The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Helencus on April 09, 2011, 04:28:43 pm
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Sorry but this race makes my blood boil. Year after year animals die and it's still allowed to go ahead! I've just seen images of at least 2 dead horses this year yet everyone thinks it's great! Personally I hate it!
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Each to there own I own an ex racehorse that ran in the grand national. A lot of these TB's wouldbe put to sleep anyway if there wasn't races for them to run. I suppose slot of my familywouldnt have jobs as they work in race stables. It has been reported that at the fences that had to be avoided one was a dead horse the other was an injured jockey and hats of to the vets that work quickly if there is an injury. Racehorses suffer less if they are fatally injured than any other horse sport
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agri shows has deaths or fatality's as well it is just you don't see them
the royal had pigs that scummed to heat stroke
the Royal highland show had 2 sheep that broke there leg also they had a cow and calve that were the victim of heat stroke last year :wave:
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Where there are animals there are inevitably going to be deaths it is just more people see the national as it is on tv. My boy loves to jump and race with his friends and I am not going to stop him until it becomes a peoblem with his age
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I love watching it.
I think two horses died and that's really sad but animals do die - no-one set out to kill them - in fact, the trainers, the jockeys and the stable staff would be doing everything to make sure they were in the best shape NOT to get killed. I have no idea how many horses die as a result of their use in equestrian sport each year - quite a few I imagine. It's just that the National is very "in your face". They do seem to have made a lot of changes to make it safer but all equestrian sport is inherently dangerous.
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I get upset but I suppose a lot of other athlete's die, not only animals, wish I'd had a bet on the horse that won :wave:
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I know lots of animals die in lots of sports I just hate seeing it. I wouldn't watch but my oh does and I was unable to do much about it incapacitated.. I just think it's horrible although I understand they've tried to make it safer It's horrible to see animals lives lost like that.
Just my opinion but I really don't like it.
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I remember being upset at a point to point meet when one horse had to be put down!!!
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I don't watch the National, hate it when the horses fall and are inured or killed. I would say most, if not all of the people who own and train these horses are devastated when something happens, but they know the risks. Horse racing is a big sport, the National must bring in good revenue for Liverpool when you imagine how many people travel there, and stay over so I doubt it will ever be banned.
Horses die in flat races, heart attacks, and on horse trials etc. but we tend not to hear about them.
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I was at Badminton Horse Trials the year Mark Todd's horse fell and had to be put down. Absolutely everyone was upset, the mood for the rest of the day was sombre. They changed the route on the fly and put a lot more effort in for subsequent years making sure there were safe all-weather routes at every fence, and closing routes if the weather made them too dangerous.
Many years ago, probably 25 I should think, there was a Grand National in which 3 horses died. The field had been 33, I think. After that they did some work on making the fences safer and they reduced the number of horses starting, which was the biggest single factor in reducing fatalities. Today there were 40 runners.
It is a great race in many respects but I do wish they could come up with some way of reducing the number of runners to a safer level.
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Money over safety. It's an industry. It's not just the horses that die in that race. It's all the other horses that are destroyed in the 'industry'
I don't watch it either. When I tell people I don't like racing they don't understand when they know I have horses. I maybe a tradition. then again so is bull fighting. There's too much wastage in the racing 'industry'
Cut from a newspaper article:
"Turners claims to kill about 700 racehorses a year. The skins go into the leather trade, while the meat is shipped for human consumption on the Continent, with off-cuts going for dog meat.
Certainly, this is not the world imagined by racegoers in their Ascot finery. But the problem is made far worse by a huge surfeit of horses, deliberately created in order that only the very best and fastest animals are available to satisfy the demands of the multi-millionaire owners who bankroll the business.
Animal Aid, the welfare body which monitors the industry, says 18,000 foals were born in the British and Irish racing industry in 2008 - double the number of a decade ago. Only 8,000 make it into competitive racing.
Of the remaining 10,000, about 2,000 racehorses a year are slaughtered at abattoirs, according to Animal Aid.
Research by the Food Standards Agency shows that, in 2008, a total of 3,183 horses were killed in British abattoirs."
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Yes horses go to slaughter just like sheep pigs and cows and yes on the continent they are eating horse meat as they are not regarded as just expensive pets. I personally could not breed for this reason but I also am not against it and again as livestock it does bring money to the breeders. Also a lot if people looking for horses won't take on a TB or an ex racehorse as they can be expensive and hard work mine is now 19 and ran his last race 6 years ago and still has a few racing quips which I probably will never get rid of and if I get the chance to have another ex racehorse I would do it all again. I do go to the races and I love it I was brought up next to a race course and watched all the races from the hill side and my cousins all work in the industry and they always do the best for the horses and will not run a horse if they didn't think it was fit and safe
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I never watch it. The fences are too big and the races too long. Greed over safety. Race yards churn out foal after foal, race them early and once they break down, send them to slaughter. There are hundreds of 3 year olds on the list and they have too many problems for most people to rehome them.
Horses don't race because they enjoy it. Of course they love chasing about with their friends in the field, going for a gallop on the beach, some horses love to jump ... when they feel safe. They race because are running on instinct, out of fear, with the herd, but with out any leadership from anything but the jockey on the horse at the front - who is doing it for fun, money and 'sport' . No alpha mare or stallion would take its herd in to danger unless it was running scared and that is all these instinctual animals have to go off. Trainers rely on horses fear and flightiness to make them good horses.
I didn't really mean that to sound like a rant but I guess it did :-[./ It's just one of the things that make me mad ... along with irresponsible dog breeding etc etc :) :wave:
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I never watch it. The fences are too big and the races too long. Greed over safety. Race yards churn out foal after foal, race them early and once they break down, send them to slaughter. There are hundreds of 3 year olds on the list and they have too many problems for most people to rehome them.
Horses don't race because they enjoy it. Of course they love chasing about with their friends in the field, going for a gallop on the beach, some horses love to jump ... when they feel safe. They race because are running on instinct, out of fear, with the herd, but with out any leadership from anything but the jockey on the horse at the front - who is doing it for fun, money and 'sport' . No alpha mare or stallion would take its herd in to danger unless it was running scared and that is all these instinctual animals have to go off. Trainers rely on horses fear and flightiness to make them good horses.
I didn't really mean that to sound like a rant but I guess it did :-[./ It's just one of the things that make me mad ... along with irresponsible dog breeding etc etc :) :wave:
I'm with you all the way, loosey - 100% on both counts. There is no need to race these animals except for money and there is no need to breed dogs except for money - or sometimes in ignorance that a bitch can be spayed or put on injections, or a dog castrated - same as you would other animals! 'Oh but I don't like doing that to my Maisie/Fido' is no excuse, the resulting pups might end up the same way. Sorry - that's me ranting too now, but like you I feel very strongly about it. I ONLY breed when I have at least 4 people waiting (my breed has on average 6 to 7, but I once had a litter of 11 - no problem selling them as I'm well known in our breed)
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Don't agree with you, loosey. I think we humans have adapted a horse's natural instincts to our own ends. I don't think racing horses are scared - they jump carefully and with thought. They aren't bolting. We've done the same with dogs - taken natural instincts and bred for them to herd, fight, track and so on.
I think irresponsible breeding of any sort is, well, irresponsible - but it's no different to breeding lots of lambs or calves to select the best for purpose. The ones that aren't fit for breeding are culled. It's just that we feel differently about dogs and horses because we treat them as pets. Racehorses are no different to cows or sheep or any other "farmed" animal, if you take sentiment out of it.
There's no reason to do ANYTHING with these horses - it's like eating beef, if there's no demand, they wouldn't live at all. Sorry just confused sentiments as far as I'm concerned.
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??? Why the sudden change from horses to dogs?
THink someone has lost the thread ::)
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Loosey said this
It's just one of the things that make me mad ... along with irresponsible dog breeding etc etc
I agreed with her.
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I think that the National should be run in minimum good to soft ground or softer and (controversial!) the fences should be put back up to their original heights before they were lowered! All the other safety measures should remain eg covering the brook at Bechers to avoid horses getting stuck, having the orange strips across to heighten visibility of fences.
The thing that kills horses in races like the National is speed. Fall slowly on soft ground and very few horses suffer permanent damage. Fall while hitting a fence at high speed on fastish ground and it's curtains. The fences were lowered but that has increased the speed and lessened the respect with which the horses hold them, it has also encouraged the more standard chasers to be entered, who if they stand up are much faster so have a big chance at the prize, but who all too often are not suited to the GNs obstacles. I would also reduce entries to 35, just to lessen the chances of being brought down.
As a horse owner and horse lover, I hate to see any horse being injured or worse; and I dont believe a horse who has shown themselves not to enjoy Aintree or who hasnt shown themselves to be likely to stay the trip should be tried again in the GN, they either like it or they dont, but I do believe that it is the ultimate test of a jockey and horse. Horses injure themselves fatally every day in their paddocks and out hacking, and there is no such thing as risk free horse riding.
For the same reason I would be in favour of the re-intro of steeplechase and roads and tracks sections in 3 day events; the horses then take the XC much more steadily and safely instead of haring round and ending up having rotational falls which kill horse and quite often rider. Sometimes safety measures can be anything but!
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You make some interesting points lachlanandmarcus. It just goes to show that these things are never quite so straightforward as they seem.
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Why did they take the roads and steeplechase bits out of the XC?
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people should stop and pause a minute, forget the grand national, people have been breeding horses in that boom years, because there were nation of horse loving people out there,spent thousands on their horses like prize possessions. Now recessesion kicks in money gets tighter, now where does the prize loving horse goes, to the nearest rescue centre, lets dump it on there doorstep, now what the rescue centre doesn't tell you, when there yard is full, the knacker man comes in and takes horses that they can't shift.
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Why did they take the roads and steeplechase bits out of the XC?
Partly to make it less strenuous to increase the numbers competing. But mostly because eventing is an expensive sport to run at Olympic level, and is under threat of being dropped; in order to stay in this deal was done, and also other smaller Olympic nations dont necessarily have the facilities to run the original spec for a top level 3DE; you need a lot of land/facilities so its not deemed to be a fair competition for the Olympics if realistically certain nations will be the only ones able to practice properly.
As a result of doing it the horses speed round the XC so much that they have had to introduce more in the way of 'tricky' fences; narrow corners, tricky related distances (which I dislike from the horses perspective) and less of the good old fashioned massive but strightforward 'rider frighteners' (generally the horses jumped those very well, but they looked great from a spectator perspective!). The dressage phase has also become a lot more influential as the lack of steeplechase/roads and tracks has meant continental Warmbloods who are better at dressage can do well, whereas previously Thoroughbreds were the norm as they have more stamina. For me this again hasnt improved the 3DE for the better as for a good competition the XC should be the most influential phase (otherwise it might as well be a dressage comp or a showjumping test).