The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: plumseverywhere on June 19, 2011, 11:51:17 am

Title: Ill goat
Post by: plumseverywhere on June 19, 2011, 11:51:17 am
My maiden milker developed scour a couple of days ago. Brown runny poo which turned to yellowy mucousy poo then blood stained mucous and watery stool (looked like urine)
spoke to vet on phone. all jabs/worming up to date (heptavac P'd etc)  so hay and water and close watching.
Yesterday she started to perk up a bit and I would say she is a good 75% better having gone from not wanting to stand/eat/drink to getting up and having a wander round the paddock and nibbling hay. However, she has still got some blood coming from her back passage. Only a tiny trickle

do you think this will clear up and is residue from severe scours? shall I make sure she has no access to the willow (I read that willow has natural aspirin and from human nursing I know aspirin can cause bleeding in the gut - wondering if that's the same with goats?)
any other ideas/help gratefully received
lisa
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: jaykay on June 19, 2011, 12:05:36 pm
Is the blood fresh, ie red?

Coccidiosis can cause bloody scour. I don't know of much else that does in adults.

Aspirin causes stomach bleeding if anything and i think the blood would be degraded by the time it came out in the faeces, ie black rather than red. If indeed willow causes this problem, I think they might have to eat quite a bit to get an aspirin sort of dose?

When all else fails, ask Wytsend  :)
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: plumseverywhere on June 19, 2011, 12:51:05 pm
Thanks Jaykay - thinking about it, you are right it would be old blood rather than frank and fresh. its a teeny tiny trickel and not often so I'm keeping everything crossed that is going to be ok. the vet seemed ok with the bloody mucus when I told him and said it was because it was severe scour but if she poo'd I could catch about 20mls for stool sampling monday.
she is so much better in her self though I think
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: jaykay on June 19, 2011, 02:41:11 pm
Very glad to hear she's feeling better  :)
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: Anke on June 19, 2011, 08:53:24 pm
Hope she is perking up again... trouble up here too... my heavy milker has just developed mastitis again... a week after I took her to a show and she did really well there, so now milk yield has fallen by over a ltr a day, she has also decided that the usual dairy nuts she eats don't taste the same anymore and we have toddler-like temper tantrums and flying feed bowls...but that's goats I guess....

Watch out for your wee milker, if it was something like cocci it may just come round again in about a week's time.
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: jaykay on June 19, 2011, 09:03:08 pm
Sorry about the mastitis  :-* -  and the tantrums  :D
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: HappyHippy on June 19, 2011, 09:07:28 pm
Can't offer any practical goat keeping advice  :-[
But I'm glad she's picking up and I'll keep sending the Reiki  ;)

Karen x
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: plumseverywhere on June 19, 2011, 09:42:12 pm
Thank you so much Karen! I couldnt' believe the change in her, it was really sudden yesterday and my friend and I checked her first time she was lying down miserable. went back an hour later and she had her head out the shed door looking for us!! brilliant, so happy  :)
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: little blue on June 19, 2011, 09:56:06 pm
bless her,  good wishes to Savanna!
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: wytsend on June 20, 2011, 08:21:22 am
What you have described is classis Coccidiosis.

Give her a dose of Vecoxan or Baycox.  Not cheap but will cure it.  It does need treating because it does kill.

Unfortunately, once coccidiosis is on your land, it is there for good.  All kids need to be dosed whether they are showing signs or not.
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: katie on June 20, 2011, 08:50:45 am
That would mean any lambs as well, then, presumably?
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: plumseverywhere on June 20, 2011, 09:31:19 am
THanks Wytsend - can I get vecoxan or baycox at farm stores or is it vet prescription only? have been disgarding all milk since she was ill anyway but out of interest, would it transfer to humans?
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: wytsend on June 20, 2011, 09:37:44 am
I think you can get Vecoxan at stores.. not sure, ... Baycox, which I believe is stronger is VET only. 
You need to dose today,  do not delay. 

You will need to do everybody... goats, sheep, cattle.. on your land.  It is a weight related drug but not precise to the last ounce.!!!

This is animal specific.

Usually the first signs of cocci  is a dead animal... you may be lucky.  But I do not like the sound of the blood.  It could also be caused by a huge worm load having damaged the gut despite regular worming.

My money is on cocci.
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: plumseverywhere on June 20, 2011, 10:28:06 am
vet currently doing urgent stool tests so will await results and treat accordingly.
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: ellisr on June 20, 2011, 11:03:36 am
one of the reasons I only worm when needed and not on a regular timetable is so that the animals cannot build up an immunity to the wormer it has been much more effective this way.
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: wytsend on June 20, 2011, 12:17:13 pm
Sounds like a good plan.!!
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: Anke on June 20, 2011, 12:56:47 pm
As far as I am aware Cocci is mainly a disease of kids, especially if kept indoors. I have just had two of my younger kids having a couple of cycles of Cocci with the slightly older female kids in the neighbouring pen NOT showing any signs of the disease. The initial disease was probably caused by overeating on green stuff, causing diarrhoea, causing illnes and stress, then developing into cocci (as it returned about a week later).

It all depends on previous exposure, and if exposure is sudden or under  stress, when the animal cannot cope then disease occurs. If your adult girl had cocci it would be as a result of some stress possibly coupled with some digestive upset and/or worm burden. It will a) be difficult to establish for sure that that was it, as all goats shed the oocysts, and some can have a large burden without any signs of disease. b) treating with an anticocci medicine will deal with it in the meantime.

I have treated my kids with Intradine, which is an injectable drug and therefore can be dosed very well. Your vet may have to order that in especially, as it is not anymore specifically licensed for cocci. I have also used that very successful in lambs (not this year)

If you have cocci in your shed it may be worth to do a serious clean-out before kidding next year, and then keep it freshly strawed and clean for the first few weeks. I don't think that treating the adults prior to kidding as a prophylactic measure is necessary, as kids will need to be exposed to cocci in order to build up immunity. Only when mixing kids/lambs of different ages and the younger ones do not yet have the immunity will coccidiosis happen (or they encounter some unexpected stress factors).

According to my vet book, only one of the 12 cocci causing species is transmissable between sheep and goats, all others are goat specific, it is not transmitted to poultry, pets or others. Therefore treating all your livestock is not necessary. I would also not treat the rest of the goats unless they show any signs. Because they should be able to cope!
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: plumseverywhere on June 20, 2011, 05:28:13 pm
HUGE RELIEF!!! Its NOT coccy. Its not worm burden. Seems that vannah might have some damp hay working its way through the system but Vet has done the checks and there are no indicators for worms or coccidiosis. He's also said not to be concerned about the lambs because we had a very dry April in WOrcs and every patch of mud in the world has coccy but its damp Aprils when they are diddy that can make them predisposed (I swear these lambs have cast iron guts!!)

so he is coming out tomorrow with anti inflammatory and antibiotics and to review her - just before school run, hubby cursing but I'll just do whatever it takes now to get my girl well again  :)
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: katie on June 20, 2011, 05:57:18 pm
Brilliant! Now you can relax. Phew!

Katie
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: Anke on June 21, 2011, 01:48:25 pm
I have stopped hoping that at least one month per year I will NOT have a vet's bill.... but as I do the finances in our house it can usually be managed (having said that I always discuss any vet stuff with OH, so that I have his agreement "in principle"). If it's not the goats, it will be some sheep stuff, or next month it will be the dog's turn for her vaccinations booster etc...

Hope your girl will be better by now, if you have a small livestock trailer you could possibly take her to the vet, rather than have call-out charges on top of the other fees...
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: plumseverywhere on June 21, 2011, 02:44:32 pm
Vet has been and seen savannah. she has been given buscopan and a sulphide drug. also a drench of antacid and other yummy stuff for every morning.  she has also had bloods taken for JOhne's just to be clear if there are any concerns there.
still on hay and water, still scours but fingers crossed
Title: Re: Ill goat
Post by: little blue on June 21, 2011, 07:43:26 pm
 bless her, i hope that helps - Buscopan is great stuff (for me, can  only guess it will be as good for Savannah!!)
let us know how she goes on...

:wave: to you and  :-* to the goat!