The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: yankieGirl on July 06, 2011, 07:04:06 pm
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Why do you have so many regs over there?
Is it due to the geographics of a small island? Disease spreads quickly and before long it's everywhere?
I am not trying to be snarky...just wondering.
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yes. yes. and stealth taxes.
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That, YankeeGirl, is a question the rest of us have been pondering for years :D
You might have a point about disease spreading quickly. But also we have a type of civil servant who just loves rules and obscure regulations. Maybe they're an abberation from our scholastic tradition? Anywhere else they'd have been left to starve or shot!
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it is just the way the EU works 2 people sit down and discuss something you have 2 opinions 20+ people sit down and discuss the same subject you have 20+ inputs and all want there contribution to the subject in America if you get food poisoning you sue the one responsible in Britain there is an army of people to prevent you getting food poisoning and regulations that must be adhered to :farmer:
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Do the regulators seek you out? Could a person just defy the regs? Are the penalties stiff?
I take perverse satisfaction in sticking it to the "man".... ie....the thrill of making moonshine in the garage!
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I understand regs on large scale operations.
I don't understand regs for the hobby farmer that gives her eggs away to family and friends and sells the pigs to a few neighbors. Yes, one person sick is not good...but there is such a thing as "buyer beware" when you are dealing with a limited # of people and they can come to your barn and see the conditions.
Just blabbing on in print...I'm not trying to start a war between the regulation adhereants and the folks just soldier ing on.
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I think anyone who wants to defy the regulations could do so :-\
I'm a real rebel too (tell me not to do something and just watch me go ;))
BUT although they may seem daft, too much hassle, too expensive to stick to, a pointless waste of time just to keep folks in government jobs (in some, but not all cases) ::) they are there for a reason. To keep us free from disease outbreaks (UK has big import/export markets that would be financially damaged by this) and to protect the public who buy and eat the pork produced.
In terms of penalties - I'm sure they could slap a major fine, a ban from keeping animals and I suppose they could (in theory) throw you in jail, but for me sticking to the regulations and best practice guidelines lets me get the absolute best from my pigs and minimises the chances of me being responsible for the next disease outbreak. I wouldn't want that to be my fault. :'( :'( :'(
Karen x
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that is another aspect to Britain in France the farmers stick together and sod the authorities in Britain the opposite is true everybody does there own thing now moonshine i could go that(the last American hero) :farmer:
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There are to many, I thought we were out the other side of Foot and Mouth and farmers trying to get some sort of respect back but the goverment seems addiment to hold everyone back, we import far to much which will breed disease as we type this, Lamb at present seem to hold a good value only because poor New Zealand has had so many bush fires, our lamb is georgious we as a small Ireland need to support our farmers not slap them with so many rules and paper work at one point I had pigs, sheep and cattle and the paper work was just silly. Sorry but I feel very strongly about this.
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In terms of penalties - I'm sure they could slap a major fine, a ban from keeping animals and I suppose they could (in theory) throw you in jail, but for me sticking to the regulations and best practice guidelines lets me get the absolute best from my pigs and minimises the chances of me being responsible for the next disease outbreak. I wouldn't want that to be my fault. :'( :'( :'(
I think it is the case that subsidy payments could be withheld or stopped for serious breaches. This is a pretty big stick to a farmer.
It's kind of got to the point where farmers only go along with the increasingly burdonsome, irksome and usually frankly utterly pointless (since it never ever actually addresses the original problem - and of course is never ever deregulated even when the original problem is no longer relevant) regulations because otherwise the subsidy payments could be stopped. For sure none of us would be electronically tagging our sheep if it weren't for that.
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If the government would just call a halt on the imports of "cheap" overseas meat, eggs, milk etc. I don't suppose these regs. would be needed. (but what do I know ::))
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after seeing a program about what you americans feed your pigs i suggest you look at your system before commenting on ours.
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I agree with shetland paul, if it wasn't for all the rules and regulations we wouldn't have the safest meat in the world. You can't get away from the fact that our animals are reared and slaughtered in the best conditions possible and it's something we should be proud of. Yes the Brits love nothing more than rules and regs but if the end product is worth it surely that is good.
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I understand regs on large scale operations.
I don't understand regs for the hobby farmer that gives her eggs away to family and friends and sells the pigs to a few neighbors. Yes, one person sick is not good...but there is such a thing as "buyer beware" when you are dealing with a limited # of people and they can come to your barn and see the conditions.
Just blabbing on in print...I'm not trying to start a war between the regulation adhereants and the folks just soldier ing on.
shetlandpaul: As noted above, I am specifically asking about regs for folks with backyard or hobby farms. You don't need to school me on the conditions of our meat producing factories. I'm already very much aware of the conditions.
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the same regs apply to both although some backyard setups are not on the radar :(
to an outsider the rules seem very strict once you are involved with them (the regs) it is just a mater of course or good practise in the same way seat belts are law and helmets on bikes are in your best interest
it also gives satisfaction when jobsworth comes to visit and you have no advisories or recommendations to carry out :farmer:
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Shetland Paul I think your comments about backyard or hobby farmers is out of order not everybody has the luxury of acres and acres of land or have a proper working farm, people that can afford a house with a little land on it should not be looked down noses at. 9 times out of 10 these days the farms are played at by townies as they are the only ones that can afford to run it , or it has been handed down the family line.
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reread my post. were do i mention hobby farming. If a pig is kept well and fed well by a hobby farmer then it does not matter. what i commented on was the amercian swill production. if you had seen it you would have been amazed that they have not been wiped out by F&M. The rules are there to protect our animals even if they have gone over the top. I worry also when someone is asking how do we get around the rules. Why would you want to.
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i can see this topic being locked the same as the forfar market one
it was yankie girl that mentioned backyard or hobby farms not Shetland Paul
the regs are there for us all you just have to read them and understand them and comply with them
there has been enough gripes on this forum with rules the law etc etc there is only one way the correct way and anyone who thinks they are exempt or above these rules and laws are living in a delusional world :o
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Shetland Paul, I don't think people are trying to get round the rules, If you are not a big commercial pig farmer or a big Free Range pig farmer and the pigs are not your main income the rules and regs are a minefield and confusion of what you can and can't do, should you have hours upon hours of time to read every little rule and regulation then all well and good but a lot of people don't so basic guidelines would be of more help. As for the programme you are referring to no I didn't see it, I have seen programmes on how they slaughter there animals and by watching that how they feed them comes to of no surprise to me at all.
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the rules do take reading but they really are not complicated. the basicilly fall in to husbandry feeding and transport.
if your a smallholder then its really straight forward insure you have a herd number and the right housing.
ensure that you either buy ready mixed feed and store it safe from vermin. if making your own then it becomes a bit more of a hassle.
ensure they are healthy and remain so.
if your a smallholder then transport is not too difficult. well it should not be if you can get them loaded.
the paperwork is simple for small numbers. a movement book and a med book.
animal health will be happy to give advice.
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I must admit I have never understood why people complain about the rules and regs, as shetlandpaul says they are not complicated.It takes very little time to do the paperwork. Obviously its a bit more involved if you are a big farm but as a smallholder I can't see the problem.
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This will be my last reply on this strand...so here goes
I am amazed at the number of people who say the regs are for their own good and at the same time know they are in some cases ridiculous but support the regulators anyway. I don't understand the "rules are rules" attitude!!! Don't you feel like you are being intruded upon.
I sounds like some of you know you are being played by the gov't (follow the money).
I resent anyone treating the masses as if we are too stupid to seek good advise and learn from mistakes. I also question the motives of those who think they know best (except my mom and dad...they did know best, most of the time ;D) and spend time and $ legislating "for our own good". I think the seatbelt laws are crazy.
I disagree with a lot of you, but LOVE this site!
Thanks for tolerating a BIG MOUTH Yank.
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I am amazed at the number of people who say the regs are for their own good and at the same time know they are in some cases ridiculous but support the regulators anyway. I don't understand the "rules are rules" attitude!!! Don't you feel like you are being intruded upon.
Yes, I suppose sometimes it does feel as if they're legislating for idiots ::) but I think that if you're going to keep stock (whether 2 or 2000) you have to do it properly. The laws are there for all - small scale and big scale operations alike. Whether you agree with them or not, they are a legal requirement. As a keeper it's your responsibility to make sure you know the rules and operate within them - if you're not prepared to do that you shouldn't be keeping animals in the first place (I don't mean you , as in YOU - I mean people in general ;))
Your comment about the seatbelts law is just crazy though :o
My husband was involved in a crash last year, the day after our 4th child was born. It wasn't his fault (some nutter coming straight through a stop sign) but if it hadn't been for his seatbelt he wouldn't be here today and my kids would be growing up without a dad :'(
A very good friend of mine died in a car crash aged just 17 - yup, you've guessed it, he wasn't wearing a seatbelt :-\ :'(
By all means - stick it to the man ;) but seatbelts save lives !
Karen x
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yankie girl i disagree with a lot of people on here as well
the seat belt law well when you get catapulted out your windshield it is to late to buckle up and just before your knees snap as you continue your journeyalong the hood
the helmet law just recently an American biker was killed on a protest rally against wearing helmets yep if he had been wearing a helmet he would have lived
in general the British just do as they are told
but don't stop adding to the forum it is good to hear from other parts of the world learning is knowledge :pig: :farmer: :wave:
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and knowledge is power!
i wear a seatbelt. saved my life twice now.
8)
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Hubby is a traffic cop, doesn't enjoy picking up a teenagers' head from this bit of the road and the body from that, all of which would have been avoided if the kid had been wearing a seat belt :P
It might be nice to think that we were all, always, sensible enough to act in our own and other people's best interests, but evidence suggests we're not and anyway sometimes our and others' best interests conflict. So we have laws.
Can't say I disagree with the seat belt law. Quite apart from preventing misery, if you're damaged rather than killed outright, it costs other people to take care of you. If you're killed other people may have to fork out for your family. So other people do have an interest in your reckless behaviour.
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On the other hand, the supply of donor organs has dropped since the seat belt law was introduced...........
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every cloud has a silver lining tiva diva i have your photo frame and cards are you still going to the yorkshire :farmer:
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No, damn it! Got sent on a course by the Army! Bugger!
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There are some rules that are stupid and I can't see that anyone would disagree with me on this particular rule....
I am currently in Delaware where the motorbike rules are that you must carry a helmet on your bike. Not on your head, just on your bike. Can anyone see the sense in that?
With regards to seat belts, I was involved in a very serious accident, the other car hit me head on doing 90 mph. Consensus is that I only lived because I was wearing my seatbelt.
Sally
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that does seem strange to make it a law to carry one but not to wear it. the wife's been in two nasty crashes both times if she had not been wearing her seat belt i would have been a widower. saying that my oldest daughter was more seriously hurt by the seat belt than by the crash. we are also blessed with the safer designs and airbags.