The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: sausagesandcash on April 06, 2011, 08:57:54 am
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I sure am glad my wife and I choose not to let our kids get this vaccine in school
http://www.independent.ie/health/swine-flu/gps-must-return-flu-vaccine-over-narcolepsy-fears-2607513.html (http://www.independent.ie/health/swine-flu/gps-must-return-flu-vaccine-over-narcolepsy-fears-2607513.html)
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Phew, me too !
I remember the look of indignation on the nurses face when I said they weren't having it, they made me feel like the worst mum in the world. I'm so glad I went with my gut and stood my ground ;)
Always knew I was cynical for a good reason ::) ;D ;D ;D
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my ex caught swine flu early january, we went bowlin one evening for my dauhters bday, next mornin she was 999 ambulance straiht to isolation in itu, one week lter she was put in an induced coma on full life support and given less than 50 50 chance of pulling through. on the ward were six other people in induced coma, one had been under for 6 weeks. myself and my dauhter had had the jab, she hadnt, as my dauhter has cerebral palsy i doubt she would have made it ad she got the swine flu. my ex is still recoverin now. swine flu is a killer, its very hard to treat and articles like the one above are just scaremongering, read what it says at the end...
''GPs are told in the HSE directive that while there has been an increase in narcolepsy in Finland and Sweden, it has not been noted in all countries using Pandemrix.
"No increase has been seen in the United Kingdom, which also used Pandemrix," the briefing document noted.
The European Centre for Disease Control is undertaking a study in nine European countries, with the results expected by July this year.
"The European Medicines Agency has stated that no definitive conclusions can be drawn until further studies are completed and has therefore not recommended any changes to the marketing authorisation for Pandemrix," it said.
Here, the Health Protection Surveillance Centre will now work with the IMB to examine data available on narcolepsy in Ireland.
"In summary, there has been conflicting data emerging in relation to narcolepsy and the situation is as yet unclear," the HSE told Irish doctors.
''
ifyou feel that the risk of contracting narcolepsy from the jab is scarier than swine flu think again. ill have the jab next yr and so will my ex.
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the big negative is it is last years swine flu that they work from this current year will be different :wave:
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All influenza viruses mutate, so any vaccination is guesswork, albeit educated.
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The thing about catching flu is the virus enters the body through the respiratory system. This gives the body plenty of warning that it is coming and the immune system responds naturally.
Introducing a virus through the skin, and directly into an unprepared body, can cause problems with the immune system's response.
Neither of my sons have had Swine Flu jags (jabs?!?), nor have they had MMR. The medical people take exception to that and do treat us as clueless parents if the subject comes up.
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scaremongering, AGAIN !!!
ye gods.... the 'fact' remains ...yes FACT !!! that 475 approx, people died of swine flu officially in the UK . If you look at all the information that was about , most of those died from 'other ' causes , ie , they had underlying health issues !!! (remember we were told over and over again, that it was fit and healthy people between the age of 18 and 50 that were at most risk , that people with reduced immune systems were at much less risk ???)
Take into account that government figures state that between 6,000 and 12,000 people die every year from seasonal flu , ( the number fluctuates dependent on how much seasonal flu vaccine they need to get shot of ) . Also take into account that the main man who invented the seasonal flu vaccine , actually said himself that it does NOT do what the government says it does . He says that you would be better off buying anti virals at the chemist . It was never intended to do what the government says it will , that is from the man that invented the bloody thing.
Now they have added the swine flu vaccine to it . A vaccine that was in fact patented nearly 2 years BEFORE the swine flu outbreak !!!
So we have government and WHO scaremongering , telling us that 700,000 may die of swine flu in the UK , upon it's outbreak . Where upon the actual figures were about 5%, after 2years.
Then we have Tamiflu etc ... read the little bit of paper that tells you about all the things that can go wrong if you take it !!! it is worse than bloody swine flu !!! ( I actually investigated the cause of death of about 250 people that died from 'swine flu' ?? and 185 of the ones I could get, died of symptoms identical to that of Tamiflu related problems ??? you figure it out !! )
For those that believe the outright lies the government and WHO push out , and have the jab ... good luck to you , but remember the government figures that stated that 80% of frontline health workers DIDN'T have the vaccine , nor did the head of WHO !!! I wonder why ?
cheers
Russ
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just out of interest does anyone on here vaccinate their livestock?
would anyone on here accept the smallpox jab for their kids or themselves? or polio or bcg?
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no one has had the smallpox jab in the last 30+ years. ive had the flu jab and one daughter the wife had it the year before. its a nasty bug and has put lot of folks in hospital. lots are not tested so those death stats are wrong.
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Neither of my sons have had Swine Flu jags (jabs?!?), nor have they had MMR. The medical people take exception to that and do treat us as clueless parents if the subject comes up.
Swine Flu is one thing- MMR is quite another. So your children are not vaccinated against measles?
I agree with what deepinthewoods is saying- so why do we bother to vaccinate any of our animals if we do not use any vaccines ourselves? Surely if you want to take the risk for yourselves, or for your children then you would be happy for your animals to have that same risk?
Beth
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and it is one thing to smugly say 'phew, i didnt put myself at risk by having that new vaccine' and quite another to cynicaly watch a loved one fight for their life cos they didnt have it. i know what i would choose havin been there, watchin someone dream in coma is not nice. as for 80% of frontline staff not having taken the jab, get real. r u tellin me that the amazing hospital staff who saved numerous lives and dealt with numerouse cases of swine flu day in and day out, every day, for their living, didnt have the jab, i dont think so.
now im off to feed my vaccinated chickens, cats, dog, daughter and then maybe me!!
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My wife is a Nurse on a medical ward; she and many of her colleagues nurses /doctors declined the jab BUT as the medics/nurses said they have met so many viruses etc that if they don't have a wide range of immunity then no one will they didn't feel they were at much risk.
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the stated death stats of 475 for the UK are government figures , backed up by WHO figures !!! and we know they don't lie ...don't we ?
When people die in the UK do they not need to put a reason for death on the certificate? or do they lie again ?
As for not being tested for swine flu , was that not for the general infection rate assessment of the populous during the 'pandemic' ?(that in fact never was a pandemic !!! they changed the rules to make it one !! ) .
The 80% non take up of the vaccine by frontline health workers, was government figures again , so get real yourself , or just read what the government actually said itself . If people want the jab let them have it .. it remains that any vaccine given for swine flu will be out of date and virtually useless by the time it is given to the patient as the virus would have mutated into a different form ...again this was stated by the head of the UK medical team ..Dr Anderson? ,can't remember his name now , and that was the man pushing for everyone to have the jab !!! . But the whole debacle was a cock up from start to finish . With just about every other statement from the government contradicting the one before .
cheers
Russ
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Over the course of my 40-odd years on this amazing planet I've been given any number of different vaccines and I'm still here to tell about it.
Some of them I had to check in my passports for:
Polio, tetanus, diphtheria, MMR, tuberculosis, yellow fever, cholera, several types of hepatitis, rabies, typhoid, encephalitis, meningitis, pneumococcal pneumonia, swine flu, and countless seasonal flus.
Do I get a prize? ;)
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ok some facts.
1 if you or a loved one is gonna die from a disease, you will take any treatment available.
2 vaccination has saved millions if not billions of lives.
3 evolution takes multiple generations to develop an effective antibody, at the ultimate cost of lives
4 medical science, whilst not perfect is the best chance weve got.
5 the really scary thing is, that the more insular your life is, the more at risk you are.
all the staff on the itu ward i spent every day at had been vaccinated despite the quarantined environment.
as i said b4 you choose to be vaccinated or not, if you are in a position of responsibility for your kids then bl..dy well get it done.
and if you dont get the vaccine, and then get swine flu, then do us all a favour and refuse to be treated in the hope that youll be the lucky bug..r who develops the immunity that saves the rest of us.
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I got a letter from Defra saying i should get my free swine flu jab because of my involvement with poultry and cattle etc. i got the jab and wish i hadn't made me sic as a pigg for weeks, went to the doctors turned out i had swine flu >:(
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isn't it also a fact that hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions ?, DID get swine flu and DID get better without the vaccination ? Again this comes from government stats ...not mine.
Even the main head Dr in charge of the UK swine flu 'campaign' ?, said that most people who get swine flu will just feel a bit ill for a few days ..
He did actually seem like a really nice bloke who was caught up in something that he hadn't read the script for ...
As for no1 in your list of facts:
"1 if you or a loved one is gonna die from a disease, you will take any treatment available."
That doesn't apply to everyone , Jehovah Witnesses , so therefore cannot be a fact ....
cheers
Russ
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thats probably true, but as its supposition not fact we'll never know.
what i DO know is swine flu kills, if, for whatever reason, it takes you proper, untreated your a gonna. not a risk ill take for me and mine having seen it first hand.
i guarantee that if you had experienced this first hand youd be saying the same.
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jehovahs witnesses????? ffs
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what was supposition ? it is fact that the majority of people who had swine recovered, and most of those did so without the vaccine !!! so we do know ... because they are still alive, 20 members of my family had swine flu , and I know many more that had it too, they all lived .
Yes swine flu CAN kill , so can seasonal flu , so can many other things .
cheers
Russ
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I think this is a subject we need to agree to disagree on as it's a very emotive subject everyone deals with risk as they see fit and that is a fact of life;everyone will have an opinion and they wont be the same;and this type of topic has a habit of going round in circles with no one giving way.
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were all those people blood tested? no, hence supposition,
tbh im still getting over the jw backup..... ::)
gavo, i agree, tis fun tho ;)
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aye i am enjoying reading it as well(will add a bit more) :wave:
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At first all suspected cases were clinically tested , it was only after some time that they ceased testing .
But if you want supposition check out where the figures for the seasonal flu death rates came from .. not even the UK !! It was an extrapolation of a comparative few cases of deaths, I think in the 1960's maybe the 70's , in the USA . It also turned out that some 80% of those cases used in the extrapolation , actually died of pneumonia , not directly related to seasonal flu .
This has now become the 'fact' that the government and the WHO roll out every year, and it is based on crap ...not fact .
As for the JW :
"Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Bible prohibits ingesting blood and that Christians should therefore not accept blood transfusions or donate or store their own blood for transfusion.[1] Watch Tower Society publications teach that the Witnesses' refusal of transfusions of whole blood or its four primary components—red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma—is a non-negotiable religious stand and that those who respect life as a gift from God do not try to sustain life by taking in blood,[2][3] even in an emergency.[4] Witnesses are told that the use of fractions such as albumin, immunoglobulins and hemophiliac preparations are "not absolutely prohibited" and a matter of personal choice.[3] Although accepted by the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses, a minority does not endorse this doctrine.[5]
The doctrine was introduced in 1945, and has undergone some changes since then. It is one of the doctrines for which Jehovah's Witnesses are most well known.[6] Members of the religion who voluntarily accept a transfusion are regarded as having disassociated themselves from the religion by abandoning its doctrines[7][8][9] and are subsequently shunned by members of the organization.[10]
The Watch Tower Society has established Hospital Information Services to provide education and facilitate bloodless surgery. This service also maintains Hospital Liaison Committees, whose function is to provide support to adherents."
So no1 does not apply to JW's ... it is not fact for them ...simple ...
cheers
Russ
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Me and all of the doctors and nurses I work and socialise with have their jabs every year and make sure their kids have the relevant jabs and yes we all practice evidence based medicine.
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As i said before the wife declined the swine flu jab and has always declined the seasonal flu jab but has had all the children vaccinated for all other relevant probs (as i said before it's all a question of risk assessment). She felt swine flu was less of a risk than it at first seemed. Our local hospital has had it's fair share of cases and she has nursed her fair share of them, it has still not changed her mind or that of many other staff.
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Talking only about the flu jab now, isn't it true that the vaccine doesn't contain any live virus and so it isn't possible to contract the disease from the vaccine?
Personally, I'll take anything they offer me and consider it an improvement in my chances.
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Blind faith can be a dangerous thing !
Thalidomide for example
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well it all comes down to choice YOUR CHOICE our son works for the nhs and he gets his every year that is his choice :wave:
Lillian is diabetic and one of the groups at risk last year she had the jab and was ill for ages :P
me on the other hand have high blood pressure should get it BUT DO NOT WANT IT both of use did not get the jab this year :o :o and are still here BUT ON SWINE FLU ask yourselves how come they had a vaccine ready when the plane from Mexico carrying the the first victims was landing :o
personally i am with rusty on this one with the government men in white jackets and there spives only telling us what they want us to know thalidomide is a good example BSE/MAD COW DIESES and the last outbreak of foot and mouth are others that they have suppressed
I AM NOT A NUMBER I AM A FREE MAN :wave: :wave:
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Ref Vaccines-
my daughter had two of the three HPV vaccines a few years ago. A few weeks after the second she developed reactive arthritis, with a CRP of 170!!! (normal is next to zero....significant inflamation would give a CRP of 10 - 20) she was in agony..in hosps for two weeks. At the age of 18 couldnt even wipe her own bum, or walk to the toilet, or feed herself.. This was definately linked to the HPV vaccine and was 'yellow card reported' as a reaction, to the relevant authority. She has been advised not to have any vaccines in the future.
Having started to recover from the arthritis..last year she went on to develope FSGS (a serious kidney malfunction) as a result of inflamation from the reactive arthritis putting a strain on her kidneys. Infortunately she is not really responding to the massive steroid treatment (the only real response was the weight gain and bloating, the swollen face, the hair thinning, the bruising, the mood swings, and the depression) and is now looking forward to a lifelong condition with a 40% chance of kidney failure, dialysis, and transplants. 20% of those with FSGS who have kidney replacements develope the disease in the new kidney too.... So, life changing, life threatening, life shortening!!! NO FUN!! ...all for the sake of a vaccine which actually only prevents ONE of the several virusses which MAY cause genital warts - which MAY cause cervical cancer......... and the protection only lasts for a limited period of time.
I am not suggesting anyone does not get their daughters vaccinated but, do weigh up the pros and cons, look at the alternative methods of protection, and assess their suitability for the girl, bearing in mind the additional benefits of other forms of protection. eg condoms.
Emma T
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the Mexico outbreak was a joke in many ways ,( although not a funny one as people were dying) .
The first news came on the tv that an outbreak of pig flu had occurred ( that was their description not mine !), and that it was very contagious . Then the numbers of deaths started to rise a lot , and the name changed to swine flu ( mixed with human flu and bird flu , the actual mix has since been described by many experts as impossible to occur in nature !!).
Still no attempt was made to curb travel to or from Mexico . People were allowed to fly all over the world (remember they already know it is a highly contagious disease and a possible pandemic could arise).
The death toll continued to rise , but still people were allowed to travel to and from Mexico , although they did now 'advise'? people not to travel there !!!
Then , as strange as it may seem , people in other countries started to get ill with it . Now how could that happen ? Then the WHO changed the way a pandemic is called . And then they 'restricted' flights from Mexico ( stable doors , horses etc etc etc ! ). Deaths had more or less stopped by this time in Mexico.
All through this time we were being told how deadly this disease was and that 700,000 people in the UK could die from it, but still no restriction on movement ?.
Nothing about what they did adds up !!! nothing ... not in a good way anyway .
But they have had a couple of years to improve the strain now , so maybe this time H1N1 will do what 'they' said it would do last time .
The vaccine was patented nearly 2 years before the outbreak , and yet we are told again and again that you can't create the vaccine till you have the virus ?
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=5052.0;wap2 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=5052.0;wap2)
cheers
Russ
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that is my point rustyme it was man made BUT BY WHO AND WHAT IS THERE ULTIMATE GOAL :wave:
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yes as you say by WHO and what is their ultimate goal ?.
Unicef organised a vaccine in Nigeria , the details of which make for very scary reading :
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2004/mar/04031101 (http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2004/mar/04031101)
the next article is even scarier , and shows a very dark agenda in place indeed :
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2002/oct/021030a (http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2002/oct/021030a)
The WHO has very similar , if not identical agendas within in it's mandate , all is not what it seems !!!
cheers
Russ
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ok some facts.
1 if you or a loved one is gonna die from a disease, you will take any treatment available.
2 vaccination has saved millions if not billions of lives.
3 evolution takes multiple generations to develop an effective antibody, at the ultimate cost of lives
4 medical science, whilst not perfect is the best chance weve got.
5 the really scary thing is, that the more insular your life is, the more at risk you are.
all the staff on the itu ward i spent every day at had been vaccinated despite the quarantined environment.
as i said b4 you choose to be vaccinated or not, if you are in a position of responsibility for your kids then bl..dy well get it done.
and if you dont get the vaccine, and then get swine flu, then do us all a favour and refuse to be treated in the hope that youll be the lucky bug..r who develops the immunity that saves the rest of us.
1. If.
2. Yet some people have been grossly damaged by vaccines.
3. We have been evolving for millenia.
4. Since the governments of the 'civilised' world discredited and decried natural medicines and those peoples who practiced healing with them, it's all we've bloody got.
5. Nonsense.
Surely ITU staff are vaccinated to protect the patients.
It's precisely my sense of responsibility for my children which has prevented my having them vaccinated.
If.
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Medical science is a crock...there is no money in cures...but sickness is a billion dollar industry.
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for pity sake. you really believe half this cow dung. here is a fact
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1417414_bcg-jab-would-have-saved-tot-killed-by-tb (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1417414_bcg-jab-would-have-saved-tot-killed-by-tb)
this was the attitude that resulted in measles making a come back with deaths and serious illnesses. yes there are very serious reactions to some vaccines but there are many more to the desieses that they are there to prevent. any parent fancy having there kids catching hib,polio or any of the old killers. if the vaccines are not used the diseases will come back and they will kill. its that simple. not a gamble that i would take.
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not really the best example to put forward there Paul , as it wasn't due to her mothers refusal to have the child vaccinated , but the inadequacy of the medical profession and social services , who it would seem, let the child down .
Also that's one case ... I could flood this website with literally thousands of proven cases of vaccine reaction illness and death .
I do actually believe that vaccines given years ago were better, more effective, and possibly safer , than those used now. Although the use of alum (aluminum hydroxide), and thimerosal—which is 50 percent ethyl mercury , is questionable to say the least . We know the effects that mercury and aluminium can and do have on humans and both are classed as neurotoxins .
The make up of present and new vaccines is somewhat different to those in the past, and at the very least questionable, in regards to safety, efficacy and reason for giving many of the almost unending list of vaccines that are on the cards to be issued over the next few years .
Also, the swine flu 'outbreak' ? is at best highly questionable , and part of the contents of at least one of the vaccines, is actually classed as a biological weapon :
" Micropaleontologist Dr. Viera Scheibner conducted research into the adverse effects of adjuvants in vaccines and wrote: Squalene "contributed to the cascade of reactions called " Gulf War syndrome. GIs developed arthritis, fibromyalgia, lymphadenopathy, rashes, photosensitive rashes, malar rashes, chronic fatigue, chronic headaches, abnormal body hair loss, non-healing skin lesions, aphthous ulcers, dizziness, weakness, memory loss, seizures, mood changes, neuropsychiatric problems, anti-thyroid effects, anaemia, elevated ESR (erythrocyte sedimentation rate), systemic lupus erythematosus, multiple sclerosis, deadly Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Raynaud's phenomenon with paroxysms of lack of blood in fingers and toes in fingers and toes, Sjorgren's syndrome with blurred vision, chronic diarrhea, night sweats and low-grade fever."
Wikipedia A study linking squalene, as experimental vaccine adjuvant, to individuals with the clinical signs of Gulf War syndrome was published in 2002. A U.S. Federal Judge ruled that there was good cause to believe aqualene to be harmful, and he ordered the Pentagon to stop administering it in October 2004.
Matsumoto says "Squalene is a kind of trigger for (a) real biological weapon," what Soviet researchers called "a biological time bomb!!" He and Dr. Pam Asa conclude that "Oil adjuvants are the most insidious chemical weapon ever devised," including ones with squalene. So what American scientists conceived as a vaccine booster (or what's now being developed in labs) was another 'nano-bomb,' instigating chronic, unpredictable and debilitating disease. Using squalene in vaccines is outlandish and criminal. "
http://www.vierascheibner.org/ (http://www.vierascheibner.org/)
cheers
Russ
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now gulf war syndrome funny how it is American studies and no British ones (the Americans were in proper accommodation while the British were in tents sprayed with a concoction of chemicals) the stupid British denied its existence(warble fly were treated with orgaophosphates the prerunner to bse as were the tents in the gulf same as sheepdip) o this just gets better and better :wave:
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why would we need to carry out studies ? we know we can trust the government and the pharmaceutical companies !! They don't have vested interests in keeping the population sick and unhealthy !!!
cheers
Russ
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read my comment, with the most sarcastic tone you can muster in your voice , and you will get my meaning . My sarcasm was directed at the corrupt body of thieves , swindlers , fraudsters , sex offenders , traitors , criminals and liars that is commonly known as the UK government , and the equally corrupt and criminal pharmaceutical companies, that bribe and own afore said corrupt government !!!
As you say everyone IS just a number to the powers that be .... a 16 digit IBM number in fact , and if you have a passport with the hologram on it , you already have your RFID chip with your very own personal IBM 16 digit number implanted in it .The company that makes the RFID chip is an IBM subsidiary .
The 16 digit IBM number that everyone has , is just the modern day equivalent of the 5 digit number, that was given to the Jews, dissidents , homosexuals and anyone else that was against the German regime , in the 1930's and throughout the second world war. That 5 digit number was also an IBM number . It was created so that the Germans could trace all the Jews etc, via the Hollerith punch card machine ( Hollerith was a subsidiary of IBM since 1922), and also the 1939 census form ( hope you all filled in your census forms !! the census being run by Lockheed Martin , the American arms manufacturer !!).
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Hollerith.html (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Hollerith.html)
http://censusalert.org.uk/ (http://censusalert.org.uk/)
"They also focus on intelligence and surveillance work and boast of their ability to provide ‘integrated threat information’ that combines information from many different sources."
Handy that they are carrying out the UK census then eh ?
So no, I don't trust the government at all . I would quite happily hang the lot of them ... like I say they are all traitors so that should be their fate anyway.
cheers
Russ
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Your mistaken worzel. if the world goverments were trying population control they would stop vaccinating the third world. that action alone would have killed off millions if not more.
Its seems we have a numberof folks posting that would feel at home in montana. If you think our goverment is capable of such a thing then iam impressed by you faith in our goverment. After all they normally mess up everything they touch.
figures from cdc
DISEASE
Measles
Pneumonia: 6 in 100
Encephalitis: 1 in 1,000
Death: 2 in 1,000
2000 deaths per million.
Rubella
Congenital Rubella Syndrome: 1 in 4 (if woman becomes infected early in pregnancy)
VACCINES
MMR
Encephalitis or severe allergic reaction:
1 in 1,000,000
Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis vs. DTap Vaccine
DISEASE
Diphtheria
Death: 1 in 20
50,000 deaths per million
Tetanus
Death: 2 in 10
200,000 deaths per million
Pertussis
Pneumonia: 1 in 8
Encephalitis: 1 in 20
Death: 1 in 1,500
VACCINES
DTaP
Continuous crying, then full recovery: 1 in 1000
Convulsions or shock, then full recovery: 1 in 14,000
Acute encephalopathy: 0-10.5 in 1,000,000
Death: None proven
Rusty have you never had a tetanus injection.
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No-one is saying no vaccines....but the 'swine flu' vaccine was a different matter. We took an educated, informed decision not to have our kids vaccinated against it. It is not a decision I regret.
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because your kids were lucky. there were at times no high dependancy beds over the winter. lots of parents wishing they had.
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well we must be lucky as well :wave:
well we knew that anyway both of us should have been dead years ago :o :wave: long storys :wave:
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because your kids were lucky. there were at times no high dependency beds over the winter. lots of parents wishing they had.
Lots of kids get run over crossing the road...perhaps I should cover mine with bubble wrap. The head of the WHO never got vaccinated...do I need to say more??
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"because your kids were lucky. there were at times no high dependency beds over the winter. lots of parents wishing they had."
1 : the vast majority of the population were also 'lucky', as well as the vast majority of kids !!
2 : Perhaps if the government hadn't closed so many high dependency beds and general wards , there would have been more available at the time ?
3 : Lots of parents wishing they had ? been born in a time when government wasn't totally corrupt, and in the pay of pharmaceutical companies and the like ? ... yes quite probably so .
cheers
Russ
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i remember one guy at primary ran out the back of a combine gubed pan bread
another made a raft on the canal drowned
secondary school friend was hanged on a tarzie swing in the holidays
fatality's do occur bubble wrap does not help :wave:
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soooooo,
so far, swine flu is a disease with disturbing tendancies towards genocide created by 'government'
and the vaccine provided against it has disturbing tendancies towards genocide created by 'government'
your damned if you do and damned if you dont, really.
glad thats been cleared up lol.
it would seem tho, that the people on here who have had DIRECT contact with the serious illness swine flu is, ie seen a loved one unable to breath and in a coma, would have the jab. just what i said at the beginning.