The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: wytsend on July 01, 2011, 06:38:03 am
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I am amassing pics of goats with badly torn ears due to tag damage. There is a reason for this... we may be able to persuade the powers that be to rethink the whole business. I have been asked to provide eveidence of this damage.
It becomes even more personal as last night... my oldest and best goat friend had her ear ripped from top to bottom.... because she got it caught up in a bucket handle !!! It is unstitchable so will have to heal on its own.I need a clear pic of the damage..attach your name, how long ago it happened, if you know & how much the Vet bill came to, again if this was necessary.
Send pics to [email protected]
By doing this it may help all goat keepers.... there are no promises but serious discussion has started at a high level on this one.
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Well done you and others...!
Sheeps ears can get into a terrible state.....this is a serious welfare issue!
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We always snip through the bend of the fold over tags to prevent them snagging , all our goats wear collars for our convienience , why can't the tag be fitted to a cheap collar?
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as with sheep cows and pigs the tag has to be permanently fitted fitting it to a collar does not ID that animal :farmer:
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Tags are not permanent !!!! This is one of the issues under discussion.... I am aware of several goats having their identities changed.
There is a move to microchip goats for permanent ID.... this is the reason for pics as the welfare isssue will be put to EU & otherbodies to shoe how cruel these are.
My goat who tore her ear yesterday was wearing swing tags.... it was the pin that caught on the bucket handle!!!!!
The more pics of ear damage that can be shown the better.
So come on help me with this and get these tags off goats.
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wytsend your point rings true for sheep cattle and pigs there will always be that rouge element that will beat any system good luck and maybe if successfully it will filter down to other species :farmer:
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I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MICROCHIPPING INSTEAD!I MAY HAVE A PIC OF AN OLD GOAT I HAD WHO RIPPED HER EAR...I'LL LOOK FOR YOU.X. GOOD LUCK.. :hshoe: :hshoe: :hshoe: :)
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Our particular interest is goats becasue of their browsing habits which, as we all know, gets them into trouble. They are also more likely to chew each others tags which is another problem.
Microships will be no more expensive than tags... in fact cheaper because they won't have to keep being replaced.
Tattoing may be back to easily identify individuals but this is under discussion... would be useful for all breeds where goats look alike !!!!!!!
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Jane
Gordon Webster has found a company that do leg bands- they go on round the shin, cannot come back off (unless cut I guess-but the same goes for tags). They do not annoy the goats and I know a large commercial herd have used them as although on back legs as that is more convienent when the goats are in the milking parlour.
They look so much better than ear tags.
Beth
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Tell me more....! Been trying to find leg bands for my sheep and was told no company in GB was making them!
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i can give u 2 fotos, our ponies are all microchipped so thats a much better idea. i presume nobody keeps goats by the 1000 in uk? incidentaly our pigs lost both their button tags too but never ripped their ears at all.
does anyone use the bolus ID on their goats?
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2 days ago, Reggie my togg boy ripped his tag out (trying to browse apple tree branches!) it will be my pleasure to photograph his ear and send it to you. What a brilliant campaign - well done you. I was really upset to see his ear like this :( one of the soppy sheep has also got a gaping hole too bless her.
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i can give u 2 fotos, our ponies are all microchipped so thats a much better idea. i presume nobody keeps goats by the 1000 in uk? incidentaly our pigs lost both their button tags too but never ripped their ears at all.
does anyone use the bolus ID on their goats?
Commercial herds do keep goats by the thousand. I think these use EID or boluses generally, as it is easier to pick up the goat electronically when it gets milked.
Beth
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We have been advised by Goat Veterinary Society that using the bolus ID on goats is an absolute no no. This is due to the incredibly soft membranes at the back of throat which stand a very high risk of damage when the bolus is inserted.
The plan.. if it is accepted by the powers in Brussels.. is to insert the microchip under the ear. Apparently it cannot migrate from that position and it also satisfies the Scrapie regulations for those on the scheme....it goes with the head for testing.
Tattooing would be useful as well so that individual ID can be done without having to carry around the chip reader !!!!!! Obviously this would mainly apply to the bigger herds who have identical goats. Most of us would probably write the goats name on its collar ion addition to the chip.
We will see.... long way to go yet..... I need as many pics as possible.
The Countess of Mar is also lending her support direct to Goat Vet Society who will be preparing the report.
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Don't like microchipping as I haven't developed X-ray vision yet and don't fancy having to pay a vet to come out and do it at great expence!('cos you bet they will jump on the bandwagon once they smell another money making scheme ;))
Never had much problem with ear tags except when I used the small ones and they used to go straight through the ear!
Tattoing was a waste of time ::)
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I have a goat with a ripped ear, will photo for you a.s.a.p ......
and happily add my support to a campaign for a better system, especially for the smaller goat herd
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I too have a little alpine female, whose ear has been ripped all the way down, and some of the large castrated boys have suffered less serious damage when their tag got caught up. I am always reluctant to tag the goat kids until I have to ....usually when they are sold. There is no way I can get another tag in the females ear, and I have no intention of doing so.
I have always thought that tags and goats do not mix - anyone with goats knows what they are like, and the places they stick their heads.
If the law on this can be changed I would be very happy indeed!!
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A vet friend once demonstrated to us with a couple of microchips and a reader, that if you place two chips side by side you get a different reading, turn one of them through 180 degs. and you get another reading, lay one at 90 degs across the other and you get a totaly different reading , also chips can be regected through the insertion hole before it heals properly , we had this happen with our dog. also chips can be snapped in two under the skin making them unreadable. so the whole issue is open to abuse.
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Will take some pics for you, we have some quite badly damaged ears, do you want sheep as well or just goats.
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Just goats please.
Tizaala: appreciate where you are coming from... chips have been used on horses for many years successfully and it is envisaged the success rate in goats will be as good, the proposed area to insert is less likely to reject than others.
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Need more pics as soon as possible please..... there are hundreds of goats with ripped ears.
Come on guys... even healed up ears are good !!
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mum has been on a trading standards for years re tags only the other week at a show a kid got its tag caught in a hay rack all hell broke loose in the tent until it was sorted, the public were left quite upset.i now wish we had photo's or video of the trauma caused but in blind panic no one thought to do anything other than help the goat out.
the old ear tattoo system worked for years until the powers that be (and have no understanding of livestock) came up with this system. bring back the tattoo's easy to apply and read with no chance of ear damage.
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I'm trying Wytsend - the bloomin' goat just won't stand still!!
:D
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if the public were to be informed of the potential dangers and you had them on your side the powers that be would have to take notice and change for the better :goat:
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Wytsend Did you get my email, last friday? Coles ripped ear - thank you
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Brucklay: yes I did thanks very much for that.
Robert: Unfortunately sheep & goats have been lumped together & it is an EU directive to tag. Defra fought about the ruling but had to back down.
Now apparently if sufficient evidence can show how detrimental tagging is to the Welfare of the animals concerned... there is a possibility of talks being started again. I believe the intention is to harp on welfare because permanent ID can be done in alternative ways... certainly more 'permanent' than the current system which is being abused right left and centre.
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Its funny eh that a person can be prosecuted and banned from keeping a dog for putting a stud in its ear (like an earing) but sheep and goats have to undergo this mutilation! Believe me sheep suffer just as much as goats in this situation, I have a lamb with its ear ripped in 2......
The old goat tattooing system was fail safe as the tat could never be changed or fiddled with, identities were for life and the tattoo caused little stress. The problem with chips apparently is that if inserted under the skin they 'could' migrate to other areas of the body and be eaten by someone ::).....however surely a scanner in every abattoir would mitigate this?
Of course we all know dont we that livestock have no feelings....unlike dogs >:( >:( >:(
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As far as I know the tattoo in one ear and tag in the other is legal for goats, the problem is that the higher cost of tattooing equipment is difficult to justify for the standard small-herd goat keeper. I am starting to look into this, as I am more worried that goat ID's can be changed to so easily with tags... If I had more local goatkeepers around it would be a good piece of kit to share (with proper disinfection obviously).
However mine have so far not ripped any of their tags out or damaged their ears (the ones I tagged with SET tags that is), even though their heads still go through the fence... all the sheep have theirs still too! But I don't tag my lambs until they are all at least 6 months old.
The problem with microchipping is that goats are classified as meat that is eaten, so I think that would make it quite difficult to argue that they are safe? (and it would also be another vet job that needs to be paid for). Microchip to go into the tail?
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sent.
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hey there! i'm a new member and joined so i could partake in this particular discussion (though i dare say i'll hang around!)
one of my goats ripped her tag lengthwise today :( in a fit of rage i phoned animal health and aske how the hell i was supposed to retag when there was nothing left to retag into.
was told not to worry, i asked if i could put the replacement tag on her collar and he said he didnt see why not as it was only for id purposes ???
then i asked if i could id chip instead of ear tagging as none of my goats will ever be going into the food chain, he looked on his pooter and he said he saw no reason why not. i asked how sure he was and he said sure enough that if anyone came round and said i was breaking the rules to give them his name! ;D
will post pics tomorrow, let me know if i can do anything to help. i think it will only be a problem id chipping animals that could end up in the food chain.
either that or the animal health bloke i spoke to was rubbish!
cheers
donna
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As far as I know the tattoo in one ear and tag in the other is legal for goats, the problem is that the higher cost of tattooing equipment is difficult to justify for the standard small-herd goat keeper. I am starting to look into this, as I am more worried that goat ID's can be changed to so easily with tags... If I had more local goatkeepers around it would be a good piece of kit to share (with proper disinfection obviously).
However mine have so far not ripped any of their tags out or damaged their ears (the ones I tagged with SET tags that is), even though their heads still go through the fence... all the sheep have theirs still too! But I don't tag my lambs until they are all at least 6 months old.
The problem with microchipping is that goats are classified as meat that is eaten, so I think that would make it quite difficult to argue that they are safe? (and it would also be another vet job that needs to be paid for). Microchip to go into the tail?
Anke the SGF has some sets of ear markers. They used to be out positioned round the country, but not now. You can still use them, we have a set here. It is a bit of a longer and messier process than tagging- but at least they don't infect! Will speak to you at Kelso if you want to talk about tattooing in one ear. Gordon does that at the moment....
Beth
Beth
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There is a pocket of skin/muscle under the ear where it is proposed for the ear tag. This would satisfy the meat chain issues as the head is removed complete with tag.
It also satisfies the regulations for hers that are on the Scrapie monitoring scheme.
I intend to submit all pictures at the end of this week to my contact who is doing the major collation work... he is in touch with the EU in Brussels.
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I would be interested to know if there is any news on this?
When I got my nanny kids last year I was, justifiably!, excited and posted pics on here and I was warned re their eartags (they were normal sheep ones and looked quite big in the little ones ears). Unfortunately the warnings were right and both my beautiful goats now have forked ears where their tags have been ripped out.
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The goat club I was a member of had a tatoo kit for members (one person would do the tatooing) it worked well, the small charge went towards club funds, that was some years ago.
I was talking to someone just a couple of days ago who tatooed one ear and tagged the other, they show goats.
one of mine has managed to break a tag so she only has the outside part, still fastened. Don't know where that leaves me legally?
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It all still very new to me but is not the position of the tag as much of an issue here?
most tagged animals seem to have their tags in the center of the ear where it is most vulnerable,
a friend who has kept goats for many years is doing mine for me and she puts hers on the back edge of the ear close to the head so the tag is well out of the way