The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: ambriel on July 10, 2011, 09:31:37 pm
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I've been looking for a bit more land to use for grazing our pigs and goats and have a chance of a very convenient acre right near to our place.
What sort of price should I offer/expect to pay?
It's about an acre in size and is currently not being used for anything at all.
It will need quite a bit of work to make it stock proof by way of fencing and repairs to dry stone dykes.
Any suggestions for what I should pay for a year's use of it?
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If you are fencing it and repairing the dykes then 1p sounds about right!! seriously, thats worth far more than a year's rent.
But if they are doing it, Im not sure as it depends on the area/soil/competition for small paddocks
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I haven't a clue really, but around here we pay £35/acre-ish for lots of 100 acres or so of rough grazing, for which we have to do all maintenance. It would need to be good grass and mowable to be more than £50/acre.
If renting is like buying, small plots cost proprotionately a lot more than large.
If you are fencing it and repairing the dykes then 1p sounds about right!! seriously, thats worth far more than a year's rent.
Hmmm ... depending on what they want to do with the land next year, if it will have had pigs and goats on it! If they want to cultivate it, pigs would be worth their weight in ... ;) but if they want it as pasture then probably the pigs would leave it needing reseeding (albeit on a well-fertilised topsoil.)
Hope that helps - even if only a little!
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Blimey! I was thinking a couple of hundred.
The field hasn't been used for anything in years and the owners have no intention of doing anything with it.
Most of it is surrounded by dry stone dykes but one side has stock fencing which looks like it need completely replacing, and there are a couple of gaps in the walls that'll need plugging.
I'll see what they say when I speak to thewm next.
Thanks folks!
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Bear in mind though the price of anything is only what someone is willing to pay for it ;)
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Those figures are presumably for the season? We had 22 acres in Aberdeenshrie and the lcoal farmer paid us £85 an acre for the period from early May to late October, then sometimes put in sheep over the winter to grass it down - for our benefit so she didn't pay for that. So we had a steady annual income of about £1850
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He's only allowed stock on it for up to 11 continuous months... something to do with ancient land farming/grazing rights, I'm not sure exactly it's something the solicitor put in the contract.
That's correct - even one day off the land is enough. If someone stays on the land for a full 365 days they can invoke a permanent rent or in some cases they can enforce ownership. I knew of a farmer in Aberdeenshire who did just that a number of eyars ago, and cheated an old lady out of ownership of the land surrounding her own cottage.
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I have heard the same happening, he gained land from two sources, it does make folk wray about renting land out, i would love to rent a wee bit more land off folk round us, but renting is a no no because they are scared there land will be pinched from them.
Good luck i hope it works out for you :wave:
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Thanks people, this is all very interesting stuff.
I agree, if I'm going to spend money fencing the field I'd want some guarantee of at least two or three years. Fair's fair. I wouldn't have a problem moving them off it for a month or so, it's literally just across the road, and they can come back onto existing land for that, no trouble.
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Can anyone provide a link to some legal basis for this fear of renting out land year round?
I'm a trustee of a charity that rents out about 10 acres of land to an allotment society and for livery. We rent year round and our legal advice was that even without a land registry title to the land (which we're in the process of getting anyway) a written rental agreement with the tenants would sufficiently protect our ownership.
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At the livery yard I used to be at, the owner rented a field from his brother and we had to take the horses off for a week or a month or something every year.
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Hi, im not sure Doganjo will probably know more, but i think it is a scottish thing, hope that helps a wee bit :wave:
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Sorry, my knowlege of law was accountancy based and from oatcakes years ago, so all I know is what we were told when we rented out our own fields.
Having said that we had horses on it for a complete year - diy livery, and they paid their rent in cash weekly. They were invariably late paying us, their kids ran riot round our kennels and got the dogs all wound up, they came into the house without asking - looking to 'play' with John (big softy loved kids, would have made a great Dad ;D), so after a year I put my foot down and asked them to leave. Very disappointed as I loved having the horses there to talk to.
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Having said that we had horses on it for a complete year - diy livery, and they paid their rent in cash weekly. They were invariably late paying us, their kids ran riot round our kennels and got the dogs all wound up, they came into the house without asking - looking to 'play' with John (big softy loved kids, would have made a great Dad ;D), so after a year I put my foot down and asked them to leave. Very disappointed as I loved having the horses there to talk to.
with hindsight? do u think u cud have prevented that scenario? did u manage on just farm insurance? thanx ;) :D
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With hindsight I'd have told my friend her horses could come, but not her friends ones. It was her her pal and her kids that caused the problems. We didn't take out any special insurance, and anyway they didn't do any damage. They certainly looked after their four horses well. Hindsight is the most wonderful thing out but not many of us have it unfortunately! ;D
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We used to let out about 6 acres for horse grazing on an 11 month basis for 500quid. The agreement was that they would top the weeds, keep the fencing in good order and rotate the grazing so that it didn't get destroyed. They didn't top it, didn't look after the fencing and didn't strip graze so the land became a weedy mess after 2 years. To cap it all I found out they were about to sub let it. We're now in the process of getting it back into good order still finding bits of horse rug and other crap. And there'es now ragwort here and there which there never was before. Result, goodbye horses.
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We used to let out about 6 acres for horse grazing on an 11 month basis for 500quid. The agreement was that they would top the weeds, keep the fencing in good order and rotate the grazing so that it didn't get destroyed. They didn't top it, didn't look after the fencing and didn't strip graze so the land became a weedy mess after 2 years. To cap it all I found out they were about to sub let it. We're now in the process of getting it back into good order still finding bits of horse rug and other crap. And there'es now ragwort here and there which there never was before. Result, goodbye horses.
was it grazed by sheep or cattle prior to horses? what do people do with horses during the 1 month its empty?
:wave:
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Well, the good news is the person who owns the land has said she's happy for me to use it, and what's more she doesn't want any money.
Personally I'd sooner pay her something as she's doing me a big favour. Maybe we'll agree for me to donate something to one of our local sports teams.
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id pay sumthing and get a contract so she cant boot u out when it turns to mud in the winter :o :o
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Well, the good news is the person who owns the land has said she's happy for me to use it, and what's more she doesn't want any money.
Personally I'd sooner pay her something as she's doing me a big favour. Maybe we'll agree for me to donate something to one of our local sports teams.
Didn't you say you would be using the land for pigs? I'm sure there'll be something with which you can return the favour... :yum:
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yes i agree with Sally, barter swap favours etc ;) ;)
Emma T
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Yes we already have a thriving barter system going locally. I think that's a splendid idea.