The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: McRennet on April 13, 2011, 11:14:32 am
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Hello!
Well, a bit of an update, we may have found our new home! Eek! Exciting! However.......
There is always a downside, and this comes in the form of half of the 32 acres flood in winter. The rest of the time it is marshland and then 'apparently' it dries out. I am skeptical about just how dry it gets.
I don't mind if it floods in winter, it's unlikely the goats will want to be outside grazing in the pouring rain anyway. But does anyone have any knowledge about goats grazing marshland?
It is not deep and it is not water logged, just spongy/springy and damp underfoot.
May two main concerns are
1) will it harm their feet?
2) will they be interested in the plants that grow on it?
Many thanks,
McRennet
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if their feet were constantly wet, they might get sore between their toes, but treatable with engymycin spray/injection.
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Mud & goats do not go together.
I would try and speak to neighbouring property owners about how the ground dries/not dries out. They are more likely to tell the truth accurately... property owner is going to say what you want to hear, he is selling after all.
There are some plants which may not suit goats.... never having had to deal with marshland, I am a bit hazy on this one. They tend to avoid buttercups.
Marshland can be very lime deficient to the detriment of grass.
Whereabouts is this property located ?
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There could be a fluke problem as well with wet land.
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Marshy land and goats = NO !
1) Fluke
2) damp feet - foot rot
3) not good for grazing
Sorry.
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Property is near to Selkirk.
Not to worry, it still leaves us with 15 acres which, given that I currently own 2 goats, this will probably suffice! But we obviously want to grow the herd as we can't make much cheese from only 2 girls!
It just seems impossible to find a property big enough to start a family in with 30-50 acres that is anywhere near our budget :(
Oh well, we shall keep looking....
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they promote the use primitive sheep and cattle for conservationally grazing marshland etc and still doing well condition wise. maybe it would be fine, but if u were wanting a high milk yield it might not give u what u want.
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McRennet :wave:
It's such a pain finding somewhere 1/2 decent for an affordable sum - we know ::) been there :D
If you're expanding the goats you will need dry land - the dryer the better - as already said - footrot, fluke etc :(
A number of things we've done in the past - speak to the locals ( the competing estate agents will be all too happy to give the low-down ;) ) you can also go on the Environment Agency's website to check for things like flooding etc - we nearly bought a really pretty, old farm with 12 acres in a beautiful rural setting very cheaply - until we noticed white goods stored in one of the outbuildings with tide-marks on them about 3 foot up ??? spoke to a local estate agent (not the one selling it) & it turned-out that the place had flooded every November & February for the past 5 years - since the water agency had done some work on flood defences further along the river flowing 400 yards down the end of the property :o
Don't give up - the right place will find you :hshoe:
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Near Selkirk? As in Scottish Borders? I am just down the road!!!! near St Boswells. Could do with a few more goatkeepers locally!
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Ken Briggs had a lovely picture of my Black Girl up to her brisket in the pond eating the reeds etc and on Page 128 of The BGS 1932 year book there's an article "Aquatic Goats" by MJDC who kept a gerd of goats on Marshland 7 miles from Norwich..lovely reading
...or you could keep Irish bog Ponies and help save a real rare breed ;)
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Property is near to Selkirk.
Not to worry, it still leaves us with 15 acres which, given that I currently own 2 goats, this will probably suffice! But we obviously want to grow the herd as we can't make much cheese from only 2 girls!
It just seems impossible to find a property big enough to start a family in with 30-50 acres that is anywhere near our budget :(
Oh well, we shall keep looking....
If it's otherwise ticking all the boxes, why you don't think about planting willow - it'll dry-out the land, provide shelter to the holding, snacks for the goats, possibly start you off on a new craft & you could sell withys (income ;) ) and provide you with fuel to heat the house in these lovely cold winters we get up here :D 15 acres is more than enough for your little herd.
Don't lose sight of your dream :hshoe:
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Wet ground is a no-no for goats, they are too prone to foot rot. On the plus side, they do love marsh grass. We are on clay, and fortunatley our field is at the top of the rise, because lower down it is quite marshy. When we moved in there was a lot of marsh grass, but our field is the only field that doesn't have any now, as the goats have eaten it out.
Beth
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Oh my goodness, what would I do without this forum!?
Anke, yes indeed Selkirk in the borders! We are looking for a place in scotland as that's where we both originate from, harder than it sounds...
Nice to know there are like minded people nearby through!
I like the idea of willow....... and good to know that if it did dry out that they would like the march grass, it's full of it!
We were there last week and it really wasn't too bad, plus there is so much other grazing that I would never let them spend too long on there. But the flukes I have not considered. And this is a very good point. For that reason alone I wouldn't want them on there. What tests can you do though to check to see if your land is clear of flukes?
I'm waiting to hear from the estate agent whether there is the possibility of more land..... he didn't sound too hopeful!
I know I should be writing this place off as it needs too much doing to it and is already at the top of our budget. And yet I can't. There's just something about the place.
:-[
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Be careful....it is so easy to let your heart rule your head.
Once you have got problems...fluke, footrot & other horrors.. you will always have them. Not forgetting the Vet bills that will go with them, that is not being pessimistic, it is a fact.
You seriously should look at higher ground.
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can u not worm for fluke? if u cant afford the "perfect farm" (who can??) improving the land u have can increase the value of what u buy. plus u may find your direction changes to fit in with your land. our place has loads of trees, so we skipped the idea of sheep and moved to pigs which we thoroughly enjoy. 16 acres would support a fair few goats. and they wouldnt churn the mud like ponies would as the are lighter. goodluck in your decision.
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Land is much cheaper further north ;D
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And colder ;) ;D
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And further from Farmers markets!
:D
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AND less pig abbatoirs :o :o
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If it's otherwise ticking all the boxes, why you don't think about planting willow - it'll dry-out the land, provide shelter to the holding, snacks for the goats, possibly start you off on a new craft & you could sell withys (income ;) ) and provide you with fuel to heat the house in these lovely cold winters we get up here :D 15 acres is more than enough for your little herd.
Don't lose sight of your dream :hshoe:
I could be wrong on this (it doesn't happen often ;) ::) ;D) Willow loves it's 'feet wet', they grow really well in damp conditions and they will supply lots of wood (6ft a year growth in some varieties) BUT the willow I have hasn't dried the ground out :-\ so don't count on it as a remedy for poor drainage or flooding, sorry :-[
I'm in South Lanarkshire, so a wee bit further up (but handy for Glasgow & Edinburgh ;)) if I hear of anything I'll let you know :wave:
Oh found these one's http://www.lawrie-and-symington.com/lanark-property-list/ (http://www.lawrie-and-symington.com/lanark-property-list/) really close for abattiors AND clyde valley is good for tourists & farmers markets ;) Can't do much about the rain or midgies - but it IS Scotland we're talking about ;D ;D ;D
I would always say buy the best land and as much of it as you can - houses and buildings can be fixed up/built relativley cheaply, compared to trying to fix rotten ground.
Karen x
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Ahh, interesting properties with that estate agent! I shall ring them later about one of them.
I don't want to give up hope on this peroperty but I think the head and heart are saying 2 very different things. :-[
Am going to do a thorough property search this week and if I can fly up again for some more viewings.
We have taken plunge and are going to put our efforts into getting our dairy herd established also. Feels good to make a decision. ;D
xx
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The way I kinda look at it is - humans can adapt easier to rough conditions than animals and while you've obviously got to be fit and healthy to function, your animals won't do as well on bad ground and since they'll be providing your income it makes sense to get the absolute best for them and put yourself lower down the list.
Hence why my pigs all have lovely cosy arcs, plenty of ground and good fences while we live in a bit of a guddle ::) I'd rather do without for myself and be sure they were 100% happy and had their needs met (hubby will testify to this ;D)
If you're coming to the Lanark area (I live in Lesmahagow about 7 miles away), let me know and if you've got the time I'll happilly meet up with you and give you the insider info ;)
Take care,
Karen :wave:
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theres loads of smallholdings in NE scotland...and theres a abbatoir and farmers markets and rare breed market etc
:wave: ;D ;D
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Fluke is a problem in this area, my sheep have it (brought it with them...), but no worms. I treat twice annually, but not sure if goats would not be worse with it.
Also if you are planning to establish a diary herd (goats) you will need quite a good sized barn for all the damp days/snow we are getting. If there isn't one, then it may be difficult to get PP. There is on dairy nearby that manufacture now (apparently) goats cheese too, but buy the goats milk in from England....
Have fun looking, the Borders are nice and both Edinburgh and Glasgow are fairly easily reached, as is Newcastle.
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Hi McR,
I also live in Borders near Lauder - can I just say that picking your site is about the most important thing you can do - keep in mind that there are a lot of sites which come up in the Borders - really, don't rush into it - one thing we did which really worked was to advertise in the Scottish Farmer and Farmers Weekly - we described ourselves as a 'considerate family' as anyone selling land / property has a vested interest in who is over their fence - we had a huge response (42 replies in total). We bought a small farm in Jedburgh but moved to nr Lauder/Westruther to a site with a river and a water wheel which has opened up loads more possibilities (by the way you can make a water wheel if you get a river on a site which means free electricity - think of your running costs wherever you go). Borders in land rich (there's lots of space here) and you will find sites coming up quite regularly, take your time, its expensive getting in wrong and having to uproot again. If the site you're talking about has lots of water then look at making a pond - the costs aren't that high - around £2-3k - there's a man in Bonchester Bridge that does it. Keep fish or swim in it or get a wee boat and have fun. Good luck.
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theres loads of smallholdings in NE scotland...and theres a abbatoir and farmers markets and rare breed market etc
:wave: ;D ;D
agree with this.
have a look here for a few options http://www.stewartwatson.co.uk/search.php?pagenum=2&prop_type=type_2%2C&LowPrice=ANY&HighPrice=ANY&POA=1&AllPrice=1&Bedrooms=0&Location=all&AddressKeyWords= (http://www.stewartwatson.co.uk/search.php?pagenum=2&prop_type=type_2%2C&LowPrice=ANY&HighPrice=ANY&POA=1&AllPrice=1&Bedrooms=0&Location=all&AddressKeyWords=) ;D
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AND less pig abbatoirs :o :o
Perhaps I'll scrap my plans for Goating and start an abbatoir.................. ;D
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Yes! Maybe doing things in the reverse order of the food chain would certainly add a different perspective on it. I'll keep an eye open in the Southern Reporter by the way for anything coming up in case you don't go ahead with your existing site (property I mean - not abattoirs). :D
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Thanks for this, I really appreciate it.
;D
I think we are still pretty fixedon having the :goat:
But seeing as I'm studying butchery, a knowledge of the local abattoirs wouldn't be a bad thing! I hope to have pigs :pig: in order to dispose of the whey produced in cheesemaking. Once they are or a certain age, home cured bacon, chorizo, salmi, etc etc etc/.......! :yum:
Apologies about all the images, am still getting to grips with technology!
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The other plus for Aberdeenshire if you have goats is that there is a butcher in Aberdeen who will take male kids as there is a large demand for goat meat here due to the people working in the oil industry.