The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: waterboy on April 04, 2011, 09:57:15 pm

Title: Wormer
Post by: waterboy on April 04, 2011, 09:57:15 pm
Hi all,

 The last couple of times Ive wormed the pigs Ive got the stuff from my vets i was wondering if i could purchase it over the counter so to speak and would it be a bit cheaper?

 I would prefer not to have to do injections if possible so either a liquid onto the skin or in/on food would be ideal, are there any particular makes or suppliers anyone could recommend

 

 Thanks Rob
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: supplies for smallholders on April 04, 2011, 10:13:55 pm
Firstly, do you need to worm? do a worm count, via your vet or a postal service.

Then when you know what you are dealing with find an appropriate wormer - lots of places online do them over the phone.

Thanks
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: oaklandspigs on April 04, 2011, 10:17:15 pm
We like the Panacur pellets.

http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf/store/products/panacur-15-pellets-25kg?_ (http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf/store/products/panacur-15-pellets-25kg?_)$ja=kw:%2bpanacur%20%2bpellets|cgn:PML+-+Cattle+Wormers+-+Panacur+1.5%25+Pellets+2.5KG|cgid:1940996914|tsid:23289|cn:PML+-+Cattle+Wormers+-+BRAND|cid:61402114|lid:21329033554|mt:Broad|nw:search|crid:6405064474&gclid=CMuS1v_jg6gCFcoa4QodR32nqw

Large bag, not much needed per pig, and lasts ages, but they don't seem to do a small bag.
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: Cobra on April 05, 2011, 05:15:45 pm
Same as Oaklands I bought Panacure from Mole Valley. Just short of £50 but good in date for a few years. How many pigs do you need to treat? and what weight are they.
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: waterboy on April 05, 2011, 05:57:45 pm
Ive got 2 sows aboout 18 stone give or take, 1 boar 16 stone ish and 6 youngsters 16 week old 20-30kg or so
 they are due for a weigh in but ive been putting it off for a bit
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: little blue on April 05, 2011, 09:43:53 pm
just done ours with Panacur liquid ... they looked rabid!
but from the vet at great expense....
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: HappyHippy on April 05, 2011, 09:51:44 pm
Does the Panacur treat external parasites too ?
If it's purely a wormer how do you guard against lice & mange ?
Karen x
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: little blue on April 05, 2011, 09:55:55 pm
Ivomectin  (Injectable - hate doing it!)
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: gavo on April 05, 2011, 10:46:27 pm
For external probs use a pour on they don't even know they've beeen treated unlike an injection, for internal probs we use panacaur pellets we buy a huge tub lasts for ages .
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: HappyHippy on April 05, 2011, 10:49:11 pm
LB - if you're treating with ivomectin then you shouldn't need an additional wormer (panacur etc) as the ivomectin, like the noromectin, treats internal & external parasites. Mange in a piglet, for example, can be a real problem if left untreated and can, in very extreme cases lead to death. http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/68/6/1495.pdf (http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/68/6/1495.pdf)
From what I can see Panacur only treats internal parasites - the only oral treatment I can see that does both is a noromectin pre-mix http://www.vetmedsdirect.co.uk/products/Noromectin-Premix-Pig-5kg.html (http://www.vetmedsdirect.co.uk/products/Noromectin-Premix-Pig-5kg.html) it's really expensive  :o

I hope this next comment doesn't upset anyone (and I apologise if it does, but feel I have to say it :-\) If you aren't prepared to inject your pig (or pay the vet to do it) then you shouldn't be keeping pigs - how are you going to keep them fit and healthy otherwise ? Please don't get me wrong - I don't like having to do it (and Bruce always does the boars ;)) but it's important for their health and welfare that they are treated EFFECTIVELY for internal & external parasites. It's not such a concern for folks who are just raising a few weaners for slaughter (providing, of course they've been wormed prior to you getting them) but anyone who's breeding should be keeping a medicines record and be sure they are treating on time and for the appropriate conditions.
Karen x
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: Cobra on April 06, 2011, 01:30:50 am
Ive got 2 sows aboout 18 stone give or take, 1 boar 16 stone ish and 6 youngsters 16 week old 20-30kg or so
 they are due for a weigh in but ive been putting it off for a bit

PM Sent
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: oaklandspigs on April 06, 2011, 07:45:18 am
If you don't have lice or mites at the moment you will only get then from bringing livestock in or bringing in  materials (eg straw) from a farm that has infected livestock near their straw.  If you do get it, once killed on your pigs and in their bedding , they don't survive in the environment.  Therefore if you are clear of external parasites there is no need to treat for them.

Therfore using a liquid, mix or pellets (such as Panacur as we do) that treats the internal parasites is a perfectly acceptable regime if you don't have lice/mites, and does save you from the hassle of injecting adult sows.



Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: supplies for smallholders on April 06, 2011, 09:18:57 am
Whatever wormer you choose to use, and there are lots out there, an important thing to remember is to change the type of wormer occasionally, and to correctly dose - never underdose.

Otherwise there is the chance of immunity being built up to the particular type of wormer.

ie. if you always use panacur and always have done, then you may find a panucur resistant strain of worm develops over a long period.

Immunity to wormers is becoming a very big problem on some farms.

Thanks
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: JulieS on April 06, 2011, 09:43:37 am
I use Dectomax for pigs from the vets. 

I invested in a Masterject......and found it's worth every penny.  Must less stressful for the pigs  :love: :pig: :love:
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: gavo on April 06, 2011, 02:17:50 pm
H.H

I MUST disagree with your comments re injecting pigs for external parasites there is absolutely nothing
wrong with external treatments [our vet advocates them for pigs  and they are very effective] pigs we have found have very long memories and will remember what an injection is all about; especially if it is regular thus making it very hard to get close for such things without restraining them and disressing them. We only ever inject for actual illness not routine health management and we find it leaves us with the most manageable docile Tams around; who when they do rarely need an injection allow me or the wife to do it where ever they are [wide open field or in their housing] .We have a healthy herd of pigs we don't have a parasite problem just because we don't routinely inject for such things.What works for you wont necessarily work for someone else and vice versa.
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: Hilarysmum on April 06, 2011, 02:37:23 pm
We inject - not me personally - for Digby we use a pour on as since the blood test he screams and cries at the sight of a needle.
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: Sylvia on April 06, 2011, 05:27:54 pm
Would you use a pour-on i.e. a systemic wormer for pigs you are going to eat
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: gavo on April 06, 2011, 07:07:11 pm
Our wormer is an oral one and yes we would use it on pigs we will eat BUT there would be a gap of several months from dosing to eating
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: little blue on April 06, 2011, 08:59:42 pm
just for the record...

1) My pigs have been treated with Ivomectin via injection.  I did not say I won't only that I hate doing it.
2) not one of them show any signs of external parasites.
3) the ages of them make it appropriate for a preventative treatment.
4) as I have posted previously, one is on the thin side.  The vet advised a wormer for all, then further investigation if needed.
5) using Ivo & panacur surely will reduce the resistance of worms (though I confess, I havent looked up the active ingredients)
6) Just for you Karen... I'd sooner inject my boar twice than wrestle with Maud - she has a looong memory whereas he is soft as grease!!

(And Karen, absolutely no offence taken here - I agree with you.  And you Oaklands)
 :)
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: Helencus on April 06, 2011, 09:24:32 pm
I use panacur pellets and these seem to be effective but SFS is correct as with all wormers you should change now and again to stop immunities building up. I also put diatom earth in with the straw bedding and shake a bit of louse powder over the pigs now and again If I  think they're scratching a lot never had any sign of external parasites but just in case.
I invested in a masterject when Kim had mastitis and although I wasn't keen at first I agree with JulieS it's worth it's weight now. I am totally comfortable if I need to inject any of them and it's over and done with before they realise, even the vet was impressed.
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: HappyHippy on April 06, 2011, 09:35:50 pm
No offence taken LB  :-* Everyone does things differently and that's why TAS works, we can give advice - it's not a who's right or who's wrong arguement. It's good to have a broad range of info.

Just as a quick aside, how is Murphy ? Did your vet suggest a worm count before worming for the second time ? I'm not questioning or doubting or wanting to start an arguement - just interested to know your thoughts and how the boy's doing of course ;) Our boar's a big sap too, but until I can jump a bit higher or trim those tusks I trust the job to Bruce (saw some scary photo's of an 'accidental' gore on a sow's leg and have been wary ever since) he has knee length work boots - I don't  :-\
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: little blue on April 07, 2011, 08:01:22 pm
Murphy is looking better - he seems to be filling out from the base up ... so his spine is still quite prominent but his belly looks bigger!
His mouth still shows no signs of being sore, but he is much slower with his food than the girls so is getting very special treatment.
the vet said they could worm count but on the whole, we may as well do them all (with the littl'uns being destined for the freezer, we have to get the timing right! it was their first worming)

thankyou for asking :)

I am hoping to post up a video, Murph is right on the edge of it ... but having just had a computor virus probably caught off photobucket or facebook, it may take awhile...
Title: Re: Wormer
Post by: supplies for smallholders on April 07, 2011, 09:34:40 pm
Little Blue - Just out of interest, do you intend moving them after worming?

Thanks