The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: loosey on May 12, 2011, 01:21:05 pm
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Any experieinces that you may be able to share?
I've been looking online about using horse manure in our multi fuel burner. It seem's it's possible if not a bit of work but seeing as we have limitless supplies, I'm willing to give it a go! :)
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When I went to the north of India where it is cold and mountains and few trees, the people heated their houses by burning cow dung. As far as I could tell it was well dried and stacked for a year or so. It certainly burnt well and gave good heat. A cow pat is obviously a better shape for drying out than horse manure. The ash was then mixed with composted human manure and spread on the fields.
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Interesting, as I was going to say for me the nutrient value (as manure :P) would be more important, but clearly you can have your cake and eat it ;D. Maybe you have solved the problem of what to do with human waste loosey - burn it. I know we collect gas from it, but the dry matter in little briquettes would be very cute. Would you be drying the muck heap, which would contain shavings or straw, or would this be picked-up droppings?
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I have the option of either ... my horses are bedded on shavings so I have my huge muck heap but I also have the dropping from the summer fields which have been rotting for a year now. I'm trying to work out if it's necessary to press it or if I can just dry it and use in as it is ... kind of looks like coal anyway! If it will work I will be very very happy!!
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You could try the droppings both ways - roundy and flat and see which works best, for drying, storing and using. Keep us all informed - I think you have a great idea :)
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very interesting topic and a controversial one in some aspects dung is just digested vegetation if dried it should be equivalent to peat
having moved several horse dung middens it definitely would need dried
fleecewife on the humane sewage point it used to be dried and pelleted and was supplied to power stations for fuel and supplied to compost firms for in corpoation into yes compost there was so much of it it had to go to land fill and they had to pay for it it is now spread on fields undried and incorporated into the soil(there is one company that does this not far from us) year on year and it does stink :farmer:
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Hi Robert :wave: Yes they do the sewage injection thing round here too and it always oozes back up to the surface - when you see stock grazing next to it you have to wonder about disease and parasite spread, and I certainly wouldn't want to be living right next door to it ........ That's why I thought the dried stuff would be a better option, suitably sterilised first presumably.
So they had a good system for drying and burning human manure in power stations, but they overproduced so now they are using trees and willow biomass and turning them into sawdust to fuel the power stations....meanwhile there is still the problem of where to dispose of all that stinky human product. How mad is that?
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no fleecewife that is not how they do it with this disposal company it comes in tipper lorries (from seafield Edinburgh) couped in a hole in the ground loaded into dump trucks carted over to the point of disposal and tipped in trenches dig a track fill with dung dig another one along side the first the soil from the second covers the first
in the old days Glasgow dung was spread on the fields that is why there is bits of pottery and glass strewn about they also stockpiled it and have reused them for compost and a source of gold and pottery
there have been all manor of ideas of waste disposal the big thing is the cost and pollution
once the people have done there ablution's to there mind that is the end of it :)
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Okay, well I have some collapsable plastic crates so I'm going to use them with concrete blocks on top to make sure I get as much moisture out as poss and then try drying it in my hay barn initially (lots of through draught but nice and dry) Will move to wood store once we've cut this year and let you know how it all goes! The things I've found online are fairly encouraging and as I have 3 wheelbarrows a day it could be a cheap winter next year if it works! I also have some huge piles around the edges of my fields from last year which are well compacted so will go at the with ahand saw and see what I can do! :wave:
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I just wonder if it would work in the same machine as my paper logs.
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ellisr - is it wet paper you put in these machines? Just googles them and you can get them pretty cheap so may invest and give it a go! Can't see any reason why it wouldn't work ??? ;D
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yeah I get shredded paper from work soak it in a bucket over night like paper mache and then stuff the mould full and squeeze the excess out and put on a wire rack that is raised on bricks in a dry airy place. Once they are dry I stack them on slatted shelves in the tack room
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its a great idea, let us kno if it works! does it smell when burnt do u think?
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loosey, it does burn and it doesn't smell (no more than peat anyway)
the most difficult thing though is drying it out, i used the ready made 'coal' dried out over the summer, shelved with plenty of space between each 'nuggut' on a metal shelved cage, take care to move it in out of the rain though.
the paper log makers, in my opinion are difficult to use especially if you have straw bedding.
i've already started stacking 'coals' for next winter only using the 'coals' though as the wet bedding takes too long to dry and makes for better compost !
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Oh well I will have to collect the coal shaped one fron the field and dry I am willing to give it a go as fuel is getting very expensive now.
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I have plenty of piles of just poo woth no bedding so may give the log maker a go and see if it works. Me and my OH were inspecting the "potato poohs" as we call them and wondering if we could use it as coal ... will get some of these drying out too I think!
Juno - how long do you dry them for before you use them?
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all dependent on the weather but rule of thumb wait until they break up easily in the hand :yum: (the scientific level is less than 7% moisture) once dry i then stored in my outhouse in bags off the floor
what i want is someone to build me a machine that will shred and then squish into brickettes
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I'm a lot less squeamish about it than my OH, being that I've hands my hands in poo since I can remember! Do you use other fuel alongside it and does it give off enough heat would you say? I have the day off tomorrow so will get to work! :)
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Any experieinces that you may be able to share?
I've been looking online about using horse manure in our multi fuel burner. It seem's it's possible if not a bit of work but seeing as we have limitless supplies, I'm willing to give it a go! :)
Ye gods you'll stink the area out for 15 miles down wind if you do burn it... might even get some beared sandal wearer or potential ex townie complaining they can't eat their nut cutlets because of the stink when they press the local council to prosecute you for causing a statutory nuisance .
You have said " Horse manure " ..I take it you mean mixed with urine soaked bedding not just neat lifted off the field in a paddock clear up and well dried .
If it is even slightly damp it stinks of very strong horse sweat and pee , burning it produces enough moisture to activate things .
I've used bone dry cow pat in my smoker for bees when I ran out of my normal fuel ( used to run 50 hives plus 40 neuc boxes ) and even that smoke was still slightly damp , ammoniated / urineated as well as very herbal .
In 1995 I tried to burn a massive heap of rabbit muck and bedding out in the field in stages that was there in place when I moved to my last small holding .. I got a visit from the environmental health because of complaints from several people well over 1 3/4 mile down wind .. I had to put it out there and then or face prosecution as it was on a stop right now nuisance notice . I used my big hot water pressure washer to put it out and boy did it stink until it was cool.
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Any experieinces that you may be able to share?
I've been looking online about using horse manure in our multi fuel burner. It seem's it's possible if not a bit of work but seeing as we have limitless supplies, I'm willing to give it a go! :)
Ye gods you'll stink the area out for 15 miles down wind if you do burn it... might even get some beared sandal wearer or potential ex townie complaining they can't eat their nut cutlets because of the stink when they press the local council to prosecute you for causing a statutory nuisance .
But horse nmanure has no smell when it's properly dried out ::) I know that for a fact because I was at Rosemary and Dan's on Saturday and we spoke about using it for fuel, and we smelt the dung from her ponies.
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Think your olfactory organ meed a revamp ;) ... it always smells even ten year old composted stuff .
Do you own or have close associatioin with horses by any chance ... if so ..... it's a bit like a smoker not smelling that other smokers stink as well as themselves ;D .
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It burns, but stinks like hell.
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Have you folks considered Anaerobic Digestion (AD) to produce biogas? More complicated to set up but much better when operational as you get controllable, storable flammable gas and fertilizer out of it. Some bedtime reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_digestion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_digestion)
http://www.small-farm-permaculture-and-sustainable-living.com/methane_generator.html (http://www.small-farm-permaculture-and-sustainable-living.com/methane_generator.html)
http://alternative-car-fuels.com/diy-biogas/ (http://alternative-car-fuels.com/diy-biogas/)
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;D ;D if you just burn the poo once dry it has no real smell i use if along side wood/logs, my chickens love the ash too.
I have to agree though the wet stuff/bedding is better rotted down as compost as the wee does really smell and if it started rotting its even worse.
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;D ;D if you just burn the poo once dry it has no real smell i use if along side wood/logs, my chickens love the ash too.
Thanks, Juno. I know that teh stuff at Rosemary's didn't smell - I don't live near horses, I don't have any, and there's nothing wrong with my sense of smell - but I wonder if any residual smell is related to what the horses are fed? ??? ???
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A women we know in Devilla Forest burns her horse bedding and poo all the time and it actualy smells nice!!!!!!!!!!!!
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No Plantoid, as I say, it is not mixed with any bedding at all, just pure poop! ;D
I burnt some of the "potato poos" last night ... they obviously didn't last that long as as they were not pressed and were bone dry but they didn't half go! Managed to heat enough hot water for two showers and a big load of dishes from it and no smell whatsoever ... if anything, it smelt nicer than burning wood or coal! :wave:
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The lady I met always has a wood burner going in a shed type thing and we often say as we pass, how nice it smells, we stopped to chat with her one day and she said it was horse poo!! Yes, it did smell nice too, maybe it is dependant of what the horses are fed, I know thats the case with humas :o, after a spicy hot curry the "droppings" are not nice ::)
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woo hoo Loosey ;D ;D
my ponies are kept as 'au natual' as possible but i have found winter poos, due to the fact they get extra feed, smell different, sweeter, it must be something in the feed (woundn't like to feed them curry OMG)
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Maybe you have solved the problem of what to do with human waste loosey - burn it.
There was a project in Scotland which was in effect going to be a power station fuelled by sewage, an excellent idea I thought, but last I heard it had fallen foul of EU regulations
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Mine are pretty much just on grass right now with a very small feed for the oldies supplements. In the winter I feed cherry chaff ... mmmmm ... might leave the woodburner doors open then!! ;) ;D
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OK gotcha your using only pure well dried horse muck on it's own as a fuel ...
Thought .....
Set up a shed of removable chicken wire racks load up from the top and work your way down .
install homemade stove with a long internal flue pipe to use as much heat as p[ossible made from a gas cyl ( ebay ? if you don't posess the skills ) .. turn the store into a quality drying shed ... store fully dried fuel in poly feed bags & seal them up for winter use a bit of fuel to work the dryer .. use the rest in the home if as you say it does not smell offensive but sweet herbal ( perhaps like the cow pat I used in my bee smoker )
It would be a good way to prevent " Pony sickness & worms etc " from using contaminated ground , like has been said the ash may be a good fertilizer holding potash as well .
additional thought .. keep an eye on the flue pipe for tar residue Not sure if you will get it . Use " scoot or imp " to clear it .
T hat warmed damp but drying air .. duct it to through a heat exchanger set of pipes in a big box & blow the clean warmed air it into a poly tunnel and see if it is any good for winter heating /crop growing.
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I had a thought on drying logs the other day, collect some shopping trolly's and fill them and roll them into a shelter and wheel them out when needed!!!!! (I had a few trollies in an old house once as I lived near to a major supermarket,,I did wheel them all back one sunday morning)
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Some linky-links for you
http://www.equinecompare.co.uk/docs/BurnHorseManure (http://www.equinecompare.co.uk/docs/BurnHorseManure)
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/horse-manure-fuel.html (http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/horse-manure-fuel.html)
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/hooker87.html (http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/hooker87.html)
We keep meaning to try this never get round to doing tho ::)
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I use an old bread rack trolley on wheels and find on good sunny days it drys really quickly, but when its damp it does suck moisture into it (like a sponge)
Plantoid you lost me .... im only allowed a philips screw driver ::) so may need to get a man in ;) ;)
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I use an old bread rack trolley on wheels and find on good sunny days it drys really quickly, but when its damp it does suck moisture into it (like a sponge)
Plantoid you lost me .... im only allowed a philips screw driver ::) so may need to get a man in ;) ;)
First find your man with a hot flame & the right sized tools :love: ;) then google " gas bottle stove" or " home made gas bottle stove ".. or go on youtube and enter similar names .. there are zillions just watch out for the safety stuff .
Don't use Calor bottles .... that's stealing , use a company that does not have a returns policy ..here we use West Wales Gas as they are one way sales.
Just had a though or two about making the bricks .. to get a really solid brick of muck that will burn for ages I'd consider obtaining a 2 foot length of hollow square tube which has a wall thicknes of about 8 mm . Drill a retaining pin hole at one end to take a 1/2 inch pin , slide in a fabricated end stop .
When tube is full of plop use a car jack retained in some heavy chain to jack another fabricated end stop up the tube to compress the muck to about 6 inches or so long ( say giving it wellie with a two tonne bottle jack ).
Leave it for an hour or so for the brick to compact and lose any liquids it is able to lose and then ease off the jack , remove the pinned end stop and jack out the heavily compressed block of potential fuel .
Now place the block on the drying rack for a week or so ( perhaps checking the weight loss of a fully dried block ) then seal it in a reuseable poly bag to keep it dry till needed .
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First find your man with a hot flame & the right sized tools
Thanks Plantoid I think I will stick to the above advice and see how we go :wave: