm sorry to hear how it ended :-*
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oh that's so sad, i just caught up with this thread just now. poor lass, but you did the right thing i think, that's our responsibility as caring owners to take away their pain when we have to.
as an aside, i feed sheep feed to my goats and also offer them a mineral lick (for goats) with the added copper. would i be better changing to cow feed? and if so, what would i ask for at the feed merchants?
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Defo change to Dairy nuts.... most feed merchants/ farming co-ops have their 'own brand' which is perfectly good.
This way you are not relying on the goats taking minerals or using licks.
I have never in the last 35 years used anything else and my girls... all 30+... are very well on this diet.
The only word of caution... have your ground checked for mineral content... most feed merchants will do this with a soil sample and very often free/very cheaply. Contact them and they will tell you what is needed.
Most areas of UK are copper deficient but equally there are some spots which are OK. Usually feed manufacturers produce the correct balance for the area.
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Diary nuts are good, mine also get some rolled oats (which they love) and soaked sugarbeet shreds (soaked, so I can mix in their daily dose of caprivite and garlic - it doesn't taint the milk at all, but their breath does stink, it has banished all the vampires I have to say though...).
Change over sowly though from their current feed.
I find that one of my milkers starts to use her lick a lot when she is wormy...
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sleep well Nora Bheag, much loved goat :bouquet:
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Just again a big thanks to all who gave me advice about Nora Bheag, we never found out what happened her, our vet doesn't do autopsies, just glad we did everything we could for her.
So once again, go raibh míle maith agaibh (thanks all) :bouquet:
Bríd