The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: fifixx on May 08, 2011, 06:16:05 pm
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One of the triplet born 4 weeks ago is scouring I think. All I could see was some light coloured poo on her bottom but he is also standing with a hunch and seems a bit listless. I think that it may be because I am giving them a bit more concentrate and I have been putting in lots of branches for them to eat before going out into the field this week.
I am going to separate the group, take his temperature and try and stop him having any concentrate for 24/36 hrs and perhaps try a bit of bottle feeding (not very successful last time I tried!)
Does this sound right? I read that they need to have plenty of fluids - but how and what can I give?
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Is he mainly getting milk? From his mum or a bottle?
I think I'd cut out the concentrates and branches and just give him milk, water and hay for now.
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Hello,
I had a kid that was very similar a few weeks ago. Given that I couldn't vouch for their previous vaccines (hadn't clue even if they had been wormed!) I drenched them for Coccidiosis and wormed them. They had just been weaned an were on a small amount of concentrate plus Hay and water. Overnight the difference was incredible, Wall jumping, playful, coats were lying flat again and no scours.
I'm new to all this so please don't take my word as gospel but thought you might like to know someone else's experience.
Hope he gets better soon.
McR
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His temp was 38.8. I have put him and the mum in a separate pen with clean straw, water and plenty of hay. As there are 3 of them, he might not have been getting his fair share of milk, so this will give him a couple of hours to catch up. I'll bring the other 2 in for the night with the mum.
I read somewhere that kaolin was good for scours - anyone agree?
I am organic so no automatic worming / vaccination etc - in fact the vet agrees and says to just do worm counts and treat if necessary.
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our first kid had a runny bum with yellow poo when she was a week old. lasted about half a week. i just thot it was her mums milk comng thru and that was normal. did i miss something there?
iv got kaolin powder, since the piglets had a runny bum when they changed brands of pig food last year. never used it tho but its supposed to work. not expensive.
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I would actually not feed milk until the scour cleared, only on Lectade or similar, you can make your own from water (about 1 ltr, boiled and cooled, can also be camomile tea) honey (2 tablespoons, but not sugar) and salt (1/2 teaspoon) and baking soda (1/4 teaspoon). Have got the quantities somewhere. It could be caused by too much (possibly damp) greenery too soon after milk. Especially if they are bottle fed.
But watch out for scour going black, that could be cocci.
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Hi,
When we have goats with diarrhoea we drench them with "white medicine" from our vets - which I understand is kaolin an morphine - twice a day for 2 days - feed only hay and give a water made up with a calf rehydration sachet in a bucket or drench them with it if in doubt.
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DO NOT GIVE KAOLIN TO 3 week old kid..... can cause death. Only a Vet can take that responsibility.
From your description, that kid is getting TOO much milk. Separate out from mother completley & give only boiled cooled water for 24 hrs. Have hay available, NO concentrates.... they can't digest them anyway properly at the 3 weeks, the rumen is only just reaching working ability !!
As McRennet said, the results will be quick.
Kids 'poo' should remain orangey in colour until they are digesting food properly when it will turn darker.
MILK is your problem.
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thanks for all the info - how do I "drench"? syringe it in the mouth? i don't have a drench gun...
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Yeh, syringe in mouth is fine :)
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Make sure that the syringe goes down the side of the mouth...IMPORTANT.. as the water will go into the lungs as the kid is not used to bottle feeding. Just do it very slowly giving a chance to swallow... keep a check that cwallowing IS taking place. I have known kids hold the liquid and then choke on it !!!!!
If any water goes down the wind pipe,.... kid starts coughing etc... hold upside down for a very short while so that it can be coughed up.
In actual fact, as the kid has been feeding off mother, it could go 24 hrs without any further intake of liquid... it will not die.... but could then be very interested in considering a bottle. This might be better than a struggle which are usually non productive.
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Yes I have put kids onto the bottle that way, similar problem, but kids were a bit older. But you then have to start milking out the nanny immediately, otherwise she will reduce/get mastitis/ or you don't have any milk for yourself/to feed to the kid once it is better.
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The kid is definitely perkier, but still has his tail down. No noticeable diarrhoea in the pen. He is nibbling hay all the time. I think I'll keep my eye on him for the next 24 hours....
By the way - I was going to put them all out in the field today - I've decided not to, but will it be OK in a day or two presuming he gets better?
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I would be leaving it for quite a few days to make sure he is really over it. Otherwise you be back to square one. Also it will complete the weaning from mum with a longer break.
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Can I just ask..at what age do you stop calling a kid, a kid? Is it when its weaned or when its a certain age?
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12 months old officially !
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He seems a bit better still. But tail down still with an occasional perk-up! Presumably the slight hunch and tail-down are the discomfort? Poo is back to dark brown as before. I am going to give him a squirt of Anke's recipe using a syringe in the side of the mouth. (If I just put it in a bowl, wouldn't he hoover it up as it will be sweetish?)
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Glad he seems better - yes, the tail down and hunch are cos he's uncomfortable.
You could always try feeding it in a bowl......mind you, this is goats we're talking about, when did they do what was required of them without fuss ;)
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Ha - gave him 3 small syringe full of water, salt, honey, bicarb - no probs. Left the bowl on the floor as had made too much and the mum slurped it up as if it was champagne!
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He would only take it from a bowl if he was already drinking water or normally being pan-fed. I am still struggling to get my 9-week old kids to drink water from the bucket (they are taking hay and creep readily now, but absolutley refuse to drink water! They still get about 2ltrs of milk a day)
PS.: Mum would like it because of the honey in it.
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Monday morning report: much the same! Nibbling all the time at hay, still a bit hunched and tail down but happy to moan that he is not getting any food! Am going to put him out of the pen and leave mum and other 2 in there, give him water and check a bit later on. How often should he have water and how much?
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It will take him a couple of days to get over this upset, but I did it to one of mine just a couple of weeks ago - every two hours for the first day (when he had to be forced to take it, but I did not get up during the night) and then every 4 hours for another couple of days, when he was starting to take it from the bottle.
Just check that he is pee-ing and watch for any jucky stuff at his backend. His temperature is back to normal?
PS.: Is it not Tuesday today???
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Whoops, on account of too much tequila intake on Sat night, my days are still a bit out of synch! yes - tuesday!
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Will he drink water from a bowl. If so, clean water ad lib. If you have to bottle him with it, little and as often as poss.
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He is hungry! I am going to try a bit of milk in a bottle this evening - is it too soon? poo is normal, tail up and down, still slightly hunchy. He managed to leap over a hurdle to get back in with the others!!
He is still eating hay but is definitely smaller than his 2 sisters.
Homeopathic remedy arrived this afternoon so trying everything....
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I'd try him on a bottle and see how he goes - he's had a couple of days off milk now :-*
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I googled "hunched goat" and came across this http://goatbeat.net/index.php?topic=4397.0 (http://goatbeat.net/index.php?topic=4397.0)
Exactly like mine.
I just tried to bottlefeed him and got a tablespoon or so in! He very violently protested, wriggled and butted - but I persisted! I will try and catch some poo tomorrow and take it to the vet - it is just like the older goats - maybe too hard? the article mentions yoghurt and probiotics - any ones or do they have to be specific to goats? I have some powder which I take daily - "The lactic bacteria contained in Threelac are Lactobacillus Sporogenes, Bacillus Subtilis and Streptococcus Faecalis" would this be appropriate?
I'll call the vet for a telephone chat tomorrow morning just in case.
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Yoghurt wouldn't do any harm, but he will take a few days to get used to eating/drinking again. Persist with small amounts as often as you manage. I would stay clear of greenery and concnetrate for a few more days though. If not enough milk continue to give water. Or some camomile tea with some honey.
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Woo hoo - success with the bottle - 100ml - not much, but he actually sucked....whew!
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We use Kaolin and morphine if the goats scour. But as Wytsend said- be very careful with very young kids. You can get from the chemist, but they are reluctant to sell it as obviously it has got morphine in it, and they think you are addicted to it! Our chemist knows what we use it for and is quite good about selling it us. The morphine is good as in an older goat if they have a sore stomach with scouring, then the morphine relieves the pain too.
But always go carefully with it. Its just as bad ending up with a contipasted kid.
Hope the wee one is better.
Beth
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after a good week, bottlefeeding Ok, he has gone "hunchy" again and seems a bit spaced out. Have called the vet for advice.
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You probably will just have to go back to the same routine, if he has no temperature. If he has a fever, and antibiotic/anti-inflammatory may just be wise.
Once he is better I would reduce his milk gradually and encourage him eating hay/creep or similar (slowly on the creep). You may just be better weaning this one fairly early and keep him mainly on hay. Watch for damp grass while he is on milk.
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Vet is giving me an injection for his gut and has suggested that less milk might be better - just give him the choice if he is eating hay and grass OK. Poor old Hunchy - especially for having got himself that nickname!
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Well better than my two wethers, being raised for the freezer they don't really get names- so they are billyboy and billy2...