The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: HappyHippy on June 02, 2011, 12:59:45 pm
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Hi folks,
We have had our first problem with AI and I'm hoping for some advice.
2 Berkshire gilts, both 10 months and cycling well, this season we decided to AI them.
First gilt was fine, catheter inserted fine, got the 'lock' and dosed with semen no problems.
Second gilt - well in season, stood fine, catheter inserted and tried to achieve 'lock' but we noticed blood :-\ Withdrew the catheter (gently) and left her and now I'm unsure what to do ? The catheter had blood inside it, so I don't think it's been a tissue injury on the way in (we did use KY jelly) and there seem to be some clots in the blood or at least it looks 'gooey'. No bad smells or discolouration though. We've dosed her with pen & strep and given her vulva a bit of a clean and a spray with iodene. She's still bright, chirpy and not showing any signs of discomfort or illness.
What happened ? What would you suggest we do next ? Help !
Thanks
Karen x
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Leave her till next season and try again?
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Karen I have no ideas or knowledge to help you but I do hope she is ok! Would the semen/catheter supplier be able to advise?
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Hi Annie & Sally :wave:
Sally, it's Deerpark - haven't actually phoned Robert back yet, was hoping for advice on here first :-\
I've spoken to a friend who works in a commercial piggery - apparently it's not that uncommon (here was me getting REALLY worried ::)) they used to have the same thing happening a lot with the corkscrew catheters, so have since changed to the sponge tipped ones and are having better results/less bleeding. So I'll know what to use next time round ;)
Karen x
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I wouldnt worry, for some reason it only happens to our gilts never the sows! Well for us anyway.
She should have been fine to kept going just gentley
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I wouldnt worry, for some reason it only happens to our gilts never the sows! Well for us anyway.
She should have been fine to kept going just gentley
So do pigs have hymens too? perhaps the cause of the bleeding?
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I did google that (it was my first thought) ;) But couldn't find an answer :-\
Good to know she'll be okay next time round - thought I was going to have very expensive pork ::)
Karen :wave:
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The things you learn on here is endless ;D :pig: :chook: :cat: :dog: :horse: :&>
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I've only used the foam-tipped catheters, so I can't help much. I just think they're a bit more gentle on the pig's insides - although the corkscrew catheter will, of course, give a better lock.
All I can imagine is that the corkscrew damaged some internal tissue. If there wasn't a huge amount of blood, I would try again (if she's still standing - haven't checked the date of your post and I've been away at a show). But do it gently!
Good luck
Liz
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I have used both and most definitely prefer the spongey headed cathetars to the screw ins as they I less likley to cause any damage.
Some times screwins can be inserted into the blander opening, which can also cause alot of bleeding, where as this is far less likel to happen with the spongey cathetars.
Having said that, yes you still get this occassionally with the sponge cathetars and is really no great cause for concern.
We just leave her for 24 hours then AI her again.
Certainly with which ever you choose to use make sure you are pushing/screwing them at a 45% angle upwards and with the screw ins, that you screw them anti-clockwise.
Keep on practicing. :wave:
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Thanks for the replies folks.
We'll have a go next season with the sponge tipped catheters and see how she goes. I'm quite certain that we weren't in the bladder - exactly the same proceedure & angles as used on the first gilt, who didn't bleed or have any problems.
Will report back in 3 weeks ;)
Karen :wave:
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Thanks for the replies folks.
We'll have a go next season with the sponge tipped catheters and see how she goes. I'm quite certain that we weren't in the bladder - exactly the same proceedure & angles as used on the first gilt, who didn't bleed or have any problems.
Will report back in 3 weeks ;)
Karen :wave:
Pretty certain that you didn't push it into the bladder also(would be a lot more blood). Just letting you know what the pit falls can be with the twisters.
Sponges need to be pushed relatively hardish in when using them, but not so hard that it will hurt the sow in any way.
If in correctly, should be able to pull it without it coming out(just use two fingers to gently pull on it. If pushed in far enough it should stay in position and not fall out).
The use of KY jelly is a good idea, BUT(and there is always a but... ;D when screwing the lid on and off dirt gets trapped inside the lid which is not a good thing.)
Everything that is pushed into your gilt/sow needs to be nice and clean. So no holding to tip of the cathetar with grubby fingers or sticking it in your mouth to hold it before using it(this has all been seen believe it or not!!)
Best is to put the cathetar in first then attach the bag after.
Little words of wisdom(been there, seen it and done it a thousand times).
Things to give you food for thought, and hope you have much fruitfulness. :wave:
PS surprised Lillian hasn't stepped in here and said "natural is far better than turkey basting" snigger,snigger)
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Oh Stevie, if you're trying to start a fight you should just wear a pink shirt ::) ;) ;D ;D ;D (I'm trying to be funny :-\ :D snigger snigger)
I would have prefered a natural service first time round BUT with the BPA charging me for a pedigree breeding membership (even though I'm not actually, yet !) I wanted to make sure I had pedigree weaners for sale & there aren't any Berkshire boars near to me :( Hence the AI ;)
If it doesn't work I may reconsider, but don't really know what breed to try for the cross ??? Don't want anything too big as the Berkshires are quite small and I had hoped that my Kune Kune boar would cover them - but he's preferring to mate only with other Kunes ::) They ran with him for a few months prior to deciding to AI, but with no effect :-\ Tamworth (one of Lillian's, cos she's close ;)) would definately give a nicely shaped pig with good eating qualities (and much cuteness in colouring, which always helps to sell them ;)) but I just don't know how the size difference would work :-\ The other option I'm toying with is Pietrain (again, there's a breeder fairly close) but really not sure - here's hoping the AI works and I won't have to think about it too much ;D
Karen :wave:
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i have been sitting back watching this one obviously Stevie g is not in the loop as regards fun witty comments or making light of a situation
the turkey baster a long time ago there was a programme called brookside there was a lesbian that wanted to have a baby and that was the method used to fertilize hence the reference to a turkey baster (if memory serves me right there were comments in all the papers as regards this subject)
now as a male it is my preference to have natural service with cattle AI they are trained on AI before they are let lose on any cows yet with pigs anybody can have a go
back on subject HH the gilts are the dominant ones from your description(we had the same with pinky) a bigger boar or more assertive boar will work he wont even take her nickers off or it could be marital rape either way she will be up the stick if fertile
the size difference should be alright at birth it is after birth that they shift at some rate 3 Hampshire's have put on 10 kilos in 7 days and the hamtams doubled there birth weight in the first week :pig: :farmer:
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Oh Stevie, if you're trying to start a fight you should just wear a pink shirt ::) ;) ;D ;D ;D (I'm trying to be funny :-\ :D snigger snigger)
I would have prefered a natural service first time round BUT with the BPA charging me for a pedigree breeding membership (even though I'm not actually, yet !) I wanted to make sure I had pedigree weaners for sale & there aren't any Berkshire boars near to me :( Hence the AI ;)
If it doesn't work I may reconsider, but don't really know what breed to try for the cross ??? Don't want anything too big as the Berkshires are quite small and I had hoped that my Kune Kune boar would cover them - but he's preferring to mate only with other Kunes ::) They ran with him for a few months prior to deciding to AI, but with no effect :-\ Tamworth (one of Lillian's, cos she's close ;)) would definately give a nicely shaped pig with good eating qualities (and much cuteness in colouring, which always helps to sell them ;)) but I just don't know how the size difference would work :-\ The other option I'm toying with is Pietrain (again, there's a breeder fairly close) but really not sure - here's hoping the AI works and I won't have to think about it too much ;D
Karen :wave:
Was just doing a little piece of leg pulling ::), nothing more nothing less and it makes absolutely no difference to me whether anyone does natural or AI it was simply just a reference to what was said in the past.
I don't watch Brookside(and never have and am not sure if its still on. I think possibly not?). As to a reference of this in the paper, would have taken alot of no notice anyway and was probably not even in the country at the time(been out since 2005).
Everyone needs to be trained at some point whether it be a cow or a pig, otherwise you will learn the hard way, which is the more expensive way.
So Good Luck to you with your AI-ing, I see no good reason why it should go well(unless of course you don't use a boar infront of your sow!) ;)
PS Was Anna Friel the Lesbian of which you speak?
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Hi Karen :wave:
Cannot comment on the bleeding thing - have used AI but only on Sows. We use the screw tip and have had not problem.
Hope you don't mind but I am interested in what Berkshire semen you ordered from Deerpark. I have a sow about to farrow :-\ if she feels like it - we used the Lassiter boar semen on her as we have read from the bloodline survey that this is becoming rare. So quite excited to see what our Excelsa sow produces. Last time she had the "Orlando" and produced 17 of which 4 were stillborn :(. The litter was the best - crackers :pig: We have kept one of the Orlando boars he has already been in action and 4 of the gilts from that litter have been sold for breeding. We used the Nama Abel semen on our Farewell sow and had a reasonable litter - no lookers but extremely healthy and have been sold for meat. Cannot wait to meet the "Lassiters" :)
We bought our first Berkshire 3 years ago and she was in pig to a pietrain pic below. Good litter healthy and we sold all 10 - however one of our customers let their Berk x pietrain weaners run on a couple of months and they had a lot of fat when slaughtered - not sure what the pietrain did as I thought that would be a lean influence ??? However my French farmer who also had two said they were the best tender pork he had ever eaten - praised indeed.
Now- just as it happens we have waiting in the wings a Tamworth who is in pig with our Berkshire so i am truly excited to see what she will produce. I believe this is quite a popular cross in NZ. i don't know but have a good feeling about the Tamworth x Berkshire.
Anyway Karen I am a bit of a bloodline anorak here in France and would love to know what Berkshires you have and what semen you have used.
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Hi Nelson :wave:
No worries - I'm a bit of a bloodline anorak too ;)
She's an Excelsa and it's Nama Abel semen from Deerpark. It'll be interesting to see how many 'lookers' I get from the litter (I hope for at least 1 :-\) Was the Lassiter and Orlando done via AI ? I don't know if Deerpark have a choice or if it's just the Nama Abel ??? Will need to enquire further I think ;) I'll also need to get my finger out and join the Berkshire Breeders Club to try and find some contacts hopefully a bit nearer to me too.
Interesting about the Pietrain cross. I know a man who breeds them and can't get any fat onto them at all, but I have heard that the Berkshires are prone to fat after pork size - maybe overfeeding in the latter stages of finishing ? My wee Berkshire was shown recently (and won 3rd overall for Best in Show ;D) but the judge commented that she was a bit lean :-\ Now it seems like the rock and the hard place scenario ??? Want them fit and well for breeding purposes, yet he seems to disagree :-[
I think a Tamworth gilt/sow to a Berkshire boar would be fine (being that Tamworths are bigger pigs anyway) but don't know how the Tamworth boar would do on the Berkshire gilt :-\
Definately loads to think about !
Karen x
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Hi Karen :wave:
The "Lassiters" were born yesterday - we AI our sow back in February with 1 bottle of semen. It was a bit hit and miss. We had 9 nine healthy piglets. She is such a trooper. The Lassiter bloodline is a new addition to the 'nama abel' and 'orlando' at Deerpark. Have to say there are some crackers there ;D but then I would. ;)
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Oh, there are some crackers - I agree ;) ;D
Thanks for the info - I may enquire about the Lassiter sperm if this batch hasn't worked. Hope your piglets continue to thrive !
Thanks,
Karen :wave:
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Just want to do a PS :o went to the market this morning came back later and checked on piglets - more afterbirth and another 2 piglets :o - we thought we had two afterbirths but clearly not ??? ??? Mum is really tired now but feeding the 11 okay - I just hope there is some of the early goodness in the milk for the latecomers.
Yours forever learning
Nelson :wave: