The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: Hatty on June 01, 2011, 07:36:06 am
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:goat: I was sure I had seen something recently about the national trust using goats to clear ivy from a site in the south west somewhere, so I started to search online as I wanted to show the OH
I didn't find the stuff I was looking for but came across these two articles both of which shocked me.
needless to say I WON'T be renewing my membership this year!!!!! So here you have it goat owners if your goats :goat: keep escaping shoot them!
I know these are oldish but I had no idea
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1560436.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1560436.ece)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/3565705/National-Trust-row-over-goat-cull-on-Snowdonia.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/3565705/National-Trust-row-over-goat-cull-on-Snowdonia.html)
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If they were destined for the abattoir anyway, the NT extended their lives, so what's the problem? They were humanely destroyed. But a headline saying "National Trust tries really hard to find homes for goats" doean't get as much reaction. Remember, the papers aren't there to report the news, they're there to sell newspapers. All of them.
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This is where goats are famously used in the south west to keep the ivy and weeds under control http://www.visitcheddar.co.uk/greatfamilydaysout-3milewalk.html (http://www.visitcheddar.co.uk/greatfamilydaysout-3milewalk.html)
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Sounds good! Can anybody lend me a goat for a week or two? ;D
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If they were destined for the abattoir anyway, the NT extended their lives, so what's the problem? They were humanely destroyed.
Not so much the Studland ones that bothered me I can see that they were there to do a job, even though a bit harsh shooting them, it was the second link about the feral/wild goats in Snowdonia
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This is where goats are famously used in the south west to keep the ivy and weeds under control http://www.visitcheddar.co.uk/greatfamilydaysout-3milewalk.html (http://www.visitcheddar.co.uk/greatfamilydaysout-3milewalk.html)
Really interesting but not the one I was looking for they were using BT wethers and using them to clear ivy from stone buildings some sort of military site WW1 or WW2 not sure which
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The National Trust and other so called "conservation groups" do this regularly,ask The Feral Goat Society.It seems goats are fare game yet Gawd forbid they cull any other livestock.They are happy to forever talk about reintroducing wolves and beavers on the TV but when it comes to slaughtering to extinction the animals we already have the camera's point into the other direction ::)
http://www.britishferalgoat.org.uk/ (http://www.britishferalgoat.org.uk/)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/British-Feral-Goat-Research-Group/128962910497814?sk=wall# (https://www.facebook.com/pages/British-Feral-Goat-Research-Group/128962910497814?sk=wall#)!/pages/British-Feral-Goat-Research-Group/128962910497814?sk=info
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What gets me is why they couldn't do the same as the new forest do with ponies! round up some of the goats now and again and auction off to private buyers? i know some would go for meat like this but at least its not as bad as being shot on the hillside!! ??? the NT would get some money back through it to use on 'conservation' projects and im sure the public and goat clubs/societies would be happier that the goats we're given a chance to find some good homes.......just an idea! ;)
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Sounds like a pretty sensible idea to me - it's exactly what I thought too when I saw the article!
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I had 3 NT properties enquire about selling my goats milk soap in their shops - I don't think so now!! I don't want my products (made from well cared for, loved even goats) being associated with a place that treats them like rusty lawnmowers - once their work is over they are on the scrap heap.
Its not so much the fact they were culled, but how it was done. Goats are a prey animal and seeing their herdmates hunted down will have been very stressful I feel, not humane at all.
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Have any of us told the NT what we think and why? I haven't but think I will - they should know how much they've offended people and that it's affecting their sales/membership/sourcing products.
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Just out of interest, is this culling not comparable to the culling of deer that is commonplace?
I have been to Snowdonia and seen the damage done by overgrazing (by domestic sheep as well as feral goats) :-\
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Just out of interest, is this culling not comparable to the culling of deer that is commonplace?
I have been to Snowdonia and seen the damage done by overgrazing (by domestic sheep as well as feral goats) :-\
While I hear what you are saying, I think (quite probably I am biased!) that goats have a level of intelligence and empathy that quite possibly outweighs that of many other livestock. When I lost my first whether, I saw something that changed how I thought. It was pouring with rain - anyone that knows goats, knows that they will mostly leg it at the first drop of the wet stuff into their shed! - not my boys mum, Avocet. She stood strong next to the vet and I while we did all we could to help her son. Once the vet and I had managed to lift him into the shed between us, and only then, did she come in for cover herself. WHile he died and for hours after she cried over him, literally cried. Now for goats to have witnessed other members of their herds being shot at, possibly fatally injured but not killed outright even, I personally believe this to be stressful and inhumane.
we also keep sheep here - creatures that make me bury my head in my hands each time we attempt a simple procedure such as transferring them from a small pen into a big field and they get all confused and homersimpson like bless 'em.
Perhaps my goats are just pampered and spoiled though :)
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I think, as you say, Plums, it was the way it was done that was the issue.
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What frustrates me is reading Wild goats of UK and Northern Ireland in the 70's and realizing how many herds have been wiped out!Since henmost of those that were left have been destroyed.One daypeple will say "where have the goats gone?" but as it is going on very sneakily no one will notice anyway,the only time they are mentioned is when they want some silly female reporter to run around talking about "BillyGoatsGruff" and showing off her bum as she grabs some terrified goat...and thats oncein a blue moon.
Just watched yet another programme on Keilder and not a word about goats,I watched one on Lundy Ilse last month,again nothing about the goats,neither onthe programme on Scotland or North Devon.
The Bagot was almost wiped outwhile no one was looking thanks to the naturalist PhilDrabble who had the nerve to live in Goat Lodge (named for the Bagots),and go up the wall if anyone tried to shoot his precious deer but when asked what should be done about the last 39 Bagots left in the world said "Shoot them!" >:(
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Plumseverywhere - that's truly heartbreaking. I've never worked with goats, I knew of course that they're clever but....
Mind you, our cattle have a lot more social awareness than we often give credit for. I have a nagging suspicion that we as a species underestimate a lot of animals!
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YorkshireLass - totally agree with you there - love my goats to bits and they are very clever. When I got sheep I probably had the same attitude as most - fluffy field muncher's with no brain - no they are clever and when you know them as individuals not just a flock in a field you get to see their difference, likes and dislikes ect. I think it makes it easier for some to pick up that sunday joint in the supermarket if they're not too smart!
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It must be really distressing for any animal to lose a companion, never mind it being shot while stood beside it. If I did that with excess live stock I'm sure I would get my knuckles rapped by the powers that be, I just think they could have managed it in a better way, maybe someone should tell them about TAS next time they have some livestock they need rid of
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MOD are using goats to clear sites around the Portsmouth and Gosport area on the Palmerston Follys sites :)