The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Bioman on May 22, 2011, 02:25:59 pm
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I bought 2 berkshire weaners earlier this year from a farm that has pigs that win lots of rosettes when showing their pigs. I was suspicious of the weaners I bought as they were scouring a bit but the breeder said that was normal after weaning. Also most of there pigs were indoors on concrete. In hindsight I shouldnt have bought them as I was suspicious of whether the weaners were hardy enough to live outdoors and were scouring a bit to much. I was, sum what taken in by the breeder and because of the rosettes he seemed to be reputable so I took them home, thats when the problems started. I have had vets out 4 times, and one of the weaners dropped dead about a month and a half after we bought them and the other one is going to be put down due to her being incredibly thin, everything i put in it comes out scouring and it has never stopped.
Now I am not saying that all people who show their pigs are un-reputable. Far from it, I have bought pigs from people who show their pigs and had terrific results.
I am just saying that if you are suspicious of the pigs dont buy welfare is the number one thing you should think about. Also pigs that live indoors do not do as well outside, or if you are unlucky like me then you might run up a massive vet bill and have both die.
So be warned
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Such a shame I thought the other was picking up again.
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Really sorry to hear about your experience :(
Hindsight is a wonderful thing so don't beat yourself up about the situation - you did your best and I'm sure the 2 weaners you brought home had a better life for the short time they were with you than they would have had otherwise.
Hope this doesn't put you off
:bouquet:
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bioman what are you you trying to say if you have had pigs before you are not a newbie to pigs if you have doubts why buy you are not a Charity although some of the posters would give the impression they do run Charity's what did the vet say was wrong with them whatever they had you have now got it on your holding and more than likely to transmit to any other pigs you get
i would repudiate your statement that indoor pigs do not do as well outside outside is there natural environment for any pig
are you certain that you have not contributed to there demise(we know of one instance with a pedigree boar weaner 100%perfect when sold mixed with another larger boar on concrete no bigger than a small garage and he complained after the larger one basically humped to its near death) :pig:
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I'm really sorry to hear of your situation Bioman, you've got my sympathies :(
I don't think you can make a judgement based on the amount of rosettes - all that really means is they've shown a pig, on one day, which was better than the rest, it doesn't necessarily equal a good reputation as a breeder or guarentee healthy pigs.
Gut instinct, every time ;) Look at the conditions the pigs are being kept in, see the parents, brothers and sisters from previous litters and ask them about their health status/vet plan - good, reputable breeders will be only too happy to answer (if they've not already volunteered the info). I would also suggest you go back to the breeder you've bought these pigs from and tell them what's happened - they may not be aware (and horrified that this has happened with their pigs) or they may not care (in which case they should be reported to the BPA or trading standards).
I also wouldn't say straight off to be wary of buying pigs that are indoors :-\ My piglets are born inside, stay inside for around a week then go out to the field with mum. However, when I wean them I bring the piglets into the shed. This serves a number of purposes
1) It keeps them out of sight and sound of mum
2) It lets me observe them closely for signs of ill health or problems before they go
3) It lets us get up close and socialise them a bit
4) It's so much easier to catch them in the shed ;) Ever tried catching 8 week old weaners in an acre paddock while the new owners are waiting ? ;D
I would advise any new pig keepers to go either on a personal recommendation from someone who knows what they're talking about or to visit a few breeders and have a look - those with nothing to hide won't mind showing you round and won't put you under any pressure to buy - in fact, they'll probably become a great source of advice and information. A great thing for a newbie to have ;)
Karen x
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The pigs had never been outside so werent sufficently strong to live outside.
Sudanpan I am a relative newbie having only a few pigs before so havent experienced anything like this before. And they were living on their own so there was no mixing with other pigs. Happyhippy I have bought from people before who put them inside like yourself its just keeping them in all there life.
The breeder wasnt recommended to me
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What a rotten thing to happen. I hope that this wont put you off pig keeping. Is there anyone who breeds pigs on AS who is close enough to you?
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Bioman, sorry to hear about that. As a (relative) newbie you would indeed expect that someone who wins prizes knows what they're doing.
So what did the vet say is wrong with them and what did he suggest to stop the scouring?
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If they were scouring, I wouldn't have bought them. Never buy anything that looks less than healthy. I'm sorry for your loss, but you've hopefully learned a big lesson. You didn't have to buy them.
I think you're clutching at straws mentioning the rosettes and indoor/outdoor things, and I think these misleading comments will only serve to confuse or worry those considering buying their first pigs. At the end of the day, buy what looks good and healthy.
I'm not normally as blunt as this, but feel it's necessary here. Good luck with your next pigs.
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any animal that does not look healthy should be left where it is and inform someone about your concerns.
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The vets dont really know what it is having given several antibiotics, wormed them twice, an anti fungal drug. None worked, the vet think that going from indoors to outdoors and poor herd health from the breeder. A brief post mortem on the one which died, didnt showup anything not Pneumonia. Hindsight is a wonderful thing I have more than learnt my lesson.
Having worked on an intensive pig farm and been horrified, I will still keep pigs in the future. Also the meat is incredible!! :pig: :D
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I hope you have more luck next time round.
I would definitely go back to the breeder and explain (complain about) what has happened. Any good breeder will give you a refund or arrange replacement stock. Thank God, nothing like this has ever happened to me, but I am extremely fussy about what I let go from here. If they're not 100%, they stay until they are. I also provide an "after sales" service - anyone can ring or email me for advice. I would expect the same if I were buying in any new stock myself.
I do hope this experience hasn't put you off pigs. No idea where you are, but if you want to send me a pm, I might be able to put you in touch with some good breeders for next time round.
All the best,
Liz
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Hi Liz,
I'm in East Devon.
Peter
www.shutebridge.com (http://www.shutebridge.com)
Breeder of Appenzeller Spitzhaubens (Black and Blue)
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Peter
I have given your dad some info on a lady that can advise if not supply some pigs next time.
I am still trying to get my head round AI for my 2 girls so won't have piglets for a while here.
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Hi Peter :wave:
Just caught up on this thread - what an awful experience you have had, I really feel for you & those 2 little piggies. It's a hard lesson learnt & I've been there too (more than once over the years :-[ ).
It may have been a "one-off" & you should let the breeder know, so hopefully they will look into the health of their breeding stock. But ... there are some really unscrupulous breeders out there (& I'm not just talking pigs here) who have a wall-full of rosettes & certificates & don't give a s**t about the welfare of the animals they keep nor of the stock they sell & the problems faced by the new owners.
I'm sure you'll find some supportive contacts here on TAS down your way who'll recommend where to source your new (healthy) pigletts. Hope all goes well for you in the future.
:love: :pig: :love:
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The vets dont really know what it is having given several antibiotics, wormed them twice, an anti fungal drug. None worked, the vet think that going from indoors to outdoors and poor herd health from the breeder. A brief post mortem on the one which died, didnt showup anything not Pneumonia. Hindsight is a wonderful thing I have more than learnt my lesson.
Having worked on an intensive pig farm and been horrified, I will still keep pigs in the future. Also the meat is incredible!! :pig: :D
I am pretty certain, from what you've said, that the problem your pigs had was PMWS.
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I bought 2 berkshire weaners earlier this year from a farm that has pigs that win lots of rosettes when showing their pigs.
This has happened to us as well with a Berkshire weaner,bred in the same situation as yours and by a show regular. We are experienced pig breeders for many years now and it has never happened to us before, and if it had with anything I had bred I would be as devasted as the new owner!!!.
Day 4 after arrival in seemingly healthy weaner we found her dead in the isolation paddock. I contacted the breeder who not surprisingly just said it had never happened before and was not interested in refunding us. He had our money so why would he!! The pig we purchased on the same day from a different breeder is still fine now a couple of months later. We did have a PM done and it was a congenital heart defect.... he was still not interested!!
I have PM'd you with more details I hope you don't mind but obviously I do not wish to name and get into an altercation with anyone on the forum.
Such a shame as most breeders are responsible sorts!!