The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: Shawn on March 17, 2011, 09:54:35 pm
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Hi i have had two Boer Goats and two Sheep for a couple of weeks and they have settled in great however when it comes to feeding time i am feeding goat mix and sheep food accordingly every night but the sheet like the goat food and visaversa will this do any harm and are they receiving enough which is about a kilo of each mix.
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Please say someone if I am wrong but I get course sheep feed for my goats and sheep which is supposed to be fine for all but I had it in the back of my mind that it didn't work the other way around - so check it out - someone more knowledgeable than me will post soon.
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Hi
I dont have any goats but i feed my sheep a goat mix that is also suitable for sheep as they love it and will not eat the sheep mix,dont know where abouts you are as its made local to me but im sure you will be able to find a mix suitable for both to eat.
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if there is traces of copper then the goat mix is unsuitable for sheep.
ok for goats to have sheep mix IF they access to copper eg from mineral licks
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Goats can eat sheep mix, but sheep shouldn't eat goat mix. Goats need higher quanties of copper than sheep, and the food is made according to this. Goats are ok on sheep mix especially if they are supplemented with a copper mineral, or cattle dairy nuts (which have a higher copper level as well). Too much copper is not good for sheep.
Beth
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thanks very much for the feedback i think i will go for the one feed for all.... I know i sound like a novice but thats because i am and i suppose we all have to start somewhere..... so heres the next stupid question do you do your own worming or is it best to get the vet in ? if own which is the best product for sheep and goats and how often ....
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OK worming - your supposed to rotate wormer over time at animals can get resilient - at present I'm using panacur for both sheep and goats - it's licenced for sheep but the vet told me to use 1.5 x sheep dose for goats but I have read 1.6 x on here I think but that's in the ball park - it's a drench so easy to do so on this occasion I'm sure you'll manage
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If your sheep and goats share pasture you will have to have ONE worming system for ALL. Get and initial worm count done (for each species separately), then start with a wormer recommended by the vet. Worming practices are different for different people and their individual set-ups, so if you are just starting out get advice from the vet. If you milk your goats you can only use Panacur during their lactation, ivermectins are not suitable.
Also include fluke treatment in your thinking. and yes goats are about 1.6 x sheep dose.
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i love the look of the boers, what are your plans for them? are you going to eat/breed them?
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Hello, I'm new on here and am about to bring 2 goatlings and potentially 4 kids back to my land. They are currently in Somerset!
One goatling is Anglo-Nubian X British Saanen and the other is Anglo-Nubian X British Toggenburg.
Both are in kid..
My problem is trying to figure out the best feed to give them all (obviously in varying quantities due to ages etc)
The nearest place to me only sells one goat mix and that Dodson & Horrell Goat mix which is molassed. Would this be a good one to go for are there much better alternatives. They will be getting hay, straw and a mineral lick plus all day access to pasture and playground (as yet to be constructed!) However I am quite happy to feed delivered by courier if its a better option.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Many thanks,
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Hello,
Congratulations on being about to get your first goats! Dodson and Horrell Goat mix is fine, we use it here as well. Although it is expensive, so we don't use just that, but use it for our pregnant goats/ milkers as an extra feed. You can feed them a sheep mix instead as stated above, but what might be best to start with, is find out what the current owner is feeding and try and get some of that. Then, you can start weaning them off what they are used to gradually, and start feeding what you find most convenient/easy to get.
Generally I would supplement them with some other things as well, especially when pregnant to give them some variety. Soaked sugar beetpulp is good, also you can get various alflafa or dried grass products which they like. Some veggies usually go down well too.
Beth
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Hi!
this is great. Seeing is a two of them are in kid the molassed mix probably wouldn't be too bad. plus the wee ones are only nibbling, not really eating it. I have already arranged to have a bag of the nuts that they are currently on so that I can introduce the new feed gradually.
Do you mean the sugar beet flakes that you can get for horses? Having had horses previously I gave them that too but I was very aware of trying to keep excess sugar out of their diet in order to banish any sore feet. I starting to see that it's not like that with goats! I can get Alfalfa locally, but again, molassed or non-molassed? I have already spoke to the neighbours and all are wanting to contribute veg peelings (with the exception of onions, citrus, kale etc)! Bless them!
What quantities do you feed of the D&H mix??
Many thanks.
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During most of the beginning of the pregancy, they just get their standard amount- for two living together about 1 scoop of mix (sheep mix), plus some barley and some dairy nuts morning and night. Then in the last 6-7 weeks, start to increase how much they get gradually, by a 1/4 of a scoop at a time. Thats when we start giving goatlings some goat mix. By the time they kid we are giving them about 2 scoops morning and night, each, as opposed to together. We also give them an extra feed at 5pm, either alfalfa, chopped up veg (carrot, apple & cabbage), or soaked beetpulp.
For the alfalfa- either molassed or un-molassed, we have fed both, they seem to like the molassed stuff better. We also feed cattle dairy nuts- if yours are used to nuts, then it might be worth seeing if you can get hold of some.
Beth
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I stopped feeding any of the goat mixes when I discovered the mineral content is designed not to hurt sheep if they accidentally eat it.
Goats require almost identical amounts of copper as a cow and as most of UK is copper deficient, it makes senses to use cattle dairy nuts. Considerably cheaper than goat mixes by up to £3 a bag in some cases.
I also use sugar beet pellets or shreds both soaked and dry. My girls decline alfalfa.
This subject is one that evrybody has an opinion, but if you keep it basic with plenty of forage available at all times, then you won't go wrong.
Be warned.... some goats won't touch mineral licks or food that has had mineral powder added. Another reason to feed cattle food that has it all included.
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Shawn, if your goats are pets rather than potential milkers (or dinners!) they won't need a lot of grain. Particularly if they are wethers and some schools of thought say" NO grain" to help avoid stones in their waterworks (UC). Personally, we feel it would be mean of us not to feed the males when the girls are being fed so they have just a mug full of mainly rolled oats with a sprinkle of mollassed feed just so they don't feel deprived. But they don't really need it provided they have access to lots of hay. That's the same sort of mix that we give our sheep too.
I'm not saying this is the case for pregnant or lactating females or growing youngsters though (before you all jump on me!!)
All the goats and sheep have access to red Rockies which contain a certain amount of copper and the sheep don't seem to have come to any harm although I do see them having the occasional nibble. It can't be too harmful as we have just lost one of our original sheep at the age of 15 and her friend of the same age is still going strong!
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Not only do my goats like sheep mix and the sheep like the goat food but all the chickens like goat food and the goats mostly prefer chicken food :D
I think you're getting it about right if they're growing or milking - otherwise as fruitfarm says, they probably don't need as much as a kilo. See how they're going, if they get 'rolls' at the side of their tail base and you can't feel their ribs, they're getting too fat ;)
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I feed organic smallholders mix from B & W Feeds in Dorset - if you google them, they will probably say where you can get it from in Somerset. Very happy with it and i have a mineral lick too (not that they seem to like it very much!)
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i love the look of the boers, what are your plans for them? are you going to eat/breed them?
they are currently 11 months old so we hope to keep these two for life and breed from them we will then take the offspring to slaughter. They are fantastic animals they want to know what you are doing all of the time and they follow every step you take when you are in the field with them.... Fab purchase glade i done it....
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Hi, as if you haven't had enough advice already - but anyway - I feed my goats our ewe and lamb mix and some flaked maize (which they love) - we also give both the sheep and the goats lots and lots of branches from our trees - they are especially mad for fruit tree branches - they also love borage (given in small doses) which grows like weeds, the tree bark is great though - when they see us coming in with big branches they get super excited! Good luck!
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Oh for Pete's sake!
They travelled well to their new home, went into the stable, had a wee, had a poo, drank some water and have been eating the hay plentifully but are showing no interest whatsoever in their new feed.
I made up a very small amount of D&H Goat mix with un-molassed Alfalfa. Completely turned their noses up at it.
Is this normal, should I be concerned? It doesn't help that the home they have come from wouldn't let me take any of their current food with them so that I could gradually introduce the alternative feed.
Help!
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What did they feed at the old home? Did you mention cubes?
I would try and get something similar to what they had before, even if you only get a couple of bags to get them started on.
They might have just been tired out from the travelling, and not interested at that time. They had a drink which is good- I would have left them with just water and hay initially and let them settle for bit before offeriung hard food.
Beth
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goats can take a while for their digestion system to settle into a change of feed - I must say I'm surprised that the previous owners didnt take this into account, even if they had charged you for the food ?!
I agree completely with Beth, hay & time ... :)
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Oh for Pete's sake!
... It doesn't help that the home they have come from wouldn't let me take any of their current food with them so that I could gradually introduce the alternative feed.
Help!
I would have thought that breeders would have given you enough for a few days to help them settle-in :o
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Ok, time for an update.
They still have not gone for any of their feed but just seem to be loving this hay, and I mean loving it! I have spoken to the company that manufactures their original feed and although they actually make it by the tonne specifically for the farm that they were on they are going to sell me two bags just so that I can be giving them a) something that I know they eat and b) start introducing them to something new!
organised
Beewyched I know where you're coming from on this, that is exactly what I was hoping to do. I even took down a big empty feed bag so that I could bring a load back with me but unfortunately there was a whole load of confusion and rush on the day that I collected them and it was not to be. She isn't a breeder as such but a dairy farm and the girls were given to me by way of payment for my hard work! Which I was absolutely chuffed to bits about as I fell in love them whilst I was working there. However I would have liked to have been more but these things never happen how you envisage them to!
I just hope they started eating soon, it's more that they are in kid that concerns me. Well, that they are in kid and not eating. I suppose I should view the fact that they are chomping on the hay as a positive though. And I have to say I am almost tempted to eat this hay, it has to be the most beautiful hay I have ever seen! They make it on the farm and it is immaculate. Full of a variety of grass and wild herbs (all of which I have double checked are suitable to goats) and as yet I have not seen any dust from it. All of the above = goats with their heads buried in it!
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Glad they are eating hay, but as you say it is the fact that they are pregnant that is the worry. When are they due? Its only the last 6-8 weeks they really need the extra protein, so if they still have a while to go it shouldn't be too bad.
Glad you will be getting some of their original food. You could try getting some soya been meal- it is very high in protein, so even if they only eat a tiny amount it will keep up their protein levels.
Beth
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For some strange reason, a lot of animals won't eat D & H feed.
My horses won't touch it... and that in particular goes for one who would eat a house brick if you said it was food !!!
Tries my goat on it with the same reaction.
As your girls were on dairy unit, it is likely they were fed cattle nuts/cubes. In fact cattle feed is better for goats anyway as it contains the right amount of copper. Copper is vital to certain ruminants for cell structure , liver function etc and goats certainly fall into this category.
Cattle food is very cheap by comparison with D & H feed. Expensive is not always the best.!!!!!
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I'm starting to feel like they will never eat!
Thanks, Ballingall and Wytsend all of this is so helpful. In terms of kidding I have been told that they are due to kid end of april beginning of May, but Gordon George who transported them and also the Farmer onsite here who has many many years of lambing experience, they both reckon that Tweedle Dee, the slightly larger and chocolate coloured one will kid earlier than that.
I think I'm just going to buy some cattle nuts that are as near as possible to the original feed to see if that will work. Although I am getting some of the original feed, because it is made especially for the previous own they aren't doing another lot until Tuesday and then I have to go collect it from somerset. The things we do for our animals! Totally and 100% worth it though, I just want to see them eat, even if they only eat one nut!
They really do not to know about the D&H or the afalfa, I've tried them together, I've tried them separate. But it doesn't seem to make a difference. First thing monday morning (my local place isn't open on a sat afternoon or a sunday) I will go get the Cattle nuts. Thinking aloud I might try the next nearest if it is open on a sunday, the sooner I get some into them the better, we're now on day 3 of no concentrate!
I'm just about to pop down to see them now. Can't wait to see them both.
Oh also I took veg peelings down to them and they didn't want those either, is there a particular fruit or veg that is more palatable than others?
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If they are not used to fruit & Veg, they won't touch it.
They will eat cattle nuts.... be sure to get dairy nuts only, not beef nuts.
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Good luck with getting them to eat - hope they like the cattle nuts, though it's good they love their hay too.
Mine will eat ivy (small quantities only though, too much is poisonous), cauliflower leaves, sultanas, chicken layers pellets, chocolate digestives.... And they like Smallholders dairy goat mix.
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I can't believe how perfect the timing of your pot was Jaykay! The girls have got a small paddock that I am turning them out in for a few hours each day, it's so lovely to se them running around! It works well as it would have originally been the garden wall for the old farmhouse. It have been used as a paddock for many years but due to it having a solid brick wall around it they can't escape.... except for one small area which has a bit of a hole. the job this weekend is to patch it up!
There is however, some ivy growing on one part of the wall, and they seem to love it. I quickly got them off it until I could work out whether it is poisonous to them or not. Google was not my friend in my search so to come on here and see you had mentioned it was uncanny! They really seem to like it as they went straight for it again today even though I put in copious amounts of this lovely hay for them. Why do they go for it when they are so good at avoiding the stuff that's bad for them?
I think I shall have to fence that bit off when we do the wall....
the smallholder feed, is that the allen and page one?
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May be worth getting in touch with this company- You could ask if they supply near you.
http://www.ianson.co.uk/products/coarse-rations (http://www.ianson.co.uk/products/coarse-rations)
I was put on to them by my local country store. Ianson supplies feed to this store and they do a course mix suitable for cows AND goats and it's £10 for 25kg.
I think when I get my goats I may wean them onto this. I know my friend uses the sheep mix for her Shetlands and the sheep which I have fed LOVE it!
Just to add- they say they do a course mix which can be fed to all ruminants- one for cattle, goats and sheep- But advise a mineral lick- in my area the land is copper deficient so I would have a lick anyway.
Seems a good price though.