The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: nelson on March 23, 2011, 09:08:15 pm

Title: Limp piglet
Post by: nelson on March 23, 2011, 09:08:15 pm
Hi
Our berkshire piglets (11) are 10 days old today. By chance we were showing some folk the piglets and mum was about to feed them. Piglets responded to mums call and gradually left the creep until there were two remaining. One got up and nudged the other who didn't respond. We were looking from the stable door and decided to intervene. I gently poked the piglet but it didn't move so I picked it up and it was warm, eyes open but limp looking dead without obvious injury. I gave it to my husband and he put his finger in its mouth and it gasped and came back to normality and went on to feed with the others. Was it in a deep sleep? I have never come across this before. Scary moment  - has anyone encountered this before. Were we just lucky to be there? Anyway piglet perfect tonight.
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: doganjo on March 23, 2011, 10:35:35 pm
I'm only guessing but would it's heart be normal?  Could be an extra slow heart beat and might have got cold and died if you hadn't found it.  I'd keep an eye on it if you can identify it in some way.
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: nelson on March 24, 2011, 04:02:23 pm
Hi thanks for that - well exactly the same thing happened today same time. The piglet was lying with the rest of them - she looked like she was breathing - well I picked her up and she had her eyes open but was completely limp - she was quicker to respond this time - maybe I am being over anxious. She is the smallest. As you suggested all we can do is keep an eye on her. Other than that she is a lively piglet when not playing dead..
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: Hilarysmum on March 24, 2011, 04:18:37 pm
I've never heard of this before. 
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: nelson on March 24, 2011, 07:07:35 pm
New to us too  we have had many litters - we have had a few runts where there is difficulty getting to mum and we have had to give them a nudge but this is different. Will get the vet to take a look at her. She is a pretty little piglet.

Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: robert waddell on March 24, 2011, 07:34:57 pm
pigs have a habit of going into a trance or coma that is what they do when you tummy rub them even some succumb to this scratching there head
are they lying in a pile or cuddled together
are they under a heat lamp :wave:
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: nelson on March 24, 2011, 08:20:12 pm
Hi Lillian - A trance is what it looks like! and she is in a pile alternating between heat lamp and pile in the corner.  the plan is to get them all into the spring sunshine tomorrow, regardless.
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: Hilarysmum on March 25, 2011, 07:46:09 am
P h o  t  o  s                      please     
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: nelson on March 27, 2011, 01:30:47 pm
here they are now out in the sunshine and all thriving.
(http://)
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: doganjo on March 27, 2011, 01:40:47 pm
Beautiful eyelashes!  ;)
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: Hilarysmum on March 27, 2011, 02:16:36 pm
They really do have the ooooo factor in spades 
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: nelson on May 23, 2011, 09:35:17 pm
Well this is the limp piglet that caused us worry - pictured here with me today - delivered to her new home in the Dordogne. I am going to miss her :'(she went with 3 of her siblings).
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: Tudful Tamworths on May 23, 2011, 10:19:36 pm
Thanks for posting this. Good to hear the end of the story!
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: lill on May 24, 2011, 11:54:56 am
Hi nelson,
you have lovely piglets, can I ask, are they pedigree. If they are pedigree they should be notched, personally I do not agree with this and it is barbaric, but we have to stick to the rules until the BPA can change the system. :wave:
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: nelson on May 24, 2011, 01:28:21 pm
Hi lill  :wave:

Thank you.  I do have a pedigree Berkshire herd. This litter was sired by my purebred berkshire boar "Lucky" - Dam is pedigree. So not notched and unfortunately not able to birth notify.
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: chickenfeed on May 24, 2011, 04:10:33 pm
our hampshires were notched and when someone called to view the pigs they changed their pork order form hampshire to the unregistered saddleback x as they thought the practice was barbaric they were going to contact the bpa with their horror of such a act. i doubt they will hear back from the bpa.
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: HappyHippy on May 24, 2011, 06:05:30 pm
our hampshires were notched and when someone called to view the pigs they changed their pork order form hampshire to the unregistered saddleback x as they thought the practice was barbaric they were going to contact the bpa with their horror of such a act. i doubt they will hear back from the bpa.
I also agree that it's barbaric, especially when there's bound to be another alternative  :-\ It's not done for any kind of welfare or management reasons (in the way castration, teeth clipping, tail docking is) purely for ID  ::) What's wrong with an EID tag like sheep ? A tattoo with UV ink in the ear ? (You get UV inks for tattooing humans  ;))
I wonder, if it's just a coincidence that the Berkshire & Large Black breeds are in decline or if it may be in some way linked to this practice  ??? Given the choice of keeping a pig that you tattoo or one where you cut chunks out of piglets ears .... which would most folk choose ? I say this as someone who has Berkshires, Large Blacks and OSB's and will soom be breeding from them and faced with the question of 'to notch' or 'not to notch' - it's not a prosepct I relish  :'(
Karen  :wave:
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: SallyintNorth on May 24, 2011, 07:09:06 pm
Soooo... for the uninitiated, what happens to you and to your pigs if you decide not to notch?
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: lill on May 24, 2011, 07:24:52 pm
We can't be forced  to notch, but if we want to show them, then the breed rules must be followed. A tag can come out, a tattoo can fade away, but notching pigs correctly, there is no way of any mix up, (as long as you are able to understand what each notch means). I have been onto the breed reps regarding notching and nothing can be done until the BPA come up with a plan to do away with this barbaric practice. :pig: As long as the pigs are not being shown then tagging them is acceptable.
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: Berkshire Boy on May 25, 2011, 09:16:33 am
I have Berkshires and was not looking forward to notching when I started breeding. Once I had done it the first time and realised that the piglets don't even flinch when you do it I can't see the problem.
You all seem quite happy to force a plastic shaft through their ear can't see the difference myself. ::)
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: SallyintNorth on May 25, 2011, 09:43:46 am
You all seem quite happy to force a plastic shaft through their ear can't see the difference myself. ::)

As a person who forces a lot of plastic shafts through a lot of ears, I have to say that sounds like a good point.

Thanks for the explanation, lillian.  My only other question is, so does each breeder have their own notch?
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: HappyHippy on May 26, 2011, 03:50:41 pm
No, the notching relates to the pig Sally - and as far as I know (could be wrong though and would love to be corrected if I am) you can use any shape of notch you want.
Thing is - even though they're notched, they're tagged too  ::)
It's just that you can't show a pig that's double tagged according to BPA rules  ???
I really think they (The BPA) need to look at it again SOON and either re-write the rules or come up with an alternative.......... I feel a wee campaign coming on (again !)  ;)

Berkshire Boy - when do you notch yours ? My thinking is that under a week in age would be preferable to them being older ? Would welcome your advice  ;)

Karen  :wave:
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: Berkshire Boy on May 26, 2011, 06:36:37 pm
Hi Karen,
I usually notch by about 3 weeks but you can do it later as long as its before they are weaned or mixed with others. I have one to do thats 5 weeks but its not a problem.
You only cut into the ear 1/8 inch and usually no blood and they don't even flinch. I usually go in the pen and grab a piglet pass it out to my wife who holds it and I notch, over in seconds.
I only notch anything I am going to keep to breed from, sell as breeding or showing I don't bother with the ones going for meat. Its not too bad then as you may be only doing one from a litter.
When you birth notify the litter you are allocated numbers for each of the piglets if I'm only notching one I pick the number with the least amount of notches,it really isn't barbaric once you try it.
Steve
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: robert waddell on May 26, 2011, 07:19:13 pm
as far as i am aware there are two types of notch V and U                  it is depandant on the breed
now with the numbers i am under the impresion your birth numbers are a rolling counter and the males numbered before the females so how can you just pick a number that has the least amount of notches :farmer:
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: Tamsaddle on May 26, 2011, 08:59:12 pm
If you have 6 male piglets you can choose which one gets which of the six sequential numbers - so use the lowest notch numbers for good pigs worth registering, and vice versa.    19 is a horrible number to do on a Saddleback as it has 4 notches, but 20 has one notch.   I'm reluctantly coming round to the idea of marking with notching now - even if I don't want to show our pigs myself, anyone else we sell the pig to might want to do so, then the notching would be essential.   It is a relief to hear from Steve that the piglets don't seem to mind too much.
Title: Re: Limp piglet
Post by: Hilarysmum on May 27, 2011, 08:50:53 am
Our friends imported Large Blacks from UK, whose ears were notched.  On the veterinary inspection they got a rocket from the inspector who felt the whole thing was barbaric, and apparently illegal in France.  Now that must be a first, France accusing UK of barbaric animal practices.