The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: plumseverywhere on April 22, 2011, 06:16:14 pm
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We are considering (well pretty much decided on) buying a landrover next summer. Hubby has asked me to research pro's and con's of both the discovery and the defender. Either way, this would be a very second hand vehicle but I would want something that is good for the following-
1)school run in the ice - our drive is a 40 degree gradiant and we can't get out in winter
2)something that can seat 7 people comfortably but still have some boot room
3)good for attaching a trailor for livestock
4)least thirsty on petrol
5)least high on car insurance
6)easy for a girl with weedy arms to manouvre (ie.power steering lol)
I think that's it :)
so was wondering if any disco/defender owners or former owners or those who've testdriven could share any tips with me please?
thank you in advance, Lisa
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on all points the disco gets my vote and i love defenders
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Either will do it. The defender will do it in more style, and the disco in more comfort (but I would say that, wouldn't I!).
You're likely to get more disco for your money, but with both models be very wary of rust if buying an older model. I found various buyers guides online when I was first looking, so do have a search. One thing for a test drive is not only to check the steering load, but also how heavy the clutch is, as this can be an issue for some....
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Not to throw a cat amongst the pigeons, but I looked back at the 4X4 thread when we "were" going to buy one, I just love the big Landrover defender and one day I hope to get one, we spoke to someone in the know and he said, take a look at the military in places where they need a reliable car and see what they all have, I now note on news programmes and its often a Mitsubishi!!!!!
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If you've never owned a disco or defender before go out and test drive a few. You might find you don't like them. If you need seven seats you're really ruling out a 90 as though they can technically have seven they are really cramped and once all the seats are full there'll be no room to swing even a very small cat. So it's either a 110 or a disco. Performance is similar on and off road with the diesel disco being probably slightly better on fuel due to taller gearing. If you do any significant road mileage a defender can be very tiring due to the not particularly comfortable seating, the noise, and the stiffish ride when not loaded up to make the springs work properly. Discos however are very comfortable for long trips and much quieter. You'll also get more toys like electric windows etc on a disco generally speaking. The real deciding factor will be the price. You will find a much newer and better looked after discovery pound for pound compared to defenders. Even rotten old things fetch high prices. The advantage is that they are a lot easier to fix than discos due to the better access to all the bits that break or just drop off due to rust. Defenders can always be fixed however an old disco with terminal rust will not be economical to repair. I've owned several of both over many years and I'm totally hooked on landies but I will say it pays to have a bit of an aptitude for fixing things.
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I've had a range of Landrovers over the years, too, including a v8 Discovery. Great motor - goes anywhere, like any true Landrover, and comfy seats as well.
If there's a loud klonk when changing gear it means the gearbox needs reconditioning - the final output shaft gear wears the shaft splines unless the later version has been fitted.
Haven't owned a Defender but I have had Series Landies. Very capable but much more 'spit and sawdust'.
If you expect to do any amount of road driving then go for the Disco. If it's mostly local or off-road then the Defender is king.
Petrol Discos are very cheap now due to their thirsty engines. Diesels more expensive.
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I am on my second Disco and have loved both (original was a 200 and this an 02 TD5).
Don't look at the newer model Discos that look like boxes and have no spare wheel on the boot - they're almost all automatics now, very school run oriented and so electronic ridden that you need the computer to drive for you aswell as diagnose everything..
But get a diesel one, both mine have been and they're expensive to fill but a petrol one would fill twice as often and I love its smoothness on the motorways aswell as its reliability on farm tracks with potholes and the odd field gateway :)
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are you hooked on a landy? fine vehicles, but if you want practicality combined with comfort in an older vehicle then perhaps consider a trooper, or a pajero, or a land cruiser. they are cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, and you get more toys for your money, ie electric windows, better heaters etc.
i myself run a 1988 pajero, it is very much a work horse, but also my daily driver. it never lets me down.
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Thanks for all the replies :) I did sort of have my mind set on a landrover but would consider anything of a similar style if it ticked all the boxes.
7 seats is essential as we have 4 children, all at an age where friends come home from school so I need to be able to fit not only the 6 of us but occasionally a couple of tiddlers too.
Hubby and I not so good at tinkering under engines so will have to put some thought into that point.
Have heard good things about pajero's before tazbabe. I need to do some more research into 4x4's that have 7 seats now.
thanks
lisa
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If there's a loud klonk when changing gear it means the gearbox needs reconditioning - the final output shaft gear wears the shaft splines unless the later version has been fitted.
Not necessarily. There could be any number of other causes of clunking, worn bushes, propshaft, A-frame ball joint, diffs, halfshafts, drive members, etc, all relatively easy and cheap fixes.
Another thing about landies is that they are easy to repair and parts are cheap and readily available. Not something the japanese imitators can claim really. And please don't anyone tell me that jap vehicles never go wrong.
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I have had an automatic diesel engined Toyota Landcruiser for the last 3 years and think it is very good.
I would recommend a Landcruiser Colorado with a 3 litre diesel engine, automatic gearbox and 7 seats, something like this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201116385126378/sort/priceasc/usedcars/model/landcruiser/make/toyota/radius/1501/postcode/ip256lg/page/2/quicksearch/true?logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201116385126378/sort/priceasc/usedcars/model/landcruiser/make/toyota/radius/1501/postcode/ip256lg/page/2/quicksearch/true?logcode=p)
If you can afford a later one with the D-4D engine you will get better performance and fuel consumption but think in terms of around 30mpg, very comfortable motoring (it's not a sports car but very well insulated and easy to drive). It should be good for more than 250,000 miles if treated reasonably. The automatic gearbox is very good, easy driving, good for towing and not hard work.
None of these cars can be used like a racing car and they use more fuel than a small saloon.
Fit the car with good A/T (all terrain) tyres rather than the road use tyres most are fitted with when new. Mine has Yokohama Geolander tyres which work well both on and off road. Some of the off road tyres are noisy on tarmac and don't grip well on wet roads so avoid the cheapest brands.
Look at films of the UN operations round the world and you will see Toyota Landcruisers.
As the Australians say:
"A Land Rover will take you into the outback, but a Landcruiser will bring you back!"
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THanks for the link Norfolk Newby - I REALLY like that!! will show hubby when he gets home, he'll appreciate the Oz link (being of australian citizenship and only me refusing to move there has kept him in Blighty!)
Spare key, always useful in our house LOL.
Will be selling an MGF - a throwback from my days pre-farming so hopefully will have some money to go towards it but that link'smodel is in our price range. fab :)
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What a can of worms you opened! Well, my two pennorth worth. I have had Series Landies for years, last was a 110. Dont touch petrol, early Discos are a waste of money, unreliable and spares are silly money and yes, I dont think they are proper Landies. Two many gizmoes. Try a surplus site for an ex military Wolf, avoid army machines, they are trashed, go for an ex air force one, it will have been on an airfield doing "light duties".
I dont touch 4x4s now, but if I were to get another it would be a Landcruiser, Shogun or Jeep. Some older Jeeps are well worth the money, spares cheap and they have only been used in north London climbing kerbs on school runs. Jeeps tend to have good diesel consumption too, something thats a joke with a Disco. :farmer:
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I've just killed my Disco after numerous years of true abuse. I am now saving for another as I love them and they pull livestock trailers and my horse no problem they will pull all day but be careful as some there rear seat are not legal anymore
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Ive got a pajero to,1993 lwb 2.5 turbo diesel, its an amazing car i never normally keep a car over 2 years but ive now had this for 6 years and its still going strong,when we bought it it had only had 2 previous owners in japan and we were the first keepers in this country plus it had only done 30,000 mile when we got it,its brillant to tow with plus the 2 seats in the boot are forward facing and can be put up or down to suit,good in ice and snow as well,it only ever broke 3 times first 2 times were OH fault when he petrol in instead of diesel,last time was at xmas when starter motor went but got a new one off internet for £120.
It is automatic though which i know some people dont like,this was my first auto and now love it.
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....... but be careful as some there rear seat are not legal anymore........
Ohwa, not heard of this - which Discovery model, which type of rear seat - and why?
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Side facing seats are not legal anymore to manufacture, just as bumper bars are not plus a whole lot of other stuff under eu law
I wouldnt be surprised if they ban anything on a chassis in the next few years because or 'health and safety' fears.
I'd personally buy anything that has a 'utility' vehicle stamp on it as its less road tax and you can completely write off the initial expense against your taxes.
Disco's are not normally classed as work vehicles whereas the majority of defenders are depending on the window layout.
You could however charge 'the business' 40p a mile for owning something personally rather than on the business side - I think the upper limit is around 5 grand a year now.
I only have another 2 months to wait for my land rover 110 double cab in black - I cant wait :) - I am buying from new as the trade in value after 3 years is roughly only going to loose me about the same as it would servicing and MOT'ing a second hand one - land rovers keep their value.
Baz
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Its summat to do with carrying more than 7 passengers. You need a PSV license as its classed as a minibus. If you have a big family of course, you have to shuttle them six at a time or face ten years in the Health and Safety gulag facing an EU re education programme. Your kids are taken into care because you are a bad parent, never to be seen again until adulthood when you find them on Facebook.
Piggy, you are right about the Pajero, A guy on our shoot has run one for 7 years and never a problem!
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What a can of worms you opened! Well, my two pennorth worth. I have had Series Landies for years, last was a 110. Dont touch petrol, early Discos are a waste of money, unreliable and spares are silly money and yes, I dont think they are proper Landies. Two many gizmoes. Try a surplus site for an ex military Wolf, avoid army machines, they are trashed, go for an ex air force one, it will have been on an airfield doing "light duties".
I dont touch 4x4s now, but if I were to get another it would be a Landcruiser, Shogun or Jeep. Some older Jeeps are well worth the money, spares cheap and they have only been used in north London climbing kerbs on school runs. Jeeps tend to have good diesel consumption too, something thats a joke with a Disco. :farmer:
I've also had Series Landies for 24 years now, and still have a couple. However for my daily transport and tow vehicle I went for a Jeep Grand Cherokee, with the 2.7 Mercedes diesel engine. It's fast, comfortable, pulls 3.5 tons, and doesn't suffer from premature rusting. It was also much cheaper than an equivalent Disco.
I think they're only automatics however, which is fine with me since I prefer them. However, it's only a five seater.
John
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Its summat to do with carrying more than 7 passengers. You need a PSV license as its classed as a minibus. If you have a big family of course, you have to shuttle them six at a time or face ten years in the Health and Safety gulag facing an EU re education programme. Your kids are taken into care because you are a bad parent, never to be seen again until adulthood when you find them on Facebook.
lol, yep we had a recent run-in as we got a speeding ticket for driving our VW caravelle, 7 seats, at 70mph (we were told as its a 'minibus' we had to stick to 60mph) anyway, hubby ( a health and safety specialist but a no-nonsense one) got written proof from VW specifying its a people carrier, yay! so we got a written apology from west mercia police and its pinned on our office wall now ;D
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lol at Plums! Plod really are pathetic, they dont even know traffic law eh? Trouble is, multiply this incompetence into the rest of the country and we are surrounded by it. I regularly get pulled on my compact for "lighting infringements" I have had four apologies from Norfolk Police and now carry them in the toolbox in case I am pulled again. I also carry a copy of tractor lighting regulations as well. Havnt been pulled for a year now as they must think I am a clever dick.
Dont forget folks, WE are paying their wages!
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Piggy, you are right about the Pajero, A guy on our shoot has run one for 7 years and never a problem!
Yes, the Pajero's solid enough. Don't buy one if you're planning to drive to Spain though - the name translates as "Nissan W*nker"!
Somebody said on another thread that you have to really want to own a landy to make it worthwhile, and I think that's right. I love ours to bits...... which is exactly what it is currently in! ;D
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Ok, I'm a girlie and have/had both. Both TDi's and TD5's. They both have power steering, both tow well, I'd say there isn't much difference in space inside (ok, possibly the Defender 110 has more). If you are using it for the school run and family car, it has to be the Disco. They have more comforts than the Defender and much smoother ride.
I moved my smallholding in the snow, towing a trailer full of sheep no problem. Don't reckon there is much in it for fuel consumption either - they are both thirsty with a capital T. I have a love/hate relationship with my Disco - hate the fuel consumption and cost of maintenance, but love how useful it is. Mine has been reliable by and large (not the same for lots of Landy owners) - I keep threatening to sell it but somehow always need it and it's still here.
ALL Discos leak (get the sunroof sealed) but it is more comfortable than the Defender. So in summary, not quite as cool as a Defender but I'd go for the Discovery....
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Old bird, thank you for your honesty, I know folk all have a view which is why I call this a can of worms. I made the mistake of marrying a softy Londoner and she made me make a choice......... to lose a Series 2 for a woman still hurts. Work saved the day though and she was bought off with her own hatchback for girls, complete with no leaks or draughts. A succession of 110s and Series later I felt renewed.....
The Disco has its merits, but the newer Japanese 4 x4s and particularly Jeeps really are good, then I am a biased un objective old farmer sadly now driving a Ford Fusion and getting 72 mpg. The power of having money in my wallet is what drives this old Tyke nowadays! :farmer:
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Just been for a wander down the lane to a small car dealership, he's got all his car's parked outside so despite being a sunday we can still have a nose.
well, he's got a Red P reg Disco TDi (187000 on clock) wants £2695 and he's got a Blue disco TD5 on a T plate wants just under another grand for that. both manual transmission, rust not obvious, alarmed etc. couldtn' tell milage on 2nd as it was electrical by the looks so would need engine on.
on his website there is a defender too so have emailed and asked for a test drive in one of each to get a feel.
fingers crossed, I'm terrible at making decisions so will be jumping back and forth methinks. colour will probably be the decider (oh, that sounds really shallow now!)
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the p reg check the rear wheel arches when you open the door if it has been repaired or very rusty walk lift the rear carpet if sodden and the floor rusty walk td5 they are even more prone to rust (thinner metal) and the engines are expencive to repair injectors and injector loom defenders also rust the rear crossmembers on all three rot and that is where the towbar fits on if they were all good why did the previous owners part with them :wave:
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thanks for the tips Lillian :wave: will deffo check under mats etc and will be taking Tony with me because he'll be sensible, I am too impulsive (hence having an MGF that needs selling, a project house that needs re-doing, and too much else to mention LOL)
am hoping that old owners have sold so they can buy newer models?! eek.
oh and can anyone explain difference between 'tdi' and 'td5' please? i know the turbo diesel bit (and i is injection) but how do they differ? can't find any info on google at the moment to differentiate.
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tdi is 4 cyl td5 is 5 cyl the more modern the more expensive to repair you get tdi200 and tdi 300 they all have problems some are easy fix others not so even concider the range rover classic cheaper they are all just big mecano kits and dont be affraid to get them up on ramps and poke with screwdriver they all rot from the gearbox back some more than others southeren cars dont rust the same as northern cars they are brilliant motors i have had 6 classic range rovers 2 td5 autos 3disco v8 autos 2 freelanders petrol 1disco tdv6 and 1 range rover sport tdv8 the last 2 were new and have crap electronics suspension and tyre wear are also crap the second range rover we owned was the best one of them all have fun testing them and get the best that you can afford they were dear in the winter but they cant shift them now with increased cost of ownership :wave: :wave:
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hadn't thought of a range rover, was assuming that landies were the way forward as we need a 7 seater. if range rovers do a 7 seat one though that sounds interesting. thanks. not sure if cars here are southern or northern as we are midlands so i suppose some of each ;D :wave:
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you can make it into a 7 seater two baby seats bolted together and fixed into the back tight against the back seats perfectly legal when i done mine it was checked out by traffic plod and accepted only you dont have any boot space there are some proffesional conversions out there but few and far betwean beware of scottish ones they are usually crash repaired and vice versa with english ones in scotland :wave: :wave:
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just googled '7 seater range rover' and it came up with a beautiful black model, all shiny and posh...and totally out of price range but, still food for thought - thanks :)
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Range rovers aint to good off road even when (in the newer ones) are in their off road setting, Top gear found that the skoda yeti, is infact a smoother ride
ment to say mine is simply form a passenger point of view ::)
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that is just a generalisation it all comes down to tyre choice the 90/110 are the only ones fitted with decent tyres for offroad use by the factory the old classic range rovers were fitted with the same tyres if you were a true top gear fan you would remember JC going up some mountain with the car fitted with proper offroad tyres and getting there (it was left there because JCwas airlifted of the hillside with keys in pocket) decent tyres= pulling the yeti out :wave:
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Dont forget folks, chunky off road tyres are going to be made illeagle due to noise pollution, bless the EEC for that one, how do they think farmers will cope without them, bloody city livers making the rules for country folk without a thought to the concequences again.
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In your situation I would definately go for a Disco rather than a Defender. The Defender is an out and out work vehicle - temendously puller, but vey low geared, so poor on long runs. Driver comfort is poor - you have to drive with your knees under your chin and you elbows out the windows.
The Disco will tow - it has the same 3.5 ton towing capacity as the Defender, but is higher geared. Your drive sounds pretyy much like ours, and our Disco does it ok. If we have a full trailer on we need to use the low box, but that is not really an issue. Recommend good tyres though as traction can be a problem - but that would apply to any vehicle. The Td5 has traction control which will avoid wheel spinning. As a family vehicle the disco is really good, comfy and roomy and the TD5 has forward facing rear seats with three point seat belts. A great improvement on the old side facing seats.
I have killed on Tdi, and am just about to trade in the current TDi for a TD5. We only have one car - it will do the farm job, and the family job. Hard to beat I think.
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Have had the lot, passed my test in a series 1, currently have a 97 disco tdi, a freelander (no real relation to a landrover) and an RR classic but , and I never thought I would say this,they will be repaced by japanese 4x4s, cheaper, just as reliable and more access to spares,I drive a izuzi bighorn when in NZ and it is superior to my disco