The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Norfolk Newby on June 15, 2011, 09:54:55 am
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With all the gloom and doom about the earth warming up, how about some G&D about it cooling down - a mini ice-age?
Some chaps in the USA have predicted that the sun is going to sleep and we can expect a long cold period (20years?)
This report is a bit OTT but gets the message across:-
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/14/ice_age/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/14/ice_age/)
This one is more about the science:-
http://earthsky.org/space/major-drop-in-solar-activity-ahead-scientists-say (http://earthsky.org/space/major-drop-in-solar-activity-ahead-scientists-say)
And this is the NSO's web site if you want to know more about them:-
http://www.nso.edu/ (http://www.nso.edu/)
I'll leave you to decide whether we need to order more thermal underwear or just keep smiling!
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The climate has been changing since the beginning of time.
Only a fool believes we, as humans, have any influence on the change. We just have to adapt.
Here in the US powerful people have hoodwinked the masses into believing we can do something about it and these folks are laughing all the way to the bank! Green is just a color!
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I am a fool then ;D Of course humans have influenced what is happening to our climate, spewing out noxious gases into the atmosphere for the last 200 years, from factory chimneys. I haven't read NNs links because there is a lot of scaremongering around, but the scientific evidence is showing a speedier change than we could expect from 'normal' periodic climate change. Whether humans can now reduce the effects of our past actions remains to be seen - but it will take all of us to do it, which will include the United States.
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I think Americans are possible brainwashed into believing it isn't us that is causing it because they need so much energy!
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Doganjo:
No brainwashing, just the truth!
You got one thing right...We do like energy!
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yep V8.S loud pipes save lives :P
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Technically it isn't global warming, it's climate change. Yes, it has been happening since the beginning of time, but there is absolutely no doubt that we are adding to it - there is significant proof. Sad thing is that the main protagonists don't give a damn.
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well Britain is not squeaky clean on this back in the industrial revolution these nice quaint photos you see of factory's with workers lined up smiling for the camera were taken on a sunday any other day you could not see the factory's for smoke
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I wonder, do you think the groundhogs get together and discuss the fact that they are over populating my pasture. That at the rate they are digging and tunnelling, in the year 2056 the pasture will colapse and life as they know it will cease to exist? Do you think their leaders are leading the charge to start building "green" dwellings on top of the pasture? Think their gov't is forcing them to ... oh forget it. hahaha
I guess time will tell who is right (me) and who is wrong.
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Sorry if I have stirred up an ants nest here. It wasn't my intention.
I'm not a meteorologist so I don't know what is really happening to our climate. What I do know is that our local climate (mid Norfolk, England) is doing strange things. The last two springs have been warm and very dry which is bad news when you don't get much rain anyway and your plot of land is 3 feet of light sandy soil over chalk. Recent summers have been dull, cool and fairly wet and we have just had a very cold December with more snow than was wanted.
Now If this is because of global warming/climate change (for whatever reason) then more of it might make this area fairly unpleasant. Therefore a bit of cooling courtesy of a sleepy sun might help reduce the bad effects of the warming or it might make the weather a lot worse.
Perhaps the English are just over-sensitive to the weather. Perhaps we should just smile and turn up the heating/aircon/vent/pump. Or possibly revert to cave dwelling!
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oy we were looking forward to a bit of global warming. now you tell us its going to get colder. thanks for nothing. sadly we don't have a dought if you want some of our rain feel free. saturday nights rain was quite impressive.
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I grew up in Norfolk and the weather was different each year. We had some huge falls of snow some years, howling winds, burning hot summers, wet springs, wet harvest, hot harvest, late frosts - everything. The last 2 or 3 decades seem to have been hotter and drier than previously in general, but the variation over 100 years (no - that's not how long ago I lived there :D) will be less than we think. After all, people tend to remember the extremes and forget the day to day drudgey normal weather.
Sorry if I have stirred up an ants nest here. It wasn't my intention.
I'm not a meteorologist so I don't know what is really happening to our climate. What I do know is that our local climate (mid Norfolk, England) is doing strange things. The last two springs have been warm and very dry which is bad news when you don't get much rain anyway and your plot of land is 3 feet of light sandy soil over chalk. Recent summers have been dull, cool and fairly wet and we have just had a very cold December with more snow than was wanted.
Now If this is because of global warming/climate change (for whatever reason) then more of it might make this area fairly unpleasant. Therefore a bit of cooling courtesy of a sleepy sun might help reduce the bad effects of the warming or it might make the weather a lot worse.
Perhaps the English are just over-sensitive to the weather. Perhaps we should just smile and turn up the heating/aircon/vent/pump. Or possibly revert to cave dwelling!
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I am sitting here in central Pennsylvania with a sweatshirt and socks on. It was freezing last night (upper 40's). I spent most of today running every piece of machinery we have, hoping it will put out a cloud of carbon monoxide/dioxide that will make the temps more summery! hahaha
You have to look at time in terms of centuries and longer.
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well if we see any icebergs or sunbathers in mid feb we will inform you. looks as wet and cold as normal.
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@yankieGirl - 'Cause and effect' dictates that of our actions on this planet effect our locality, country, planet, galaxy, universe - blah blah
If you believe we are part of a 'normal cycle' by polluting, destroying and wasting natural limited resources then you must obviously believe that as a cycle there must have been another previous intelligent species, otherwise maybe its time to admit that this maybe the first time our planet has has to deal with our modern day pollutions?
That saying I can understand your scepticism, the 'green bandwagon crew' are very prevalent I think everywhere and some of the government schemes like carbon offsetting and stuff are just a joke.
I'm aware that I am a part of climate change - that saying I still leave the tractor on tickover all day because I cant be arsed to jumpstart it ;)
As for a mini ice age - I'll worry about it if it happens - bbrrrr hope not to soon.
Baz
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Why do you think we are part of climate change? We are but a tiny cog of the wheel that is the universe!
God thinks we are special but in terms of the big picture, we are but a speck.
I have to go now...I smell pig poo on me. It comes and goes. Can't pin point the exact source on my clothes. Think I need to clean up.
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Well whatever is causing the change in the weather I just do my bit to save putting everything in a landfill site and causing more problems. ::) I recycle everything I can, I switch off lights if I am not in the room - except if it is a fluorescent one (garage/kennel in the evening) which uses more power being switched on and off than staying on, I collect twigs and branches that fall off my trees to burn in my fire, but I don't take from the woodland walks I go on with my dogs as they are not my woods, I keep my heating on a lower temperature and wear an extra top, I buy food that is about to out of date and freeze it on the day, I keep my freezer as full as I can, I wear clothes from the charity shops as that is another way of recycling, I give things away on freegle/freecycle, and if I see anything offered there that I need I ask if I can have it. I try to grow food but I'm not very good at it, I have ducks and chickens so am self sufficient in eggs. I do my best, but I sometimes wonder if it's good enough. ;D
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Annie what you are doing is positive and better than doing nothing.
Yankie Girl - we can't blame this one on a God, it's real life. Why would you think that we are NOT part of what is causing climate change? Earth is a small planet with a huge infestation of human beings, which have multiplied far beyond what is ideal for a planet of this size. We are not a speck, we are legion. This has led to an imbalance in the natural systems which control the climate of our little planet. So many humans are, as I said before, spewing out industrial pollutants in to the atmosphere and at the same time removing huge areas of forest - the forests and all greenery are the lungs of our world, turning sunlight and carbon dioxide into oxygen for us to breathe. The Earth won't die, but we just might if we continue, with our greed for energy, to add to the imbalance we are causing. Then the Earth will give a good shake and we will all be gone.
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Yankie Girl - we can't blame this one on a God, it's real life. Why would you think that we are NOT part of what is causing climate change? Earth is a small planet with a huge infestation of human beings, which have multiplied far beyond what is ideal for a planet of this size.
I don't blame anything about this on God.
I must not have been issued the manual on how many people are ideal for a planet of this size. We Yanks aren't big on reading anyway! haha
Also, how do you know we are "out of balance"? That is the kind of blah blah blah that makes my side of the argument crazy. What is balance? According to who?
Please give me credit for knowing that we need to responsible stewarts of the wonderful place God has given us to live. I know not to poop in my hat.
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HOW DO I MAKE THAT BLUE SHADED BOX TO QUOTE ANOTHER PERSON?
I just want to fit in!!!!!!!!!!!
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HOW DO I MAKE THAT BLUE SHADED BOX TO QUOTE ANOTHER PERSON?
I just want to fit in!!!!!!!!!!!
Press 'Quote' and then type your response after you see /quote in square brackets.
You're opinionated, independent-minded and outspoken. You fit right in. ;D
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My Grandfather, who lived to 99yrs and died in the seventies , could remember the ice skating on the Thames and people having an ox-roast on the river Severn at Bridgenorth when he was a young man.
Technically we are still coming out of the last ice-age, Volcanos chuck out more poisonous gasses than man, Gods were invented by man, not the other way round , (work it out for yourselves)
Cows (and Grandad) contributed more to climate change, if we could only harvest those flamable gasses we could run our cars......
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Ok here goes
Press 'Quote' and then type your response after you see /quote in square brackets.
did it work?
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I am not usually this d@mn stupid. I quit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Highlight and copy a section of the post you want to quote. Hover over the icon on the middle row with the yellow speech box in it, it says 'insert quote', click on it and quotes are inserted into your message. Click between those words and paste the words you copied.
viz - I am not usually this d@mn stupid. I quit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why am I helping you? You are a waster of my world's energy ;D ;D ;D
And if you want to quote a whole message the word 'quote' is on the top right hand side of the message. Clcik on that and it autonmatically opens a reply box with the words already quoted. ::) ::) I found all of this out by trial and error. Try harder! ;) ;D ;D ;D And use the smileys, they are COOL! 8)
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Highlight and copy a section of the post you want to quote. Hover over the icon on the middle row with the yellow speech box in it, it says 'insert quote', click on it and quotes are inserted into your message. Click between those words and paste the words you copied.
viz - I am not usually this d@mn stupid. I quit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why am I helping you? You are a waster of my world's energy ;D ;D ;D
And if you want to quote a whole message the word 'quote' is on the top right hand side of the message. Clcik on that and it autonmatically opens a reply box with the words already quoted. ::) ::) I found all of this out by trial and error. Try harder! ;) ;D ;D ;D And use the smileys, they are COOL! 8)
See? :-* :wave: :love:
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Also, how do you know we are "out of balance"? That is the kind of blah blah blah that makes my side of the argument crazy. What is balance? According to who?
Hi Yankee Girl.
It is tempting just to ignore all the screaming panicking apocalyptic ranting which goes on, because that is a load of old blah blah blah as you call it. However, it is worth looking calmly to find what seems to be a kernel of truth underneath all that stuff. There are some dedicated scientists, whose work is hyped out of all proportion by the media, but who are doing steady research into the changes occurring.
Firstly though, there is a difference between weather and climate as I'm sure you know, where weather changes every year and has cycles in the order of hundreds of years, whereas climate changes over thousands of years, millennia and eras.
When I spoke of 'balance' it was not any kind of blahblahblah - let me explain. Over geological time, the climate of the earth has changed drastically, as you have said. For most of this time the conditions on Earth have not been suitable for mammals to live - in fact for most of its history Earth has not had 'life' of any kind.
In the current era, climate and life have evolved to a point where mammals - and human beings - can live and breathe, eat and reproduce. To do that, we need certain conditions such as a particular percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere with a low incidence of gases we cannot breathe, a range of temperatures we can cope with, sufficient rainfall to grow our crops - and these conditions must also suit the plants we eat - mainly grass-based cereals - and the animals we eat.
The Earth currently has achieved a balance of these things, and others, which enable us to live here.
If this balance is changed then yes, initially we, or some of us, could adapt and evolve to cope (as those living in the high areas of say Tibet have done, having a higher concentration of red blood cells to enable them to breathe air with less oxygen in it). However, if the climate changes to such a degree, or so quickly, that we cannot evolve or adapt or we reach the limits of our adaptability or evolutionary potential, then we cannot live here so humanity will die out - we don't have anywhere else to go. The Earth will continue as she always has, but our interest is presumably only in our own survival as a species.
So when I use the word balance, I mean a set of conditions which suit humans - this is not according to what 'someone' says, but simply what is the case (no food - you die. No oxygen - you die. Under water - you die. No babies - the species dies). By artificially altering some of the aspects of this balance, we risk upsetting the whole thing. The only way to 'prove' this will be when we are wiped out, so we - you and I - are not going to know about it, but it seems sensible to me to take the situation seriously and slow down world consumption of those raw materials whose use is leading to a change in our environment.
There are all sorts of changes which may occur, including a rise in sea levels - this is only really important to those who live in the majority of the cities of the world, which would become below sea level. Their loss will not affect the Earth, but will be pretty inconvenient for those living there. A lot of prime agricultural land will also be lost, which will affect our ability to feed our huge numbers, something which we don't seem able to do even now.
So I think the idea of climate change is something we should take seriously, find out the facts as far as we can, ignore the ranters and see what we can ALL do to help.
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I love this site! Thanks for helping a lowly "energy waster"!!!! hahaha
I think I got it!
You folks are the best!
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... world consumption of those raw materials whose use is leading to a change in our environment.
I follow your argument.
I agree that as the climate changes so does our reaction to those changes (planting earlier or later in the season etc).
However, in the above you are assuming something that hasn't been proven. That is the point of contention between the me's of the world and the you's
(See how good I am at entering quotes!!!)
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Are the hapless citizens of New Orleans better off now they have incontrovertible proof that their flood defences were totally inadequate?
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The hapless citizens in New Orleans were living in a city built below sea level!!! A government made assurances that all was well when all along they knew the levees were deficient. You are mixing due diligence with wild speculation.
I don't see the connection to the issue at hand. Keep in mind I couldn't get the quote thing down for a long time!
Off to bleach my moustache!
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And we think Americans can't do irony... ;)
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The hapless citizens in New Orleans were living in a city built below sea level!!! A government made assurances that all was well when all along they knew the levees were deficient. You are mixing due diligence with wild speculation.
I don't see the connection to the issue at hand. Keep in mind I couldn't get the quote thing down for a long time!
Off to bleach my moustache!
The connection is simple - it is far better to do something about a problem before it becomes a catastrophe - even if you don't have 100% proof.(why nothing was done in the case of New Orleans is irrelevant - it was just an illustration) If you wait for that proof, it could be too late to do something - and way too late to moan "but we didn't know".
I am really concerned at how flippant you are about a world problem which scientists with far better brains than either of us have studied and drawn these unwelcome conclusions from.
'Wild speculation' doesn't have a basis in scientific research, whereas the data emerging about climate change and its impact does. I don't find the situation funny at all and I am not happy leaving it to my grandchildren to sort out.
I am off to bang my head against that brick wall a bit more.
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IM into the wether in a big way .......i pay for my forcast wether action this topic is true my winter in scotland starts on 31 october candle mass and spring starts april i have spent lots on better housing as i know that winters will be hard .2009 2010 was a killer for us december 2010 was as bad as it gets thats 2 hits each yere it will get worse mins 10 for 2 weeks both christmas eves minus 8 and 10 both christmasis out all day feeding watering and this is things to come iv been told the next 25 yeres will be hard iff things do happen .minus 22 and 24 both yeres iff december caried on for a nother 2 months it would finsh farming in scotland i had no more id had enough .so iff we get to say minus 25 to minus 30 no diesel cars vans trucks buses trains .no schools open no transport a complete shut dawn in most off uk .and this is forcast to happen soon .all water electricatey stopt no heat ........i no in 6 months before winter starts the coldest december for 100 yeres i was told in june i had more food gas etc redey but i was skint by the end off december i could not carrey on eney more .so 2 more months off that no stock left all dead no feed gas etc ,iff stock dosent get fed thats it take note ..............
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what do they do in canada or the mid west of america is it only britain that shuts up shop with frost and snow russia has a winter temp problem as well the early sixteys had a colder winter than we just had time to get the vodka and the rusty razor blades out all this doom and gloom and the recession is only just starting to bite :'(
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On a side note :-
I had a mate over from canada last year on holiday and she said that they leave her car running all night to keep it from freezing overnight. For me that sounds perfect, especially if fuel was so cheap :)
I simply refuse to "acknowledge" anyone that states '`we`' dont impact on our planet'. I almost pause for their next statement 'I chuck my litter on the floor cos it helps employ litter pickers' -we are all part of a huge reaction to our actions.
Baz
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I think the States is in complete denial about it's problems - not just with pollution and climate change but a whole load of other stuff aswell.
Americans I have met seem to think they're the greatest living beings on this planet. Their arrogance is monumental ::) ::) ..... except maybe those I met in southern CA
Although having said that - I did once se a guy with a T-shirt and a picture of George Bush on it and a slogan saying "SORRY... I didn't vote for him" ;D ;D