The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: loosey on April 13, 2011, 04:20:25 pm
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I've just been reading about these. I've always wanted a house cow but my OH isn't keen on anymore large livestock (I have a bit of a thing for shire horses! ::)) but got quite iterested when he heard about miniature Dexters.
What are your thoughts? I know nothing much about cattle so am not sure if the sentiments are the same as those regarding micro pigs, or whether they are considered similar to miniature ponies and fairly "normal".
I'm off to do some more googling! :wave: :cow:
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I spoke to Colin (he comes on the forum occasionally when he can use his cousin's computer)yesterday about his - Dexters are smaller than other cattle and quite docile I believe, but he said there were two types - long legged and short legged. I don't know if they are bred separately or if they are the same breed but some turn out shorter than others.
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i have dexters and they are fantastic
any questions just pm me n ill help in any way
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id recommend shetland cows, def short but quite stocky, and no trouble what so ever. very gentle and sweet, and also keep on good condition on just grass and haylage.
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As with all such questions, we each favour our own breed or type.
Check the profile pic - you won't be surprised that I think you would go a long way to beat a Jersey for a house cow. She's small and dainty, light on her feet, and will give you milk for the house on not much more than grass, or a lot of milk if you feed her for it. (Mine rears her own calf and a set-on, gives milk for the house and at the moment also the orphan lambs.)
I have never touched a Dexter but I have heard some people say they can be a bit wild. Others of course have lovely tame ones that behave just like my Jersey ;)
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We don;t currently have the land as we have horses here on livery, but the plan in a couple of years, when we have children is that the liveries (which have helped pay for lots of repairs etc) will leave and we will revert back to a proper smallholding. We have pigs, chickens and ducks here but would be considering a VERY small flock of sheep and a house cow.
Sally ... can she easily be crossed with something that would produce a good beef calf? My mum has always loved Jerseys and I used to work with them a lot :)
I have a bit of thinking to do as we don#t currently have anywhere to milk (a big field shelter with gates might be our only option for this) but I'm hopeful that we can sort something out ;D
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Please consider the Shetland. We have 2 heifers and plan to milk them next year after they calve for the first time. The milk is usually about 5% BF and they produce a good beef carcase, although small. They are the traditional Shetland house cow.
I think Jerseys are lovely too, but the Shetland is a rare breed that needs help to survive, so if helping rare breeds is important to you, please look at the Shetland.
Don't know where you are loosey but you would be very welcome to come and see ours.
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jerseys are gorgeous too but we needed hardy up here.
rosemary, i think yours are 3 months older than ours, when r u planning to do ur ai? :wave:
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I'm in Cornwall Rosemary, so pretty far away!! My OH has lots of family in Scotland so that could be a good excuse to come back with some moo's!
Can they live out all year? That would be my only problem I think ... hvaing to find something that will happily live out ... I presume this shouldn't be an issue for a hardy breed, especially as we would provide a shelter with adequate bedding etc.
I'm a bit frustrated that all this might be a long time away ... I want cows now!!
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Yes, Shetlands will live out all year. Have a look at the Shetland Cattle Breeders Association website for more information www.shetlandcattle.org.uk (http://www.shetlandcattle.org.uk) If you contact the Secretary, Barry Allen, he'll be able to put you in touch with any local breeders.
Also the following link http://www.sac.ac.uk/news/currentnews/shetlandcattle/ (http://www.sac.ac.uk/news/currentnews/shetlandcattle/) is interesting.
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jerseys are gorgeous too but we needed hardy up here.
rosemary, i think yours are 3 months older than ours, when r u planning to do ur ai? :wave:
Ours have just turned a year, so will be ready anytime. I'd like to calve them mid-April next year so I'm sure the grass is growing (or a sure as I can be). I need to make up a timetable - actually, will go and do that now.
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Sally ... can she easily be crossed with something that would produce a good beef calf? My mum has always loved Jerseys and I used to work with them a lot :)
Loosey, yes Jerseys are renown for being able to produce good beef x calves. British Blue x from a Jersey is probably now the norm in dairy herds; it used to be Charollais.
I have been advised to break her in gently with something not too large for the first calf, either a Jersey (hoping for a heifer, unless you want a bullock for your own freezer) or an easy-calving beefy type such as an Angus. 2nd calf Angus, Limousin or similar (I am trying to get a Red Devon x, not sure if the AI has taken yet) and after that Charollais, British Blue - whatever you want.
I don't think you would have any trouble with her living out in Cornwall so long as there is shelter. (Well as long as you are not up on Bodmin Moor or something.) I know of Jerseys who live out all year in Somerset - and have milked same in December in a hand-built field shelter (actually built for goats) by the light of a hurricane lantern!
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my shetlands lived out all winter, wind, snow and everything, they have freerange and use of open barn which they come back to by choice everynight whatever the weather. they are so kind and not any trouble at all. these were our first cows ever and def recommend them. good luck in choosing.
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Right, Sally, square go - Jersey v Shetland. Winner decides what kind of cow loosey gets ;D ;D
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Right, Sally, square go - Jersey v Shetland. Winner decides what kind of cow loosey gets ;D ;D
;D ;D
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the advice is wrong :o jersey beef has yellow fat :( the losses from crossing with large beef types are phenomenal IE dead calves dead cows and both combined the old style Angus was ideal not the Canadian type now produced the other cattle breeds you have to be very cautious (you try squeezing a 16lb baby out ) it can be done BUT you have to restrict the feeding and type of feeding
no experience of Shetlands just jerseys sorry i would not contemplate crossing with the blue either British or otherwise and certainly not from the other continentals by all means try it and find out the hard way funny how nobody mentioned herefords?????????? :wave:
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Haha! I've been doing a lot of research about the Shetlands Rosemary! The selling points for me are ... smaller size, being able to live out, good mum's, nice temperament. These are all really important for me.
I think cows will end up being next years project, having just talked my OH into bringing in the chickens and hopefully sheep this year but I like to have time to plan. I like doing it all slowly so there is more time to sort out our inevitable mistakes! ::) ;D
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not trying to influence u at all ( ::) ::)) but apparently shetlands have wider pelvis so can give birth to a larger xbreed successfully. last year there was a years waiting list for yearling heifers so we got calves instead. i have no knowledge of herefords at all. its all highlands, simmentals and AA's up here locally.
plus apart form being a rare breed, they are triple purpose, ie meat, milk and draft. i thought that was quite cool 8) 8) 8)
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British Blue x from a Jersey is probably now the norm in dairy herds; it used to be Charollais.
If you can find a cow of this cross, that is just the BEST house cow. See my avatar - Rosie, was a BB Jersey cross. Fantastic cow, and crossed back to a beef bull will give a good beef animal.
I would avoid dexters like the plague. Jerseys are OK, but you may get too much milk and they are prone to milk fever. For the novice, a good crossbred is a safe bet.
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jerseys are prone to milk fever only if you over feed them IEconcentrates grass /hay silage and haylage is ok
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I am not sure that feeding some concentrate constitutes overfeeding - I certainly wouldn't expect any of my cows to produce a good yield off grass alone. Some milk, enough to rear a calf, yes, but that would be about all you would get.
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no wrong we had a herd of jerseys if they cannot produce from grass alone they are not very good yielders
just from experiance but then there is grass and grass :wave:
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Yes, that is a good point - our grass is definately grass :( rather that grass ;D. That probably accounts for the need for a bit of cake.
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Just catching up after a busy couple of days ...
I have my own Jersey but this is her first lactation and her calf is pure Jersey (aren't I lucky she's a heifer calf!) - everything I have posted about crossing is information given me by more experienced Jersey people. A neighbour used to have one of the top-performing Jersey herds in the country and she told me that a Jersey will be able to produce a good beef x calf but to take it steady for the first two calves. She liked to use Limousin or Murray Grey for the second calf and then Murray Grey or Charollais for the third and subsequent. I asked her about Hereford and she said the Hereford is not a good cross from a Jersey, the calf's rear end will be too narrow.
I do love the sound of a real triple-purpose breed. The Red Devon used to be such but is now almost entirely suckler. One of the reasons I chose Red Devon for Hillie's second calf was because I have a daydream about reproducing a double if not triple purpose Red Devony type animal.
(Sadly she didn't hold to that AI and when we got them in again it was the relief man and he didn't know where to find the Red Devon semen, so she's now hopefully growing an MRIx calf.)
It sounds like you don't need to be in a rush to choose, loosey - so enjoy the research and the anticipation, and keep us posted!
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the advice is wrong :o jersey beef has yellow fat :( the losses from crossing with large beef types are phenomenal IE dead calves dead cows and both combined the old style Angus was ideal not the Canadian type now produced the other cattle breeds you have to be very cautious (you try squeezing a 16lb baby out ) it can be done BUT you have to restrict the feeding and type of feeding
no experience of Shetlands just jerseys sorry i would not contemplate crossing with the blue either British or otherwise and certainly not from the other continentals by all means try it and find out the hard way funny how nobody mentioned herefords?????????? :wave:
One other reason for crossing a jersey with an easy calving blue (and if you look at genus statistics, BB's are now considered to be an easy calving breed) is that the calf comes out looking more like a BB thana jersey. This is an important point if you want to sell it on as a store - you will get a decent price for a BB cross, but next to nothing for a jersey cross steer.
So look for a bull with an easy calving index and also for a short gestation length - this means the calf will not grow quite so big.
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For the novice, a good crossbred is a safe bet.
thats such a shame. i think if we have such fantastic native purebred cows that are very rare, we should promote them. my shetlands are sooo quiet and we are complete cow beginners, plus if a novice buys registered purebred stock, then changes their mind, they are alot easier to resell. Shetland heifers seem to command a fair price, and if there is a years waiting list, i think it hints at a sound investment. they are alot stockier than we imagined and will be eating the steers in the future. iv never tried the meat, but im sure if its not the best restaurant beef, itl certainly be better than tesco stuff!
the added benefit of buying purebred for novices, is that there are breed societies that offer support and guidance.
oooh i love a good bovine debate... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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how much shorter in the gestation period are you talking about VSS
genetics is a funny thing take for instance the ugly intellectual man that married the the thick beautiful woman intending the children to inherit his intelligence and there mothers stunning good looks what they produced was ugly thick children :o
now as i said before we have done the crossing from jerseys not every time does the calve take after the bull the best was jersey Xhereford crossed again with simmental
the old style Angus when born hit the floor running compared to the Charolais that sometimes would take up to 2 days to get full mobile and there front hoof joint would need bandaged to stop them turning back
statistics and verbatim are just that people that have done it carry more clout or do the crossing and find out for yourself :wave: :wave:
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how much shorter in the gestation period are you talking about VSS
There is a degree of variation between breeds, but you are looking at a variation of only a few days (remember though that these are averages figures).
Have a look at this http://www.genusbreeding.co.uk/documents/upload/Ty_Isaf_Diamond_Ice_proven.pdf. (http://www.genusbreeding.co.uk/documents/upload/Ty_Isaf_Diamond_Ice_proven.pdf.) This gives a genus average for BBs of 283 days, the average for lims and charollais is longer = bigger claves.
Gives a brief run down of the calving ease and the gestation length for a particular bull. The genus beef breeding site provides this data for all its beef bulls enabling you to make an informed choice about calving and growth data, tailored to what is important to you.
For easy calving go for an Angus, a BB, or a Lim. Avoid Charollais.
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the advice is wrong :o jersey beef has yellow fat :( the losses from crossing with large beef types are phenomenal IE dead calves dead cows and both combined the old style Angus was ideal not the Canadian type now produced the other cattle breeds you have to be very cautious (you try squeezing a 16lb baby out ) it can be done BUT you have to restrict the feeding and type of feeding
no experience of Shetlands just jerseys sorry i would not contemplate crossing with the blue either British or otherwise and certainly not from the other continentals by all means try it and find out the hard way funny how nobody mentioned herefords?????????? :wave:
the shetland is often crossed with a beef breed up here. the mums have no problems calfing. our very close neighbour keeps them and often does the cross to stock here freezer.
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Go for Dexter or Shetland, I saw Shetlands at the Isbisters croft near Scalloway, smashing breed. We kept Dexters at my dads farm before he bought Angus. They are a grand breed. I crofted on Unst a long time ago and the locals kept Ayrshires, all these breeds do well on hilly land and average grass. If I were to go for a housecow now it would be a Shetland, calm and quiet. I remember Dexter bulls being hard to handle at times although the beef is a joy!
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Go for Dexter or Shetland, I saw Shetlands at the Isbisters croft near Scalloway, smashing breed. We kept Dexters at my dads farm before he bought Angus. They are a grand breed. I crofted on Unst a long time ago and the locals kept Ayrshires, all these breeds do well on hilly land and average grass. If I were to go for a housecow now it would be a Shetland, calm and quiet. I remember Dexter bulls being hard to handle at times although the beef is a joy!
Thank you for the Shetland vote :-*
Our heifers' dams are Trondra cows from the Isbisters herd :cow: :cow:
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my two are trondra girls, smashing and gorgeous, definitely recommend them.
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Glad you like your girls ladies! The Isbisters certainly know their stock and are grand folk to boot! :wave:
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thats very true. they are very friendly.
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For those intertested in miniuature cattle, or more specifically miniature Hereforeds, you may like to check out ouir website: www.chatervalley.com (http://www.chatervalley.com). We are breeding pedigree mini Herefords which are fully registered with the UK's Hereford Society. it's been a long haul and a slow process but we have built a small her54d here in Rutland. We should have stock to sell within a year or so, all being well. MG
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We have just bought a Shetland heifer in calf. She is 20 months old and seems to have a gentle disposition. She didn't like wearing a halter or being transported in a horse box. So was a bit agitated to begin with. But four days later and she is coming to the bucket for a few nuts.
So far, so good. We are highly delighted with her. Thanks to Rosemary for making the suggestion to look at Shetlands :)
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well done , good choice...any fotos?
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For those intertested in miniuature cattle, or more specifically miniature Hereforeds, you may like to check out ouir website: www.chatervalley.com (http://www.chatervalley.com). We are breeding pedigree mini Herefords which are fully registered with the UK's Hereford Society. it's been a long haul and a slow process but we have built a small her54d here in Rutland. We should have stock to sell within a year or so, all being well. MG
Ooh didn't know anyone bred them in the U.K :)Love Herefords!
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For those intertested in miniuature cattle, or more specifically miniature Hereforeds, you may like to check out ouir website: www.chatervalley.com (http://www.chatervalley.com). We are breeding pedigree mini Herefords which are fully registered with the UK's Hereford Society. it's been a long haul and a slow process but we have built a small her54d here in Rutland. We should have stock to sell within a year or so, all being well. MG
How do these compare to Traditional Herefords? There were a few at the Welsh Smallholder Show - much smaller than the modern type (although hardly miniature :))
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Dexters used to have a dodgy reputation for being jumpy, but this has long been bred out.
I wouldnt put any of the continental breeds onto a Jersey or anything else for first time around. Try jersey or old style angus or something wacky like an Irish Moiled! (Which I believe is a fantastic house cow, as like the shetland it is triple purpose.)
I would only use continental breed AI if your first round of AI doesnt work as generally the continentals specifically Belgian Blues, are more fertlie.
Belgian Blue x Jersey or Holstein is the norm in Dairy herds only when the first round of AI doesnt take, (AI only works 40-50% of the time according to official figures) I should know I work on a Holstein/Friesian farm. And have been on a Jersey farm where there were 250 milkers and only between 5 and 10 continental cross bred calves. Says something about the Jersey fertility - very high!
I have no experience of Shetlands unfortunetly.
One thing to keep in mind is that Continental cattle even when crossed are jumpy. BB's are probably the best and seem to be getting better but Charolais, Limousin are jumpy despite the breed societies best efforts.
Cross breeding increases the likelyhood of throwbacks so bringing back really mad cattle you can ask a local farmer who thought it would be a good idea to cross Limousin with Highland. (They broke out and ran 12 miles before being culled via slaughter man and police marksmen on the back of pickup trucks and in helicopters.
So all in all Dexter, Jersey, Shetland and Irish Moiled would be all excellent for a house cow. Just stay british as there's a reason why our breeds are found in a the inhabited continents on Earth.
P.S. I want a Moiley if anyone would give me one I wouldnt say no ;)
P.P.S There are two types of Devon both a shade of Red. South Devons are larger and a gingery red whilst Devon Ruby Reds are dark red. Please state whether they are Ruby Reds or not as to a newbie it wouldnt make sense. I believe you were talking about Devon Ruby Reds. South Devons however are still triple purpose so could probably be added to your list; just to set the Cat amongst the Pigeons.
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Saw this in Smallholder magazine advertisements. www.lowlinecattle.co.uk (http://www.lowlinecattle.co.uk)
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Rosemary, you're in Scotland aren't you? We are thinking about getting Shetlands and would love to speak to you more about them or come and see yours if you're up for it???? Let me know.
Melanie x
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Rosemary, the other thing I wanted to ask was if there would be any problem keeping a couple of heifers in with some goats? Are the goats prone to having a go at the cows? Would I be best to separate the area for them? Thanks x
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Rosemary, you're in Scotland aren't you? We are thinking about getting Shetlands and would love to speak to you more about them or come and see yours if you're up for it???? Let me know.
Melanie x
Rosemary, the other thing I wanted to ask was if there would be any problem keeping a couple of heifers in with some goats? Are the goats prone to having a go at the cows? Would I be best to separate the area for them? Thanks x
Happy for you to come and see ours. Send me a PM and we'll arrange something.
Don't know about goats - ours graze fine with the sheep and the ponies- - sheep bottom of pecking order, then cows then ponies ;D
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Thanks Rosemary, I'll PM you. Can you just let me know one final thing first though so that I'm not wasting your time. Is there recommended space requirements for keeping cows on - we've been told 1 cow per acre - is this right????
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That's the figure that's usually used, but it depends on the acre, the cow and whether you want to buy in hay or silage.
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What about this for a miniature cow? She is a pedigree Shetland, this is her second calf and he is a 3 month old Simmental x. We did have to calve her and I bought her in calf to the Simmental, I will be breeding her pure in the future but it shows what they can do! Nothing but hay and a cattle booster block over the winter and they wintered outside.
(http://www.tractorsearch.co.uk/images/thumbs/naricalfju.jpg) (http://www.tractorsearch.co.uk/images/?v=naricalfju.jpg)
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I cant see the picture :'(
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Hmm that's odd, I can see it ???
This link should take you to it:
http://www.tractorsearch.co.uk/images/images/naricalfju.jpg (http://www.tractorsearch.co.uk/images/images/naricalfju.jpg)
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Nope - still not there.
I've seen it and it's pretty amazing.
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If you click this link do you not get the pic? Its a different photo Rosemary.
http://www.tractorsearch.co.uk/images/images/naricalfju.jpg (http://www.tractorsearch.co.uk/images/images/naricalfju.jpg)
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I have Traditional Herefords, Miniature Hereford and Midi Hereford Cattle in the Midlands, if any ones interested.
You can see the Maharajah Herd on Tick-toc Maanfarm12 or YouTube Maan Farm
:cow:
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMFJjbLoa/
https://youtu.be/xiNspYlXvV8